D&D 5E How do accuracy and power interact for Blade Pact Warlocks?

Warpiglet · Feb 21, 2017

I am an unabashed fan of the Blade Pact Warlock. I cannot help it. And frankly, I am well versed in the good, the bad, the ugly and workarounds for these issues.

The recent inclusion of the Hexblade in UA opened a whole new area of consideration for me. How do I balance hitting hard and hitting accurately?

If I have a hex (normal or hexblade version) or other augmentation from spells, is the risk with Great Weapon Master worth the payoff? This question comes into focus when we look at the Hexblade’s ability to use Charisma with one handed weapons. If I use a one handed weapon and say pump it up with hex and perhaps an improved pact weapon invocation, am I risking too much by swinging for the fences with Great Weapon Master? Each miss in the latter case is also missing with hex and other augmentation.

I realize over time, things “even out” if the target armor class is sufficiently high. But doesn’t it hurt more, aren’t we risking more if we miss with a pumped up attack?

Is it worth extra invocations such as curse bringer to get a two handed weapon online? Is it really that much weaker to hit more reliability with pumped up attacks? Consider too that at 12^th we would have lifedrinker and thirsting blade online. Each miss is a bigger loss in a sense.

I am interested in anyone’s thoughts about this and the rationale for their choice.
My only caveat is this: I may simply go with what looks and feels cool. I have thought about a suboptimal mace as the pact weapon because I think evil looking maces are fun! Thanks in advance for your perspectives....

TwoSix · Feb 21, 2017

I personally prefer Hexblade as a switch hitter. Focus on Charisma, use eldritch blast at range (with shadow hound), then move up with a one hander and shield. A hexblade might be one of the cases where dual-wielding or polearm master could really pay off, since you'll be able to stack hex damage, hexblade curse damage, and lifedrinker all on the bonus action attack (much better than Burning/Chilling Hex). A bonus action for a 13th level hexblade could easily be 1d4+1d6+15 for a hexed, cursed target.

Warpiglet · Feb 21, 2017

I thought about this as well. If I go this route, I would probably want agonizing blast in place of curse bringer. With thirsting blade at fifth, there is only one open invocation. Perhaps improved pact weapon would work though I like at least some utility.

TwoSix · Feb 21, 2017

Yea, thirsting blade, agonizing blast, pact weapon (trading up when you can) and life drinker are the big ones. 2 at the start, than trade one out at 5th for agonizing blast and your third slot for thirsting blade. I'd probably go:

2 - Misty Visions (my favorite invocation), Fiendish Vigor
5 - Trade Fiendish Vigor for Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade
7 - Improved Pact Weapon
9 - Trade Improved Pact Weapon for Superior Pact Weapon, Ascendant Step (another invocation I love)
12 - Life Drinker

Warpiglet · Feb 21, 2017

TwoSix said:
Yea, thirsting blade, agonizing blast, pact weapon (trading up when you can) and life drinker are the big ones. 2 at the start, than trade one out at 5th for agonizing blast and your third slot for thirsting blade. I'd probably go:

2 - Misty Visions (my favorite invocation), Fiendish Vigor
5 - Trade Fiendish Vigor for Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade
7 - Improved Pact Weapon
9 - Trade Improved Pact Weapon for Superior Pact Weapon, Ascendant Step (another invocation I love)
12 - Life Drinker

In fact, I think misty visions is totally underrated and I hate not taking it. It is creepy warlocky goodness and potentially very helpful.

This goes to my earlier questions. No other class (for me) offers more painful decisions that the warlock. Not only does spell selection, feat selection (now lessened for bladelocks!) hurt, but the invocation choices are the worst of all.

To go all in on melee means neglecting utility. I never get the utility melee balance just right....

lowkey13 · Feb 21, 2017

*Deleted by user*

TwoSix · Feb 21, 2017

lowkey13 said:
Bingo!

The thing about the Warlock is that you can make so many awesome and viable builds, but you are constantly reminded of what you are giving up. Because the Warlock can be awesome in so many ways ... utility, stealth, control, bladelock, etc.

...and yet, yada yada yada here's another EB+Hex spammer.

Yep. Warlock and Rogue are my two picks for the best designed 5e classes, no doubt.

Warpiglet · Feb 21, 2017

lowkey13 said:
Bingo!

The thing about the Warlock is that you can make so many awesome and viable builds, but you are constantly reminded of what you are giving up. Because the Warlock can be awesome in so many ways ... utility, stealth, control, bladelock, etc.

...and yet, yada yada yada here's another EB+Hex spammer.

I have often not taken hex actually since the spell slots are so hard to come by. I am more excited about something more dramatic. Additionally, I really struggle against spamming EB because it is not why I want to play a blade pact warlock. But to each their own. Many people that complain about warlocks being boring are making one trick ponies.

If you have an agreeable DM, Misty visions can be encounter changing. The same can be said for mask of many faces. Most recently I took magic initiate feat at first and disguise self as a sorcerer spell. I then took misty visions invocation, minor image cantrip and ultimately thirsting blade.

All told, I have a cool fighter illusionist flavor. I do use EB as my range weapon and like that I can soften up targets (now multiple ones) before closing for melee.

You can really make the warlock what you want them to be. You can also easily make a very creepy stealthy witch as noted by others.

My struggle is choosing. I often do not go all in so to speak. With a hexblade I want some utility with the heavy hitting.

FormerlyHemlock · Feb 21, 2017

Warpiglet said:
If I use a one handed weapon and say pump it up with hex and perhaps an improved pact weapon invocation, am I risking too much by swinging for the fences with Great Weapon Master? Each miss in the latter case is also missing with hex and other augmentation.

It doesn't matter. There are no one-handed heavy weapons, and therefore you will never have the option to use GWM in this situation.

Caliban · Feb 21, 2017

My preference is the tanklock version of the pact blade. Fiend Patron, Max out Strength first (16 or 17 with feat), charisma is usually a 14 to begin with. Variant human, feat: Heavy Armor Master (+1 str, DR 3). First level is fighter, the rest are Warlock. Wear plate, use a heavy weapon (Greatsword, Greataxe, Maul). Take Great Weapon Master when you can (either at level 5, or level 9).

You focus on using Armor of Agathys and various damage reduction techniques (DR 3 from Heavy Armor Mastery, Blade ward when appropriate, etc), and lay into them with your weapon, daring them to hit you. By the time they eat through your Armor of Agathys you should be starting to drop them, giving you renewing temp HP.

Upside: an incredibly resilient tank at low levels, and strong up through at least lvl 10. Fantastic against hordes of mooks.

Downside: Weaker against ranged attacks, and single boss monsters. I also suspect your lower AC will be a bigger issue above level 10 when the big monsters start hitting incredibly hard.