Conversion help - critique my stat blocks for Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave

SatanasOz · Nov 12, 2018

I am currently running Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave for a group of 5-6 players. They are of the level recomended by the adventure (5th in Chapter 3 now) and I am roughly sticking to the CRs of the monsters published in the Adventure. So far (chapter 1 & 2), it has been working out pretty well. I re-skinned a lot of monsters, build some NPC with character levels. But this next section has a lot of statted NPC, so I am looking for feedback on wether I am still somewhat apropriate for the CR / Level range.
So I would start off with the first two listed encounters:

Encounter L1 - Gatehouse attack
[sblock]

1x Will-o'-wisp - was CR6, will use 1 or 2 W-o'-w from the MM (CR2) instead
2x Gatehouse Guards CR1 - Roguish types, will re-skin the Spy from MM (CR1)
2x Shadowslain Lizardfolk CR2 - Baseline mook from the Shadowslain faction. Used a lizardfolk, made it undead and added special abilities. see statt block below.

[/sblock]

Encounter L1A - Gatehouse Defense
[sblock]

3x Shadar-Kai CR1 - baseline shadar-kai based on the drow from MM plus special abilites based on 3.5E and other homebrew. I did not use the Mordenkainen's version, since it seems thematically too different from 3.5 Forgotten Realms as described in the adventure. See statblock below.
1x Kithguard Maurran CR5 - upscaled shadar-kai combined with the master thief from Volo's. See statblock below.

[/sblock]

Encounter L2 - Main Courtyard
[sblock]

5x Shadowslain Lizardfolk CR2 - See first post.
1x Starweaver Bestara Monscroll CR5 - Human Cleric 5 Shar. Build as a statted human cleric 5 (Trickery Domain). I have the feeling this one is a bit on the weak side for CR5. See stat block below.

[/sblock]

Encounter L3 - Entry
[sblock]

3x human evoker (Dava, Mendios, and Zephan) CR1 - Replaced with Wizard Apprentice (VGM) CR 1/4. I am not worried about the lower CR, these poor dominated victims and the PCs should feel bad if they kill them outright.
1x Halish (human cleric) CR3 - Priest from MM CR 2 - same as for the evorkers, I am not worried about the CR. If the PCs kill them, shame on them.

[/sblock]
Encounter L7 - Great Hall
[sblock]

5x Shadowslain Lizardfolk CR 2 - see above.
Ketsarra Shadowscale (shadowslain half-black dragon lizardfolk cleric 4) CR 6 - Well, that was a mouth full in 3rd edition. I started from the MM half-red dragon and added Shadowslain features. In turn, I skipped the character levels in favour of more streamlined mechanics, making her a Fighter type primarily. See stat block below.
Kithlord Thieraven (shadar-kai sorcerer 6) CR6 - I am changing this out for a half-elven wizard for story reasons. This will be the brother of one of my PCs. I used Rath Modar from Rise of Tiamat as a baseline, changed out spells and made him a half-elf. See stat block below.

[/sblock]

Encounter L8 - Great Tower
[sblock]

Shadow Mastif CR3 - just swapped out with a Shadow Mastif (VgM) CR2, should be fine
2x Shadar-Kai CR1 - See stat block above in L1A
2x Shadowslain Lizardfolk CR2 - see stat block above in L1

[/sblock]
Encounter L9 - Great Tower
[sblock]

Khumat (outsider[extraplanar]) CR8 - Even though this is supposed to be a shadow crocodile creatue, 3.5 stats are for a straight up bruiser with some damage resistance. Replaced with a Hezrou (MM) CR8 - only change is to remove Stench and add a paralizing grapple (like an Otyugh) to the bite attack: "If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 14) and restrained until the grapple ends."
3x Lizardfolk (exhausted) CR1, potential ally - Lizardfolk (MM) CR 1/2 with 3 levels of exhaustion
Chieftain Gathan (exhausted) CR3, potential ally - Lizardfolk King (MM) CR4 with 3 levels of exhaustion
Ashala (exhausted) CR3, potential ally - Lizardfolk Shaman (MM) CR2 with 3 levels of exhaustion

[/sblock]

aco175 · Nov 12, 2018

The CR seems a bit high for some of the monsters. The lizardfolk one with 4HD and +4 to hit could be a CR1, even with multiattack. Sometimes I think there should be a CR 1.5 for in-between monsters. When I'm in doubt, I go with the lesser CR since my players and PCs tend to be more powerful, or at least they seem it compared to other stuff I see.

SatanasOz · Nov 12, 2018

aco175 said:
The CR seems a bit high for some of the monsters. The lizardfolk one with 4HD and +4 to hit could be a CR1, even with multiattack. Sometimes I think there should be a CR 1.5 for in-between monsters.

I mean I am open to juice them up a bit more. I just don't neccecarily want to push the HD too far, since they are quite plentiful, and even at lv. 5, killing 7 of them should not feel like a chore but more like 4E style minions.

The orginal monster in 3.5 had weave drain as an automatic effect, without any save. I am tempted to go there as well, but I am afraight to make it "unfun" and railroad-y.

I could start by pushing HD and attack bonus to +5. Any other tips to bring it in line with the suggested CR 2?

Eltab · Nov 12, 2018

Keep the save on the Weave Drain. Give him a bigger aura where arcane casters recognize "something is wrong and HE's the center of it".
This may be done via an Arcana check. To make it meaningful, it takes an Action or a Bonus Action to figure out the aura.

If your players are getting into the Weave aspect, you might add a foe who can cast Weave Drain on them, as if it were a ranged spell. (I was … erm, overshadowed … by the Shadowlands aspect of the module when I read through it. But it sounded like fun to play out.)

Eltab · Nov 12, 2018

P.S. If you look at the bottom of the page, you should see a few other threads -dated 2007 - discussing that adventure. You might find helpful tips there, although I haven't looked myself.

SatanasOz · Nov 13, 2018

Eltab said:
Keep the save on the Weave Drain. Give him a bigger aura where arcane casters recognize "something is wrong and HE's the center of it".
This may be done via an Arcana check. To make it meaningful, it takes an Action or a Bonus Action to figure out the aura.

If your players are getting into the Weave aspect, you might add a foe who can cast Weave Drain on them, as if it were a ranged spell. (I was … erm, overshadowed … by the Shadowlands aspect of the module when I read through it. But it sounded like fun to play out.)

Sounds good, and it does not really change the CR. Might hold back on giving Weave Drain as a targeted ability. There are a lot of bespoke abilities in the book, probalby more fun to convert them and keep things fresh. But it might be something for the Shadowslain boss Ketsarra in the final encounter. She was originally a Cleric, but seems to be overboard with abilities if build as an upscaled monster plus class levels. I will post my draft of that encounter later on, have a look.

Eltab said:
P.S. If you look at the bottom of the page, you should see a few other threads -dated 2007 - discussing that adventure. You might find helpful tips there, although I haven't looked myself.

Jea, did not find too many useful tips for what I am doing. The only 5E conversion I found was to a much higher CR / Level range. The reception on the old aventure were pretty positive, from what I could find. Not much to fix or prop up with the encounters (one would hope they had figured it out by then, this beeing towards the end of 3.5).

SatanasOz · Nov 13, 2018

OK, I have changed out the shadowslain based on aco175's input. Any other suggestions for L1 and L1A? There is only one additional stat block required for the next encounter, so let's keep going ...

Encounter L2 - Main Courtyard

5x Shadowslain Lizardfolk CR2 - See first post.
1x Starweaver Bestara Monscroll CR5 - Human Cleric 5 Shar. Build as a statted human cleric 5 (Trickery Domain). I have the feeling this one is a bit on the weak side for CR5. See stat block below.

Quickleaf · Nov 13, 2018

[MENTION=82832]SatanasOz[/MENTION]

Shadowslain Lizardfolk

Defensive CR = 1/2
effective HP = 27 + 15 from Weave Drain (which is like Regeneration 5) = 42
AC 15

Offensive CR = 2
DPR 10
Attack +5

Total CR = (0.5 + 2) / 2 = 1.25

You're within rights to round up to CR 2 if you feel Weave Drain merits it. Checks out.

Shadar-kai

Defensive CR = 1
HP = 17
effective AC = 15 + 4 saving throws + 1 shadow jaunt/hide in plain sight (like one round of goblin's Nimble Escape) = 20

Offensive CR = 2
DPR = (8 + 8 + 13) / 3 = 9.7
Attack = (4 + 4 + 9) / 3 = 5.7 (I'll say +5)

Total CR = (1 + 2) / 2 = 1.5
Making it CR 1 seems like a good choice. Checks out.

Kithguard Marran

Defensive CR = 7
effective HP = 55 + 18 (Uncanny Dodge used three times against an attack dealing 12 damage) = 73
effective AC = 16 + 4 saving throws + 4 Cunning Action (like goblin's Nimble Escape) + 1 (combined effect of Hide in Plain Sight, Evasion, and Shadow Jaunt) = 25

Offensive CR = 5
DPR = (20 + 10 + 10) / 3 = 13.3
effective Attack = 8 + 4 (Cunning Action like goblin's Nimble Escape) = +12

Total CR = (7 + 5) / 2 = 6
Might want to increase this one's CR by 1 (for whatever that's worth), but you're in the right ballpark.

Tormyr · Nov 13, 2018

It isn't really CR related, but I feal like Weave Drain should be a Charisma saving throw.

What is CR related is that monster abilities that trigger a saving throw usually set the DC to an ability score modifier + Prof + 8 (in certain extreme cases double proficiency). The Shadowslain's most relevant ability seems to be Charisma, that would make the DC for Weave Drain 8 + 2 - 2 = 8, which seems more appropriate if the heroes are going to fight more than half a dozen of them down the road. You also might run into a bit of a game slowdown here. If a hero starts within 10 feet of half a dozen of them, that is a lot of saving throws they suddenly have to make at the start of their turn.

SatanasOz · Nov 13, 2018

Quickleaf said:
[MENTION=82832]SatanasOz[/MENTION]

...

Might want to increase this one's CR by 1 (for whatever that's worth), but you're in the right ballpark.

Thanks heaps for that already. Sounds good then. I think i might tune down Kithguard Marran a little bit then - maybe 8HD and bring the main weapon attack in line with the ranged to a +7 (ignoring the magic weapon).

I see the proficiency in all saves adds a lot to the defensive CR calculation, but I am not quite sure how else to simulate or convert the Gal-Ralan item from 3.5 (bracers giving +1 to +5 to saving throws. This character had the +2 version originally). I like the fluff - that they are wearing enchanted bracelets to "keep the soul from slipping back into the plane of shadows" and would like to have some element carried over into the stat block.

Final question for [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION]: Is there a calculator you are using for these breakdowns, or just quick math by hand based on the guidelines?

Conversion help - critique my stat blocks for Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave

SatanasOz

Explorer

aco175

Legend

SatanasOz

Explorer

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer

SatanasOz

Explorer

SatanasOz

Explorer

Quickleaf

Legend

Tormyr

Adventurer

SatanasOz

Explorer

Similar Threads