D&D 5E How To Darksun

TLDR version. Grim, survival, psionics, magic is rare and mysterious, Sorcerer Kings are nasty, ignore Prism Pentad/2E metaplot and 4E version.

This thread is about how I would run a Darksun campaign. I might do some others for other themed based games and/or campaign settings. Generally I am an originalist when it comes to D&D settings, this is because I do not like the meta plot TSR and WotC have come up with and it often ruins whatever attracted you to the setting in the 1st place. Darksun was ruined by the Prism Pentad books IMHO. However DS is not the only setting to deal with things like his (Grand conjunction, Time of Troubles/Spellplague, everything after the War of the Lance, Unhuman War etc etc etc).


This means I tend to prefer the settings close to when they were published and material that enhances the setting over material that moves a metaplot along. This is something I like that Paizo has done with Golarion, invent a interesting setting and don't ruin it (over exposed perhaps a'la FR). Rather than make drastic changes to a setting I prefer that designers create something new, for example Nerath was not awful by itself but they recycled/changed enough of the setting to upset people of the older D&D lore. New lore is fine, retcons not so much. To get a good handle on Darksun I like the original boxed set and the short story A Little Knowledge". Major themes of Darksun IMHO.

1. The Environment. Athas is a wasteland.
2. Resources are limited (water, metal etc)
3. Magic (arcane) can ruin the land.
4. Knowledge of the past and magic is rare/limited. The magic power level is still fairly high.
5. Psionics. All PCs are psionic along with a lot of the NPCs and monster.
6. Slavery. Slavery is widespread.
7. The Sorcerer Kings. The 7 cities are rules by immortal despots.

Overall generally a dark and gritty place almost grimdark. Despite being a desert Darksun is not D&D Arabian Nights, this is a major factor why I thought the 4E Darksun missed the target with their conversion along with various other things such as healing surges which I thought were silly full stop in the context of Athas. Major hazards of course are the environment with a lack of water and silt being big ones although PCs often have ways to get around water requirements even in 2E (magic, psionic, proficiency etc) the idea however is you have to devote resources to that goal.

Reading through the old Darksun adventures its fairly obvious who the villains are- defilers, Templars,slavers and the Sorcerer Kings. Athas has The Dragon as well, but he is best used as a plot device like the Demon Lord in out of the Abyss so the PCs can encounter him early on but do not have to fight him. How tough in the Dragon? In 2E he was one of the most powerful NPC's published with perhaps a few avatars from Forgotten Realms being tougher. In 5E terms think of the CR 30 Tiamat from RoT, but adding level 20 wizard and psionic abilities (latter tweaked to level 30). He was more powerful than the 2E Powers and Pantheons Tiamat avatar.

Even in 2E they had a lot of classes available (200+) but Darksun was fairly minimalist, they rewrote the PHB classes and the only new class they added was the trader which is better off as a background in 5E. Other classes such as Templars and Gladiators were tweaks of the 2E PHB classes or archetypes in 5E terms. Out of the extra classes in non DS the only ones I would have added to the setting would be the Barbarian which was very different from the d20 Barbarian.

Races were also limited with some from the PHB being excluded and new ones tended to be reptilian, avian and insecticoid in appearance. Once again less is more IMHO, Darksun was never designed as a kitchen sink setting I would suggest looking at Mystara, Eberron and Spelljammer for those types of settings. Most of the 5E archetypes do not really fit the Darksun setting in my conversions I allow around a dozen classes and a smaller number of races more or less being limited to the original Darksun boxed set. Any new additions to the setting need to make sense such as Yuan Ti purebloods are reptilian, psionic and Yuan-Ti exist on Athas. Drow really do not make any sense either along with things like Warforged for example. Neither do Dragonborn IMHO, and while 4E retconned them in as Dray the way they did it was ham fisted IMHO. Dragonmen do not really fit Darksun either IMHO and at best should be added only if you do the events of City by the Sea of Silt adventure. Otherwise they have no business being an everyday race hanging out on the surface. Other races do not exist due to being wiped out or not existing in the 1st place. With Darksun I think less is more in terms of class and race options. It also helps the setting stand out and raises questions like "Why no Half Orcs/Orcs, and where do Half Giants originate from".

While Darksun has grimdark elements, I think the goal of the campaign would make sense to make the world a better place even if its just a small Druids grove where the PCs can rest up and funnel rescued slaves to the free villages scattered around Athas. PCs can even challenge the Sorcerer Kings and The Dragon perhaps recycling elements of the Prism Pentad but having the PCs as the protagonists instead of the events of the Prism Pentad. I would probably keep the original backstory and ancient past of Darksun changing it perhaps f the PCs are familiar with the events of the prism Pentad or set the game in a different timeline to the original set, perhaps at the start of Kalak constructing his pyramid or long after the events of the Prism Pentad. Darkun is harsh but I would not go out of the way to kill the PCs off as such but I would punish them harshly for being stupid. By being stupid I mean casting arcane spells for example in public in one of the domains of the Sorcerer Kings/Queens or picking fights with Templars. I would trow out the 5E guidelines for encounters. For example if you chop up a patrol of Templars they will mobilise and send out squads of elite Templars or even arch Templars and if the PCs are powerful enough(level 10+) perhaps even a Sorcerer King and his favourite pets can make an appearance if the regular Templars can't deal with the PCs. Darksun is not fair if you encounter the Dragon at 5th level so be it perhaps the beast has a task or demands tribute, or can even be entertained.

Exploration is also a major theme of Athas perhaps moreso than most settings. There are a lot of ruins in a reasonably small area, the Tyr region is a lot smaller than the Sword Coast. I treat Athas like an onion, peeling back layers to discover what lies beneath. Survival DCs are generally higher than default 5E, but you should be able to mitigate them in various ways such as strapping a barrel of water to the PC Half Giant perhaps. Until raiders broach it anyway. The past can also be changed over the official metaplot I think I would keep major elements of it (Cleansing Wars, ancient Halflings) but perhaps change the details.

And that is more or less it, ATM I am working on a conversion with the end goal of making some Athasian archetypes, feats and races but for now recycling as much as I can of the PHB just limiting a lot of the options. Of course mechanics need to be tweaked but IMHO the setting should faithfully duplicate the feel of the 1991 boxed set. Rather than pick up where the setting left off give a new generation the opportunity to experience Darksun as the original designers intended. IRL the designers were moved to other projects and freelancers and others were responsible for some of the latter 2E silliness (paraelemental clerics, surfing Druids etc).

You should speak more highly of the 4e reboot, as an example of somebody else doing what you are also trying to accomplish: adapt the old setting to new rules.

Another potential campaign metaplot is merchant-based: build up a new House, or protect the existing one(s) from upstarts / The Competition.

Eltab said:

You should speak more highly of the 4e reboot, as an example of somebody else doing what you are also trying to accomplish: adapt the old setting to new rules.

Another potential campaign metaplot is merchant-based: build up a new House, or protect the existing one(s) from upstarts / The Competition.

Click to expand...

Well I don't mind the book Dune Trader, I'm not opposed adding to Darksun more blowing it up (and other settings in general same idea).

I did reread the 4E one in the last year, I thought time passing might make me change my mind but no it made me dislike it more. Removing clerics, adding Paladins, Warlocks as Templars etc and teleporting elves does that and it had an Arabian Nights type vibe as well (which I am not opposed to see Al Qadim).


I don't expect a 100% conversion of 2E, 5E has bno priests for example so a Templar is not a priest but in 5E terms they would be a domain IMHO. I have kind of defaulted to a war domain but have been brainstorming a Templar domain. Elemental clerics for example don't have to duplicate the 2E ones either but they should probably exist and have the appropriate domain or have their element offer thematically appropriate domains (eg Fire offers light+ fire domains as options).

I would not add additional arcane classes for example either due the the preserver/defiler duopoly thing. Sorcerers getting thewir power from their bloodlines and warlocks from other beings doesn't really fit in. Its more or less what I meant by less is more a class and race list doesn't have to be 100% 2E but at least should make sense. Gladiators as Chamions, Fighters as Battlemasters fits the old 2E lore for example, the Bard is just a 5E assassin (spellcasting bards do not exist on Athas).

To me the 4E version was just Darksun light (Dimsun perhaps?) turning it into a generic and boring sandbox game to fit the design paradigms of 4E which were to rigid IMHO for Darksun anyway. One of the things they did do right was setitng it just after the death of Kalak, I would go back a few more weeks and just go with original time as its easy enough to branch off into the 4E timeline or the Prism Pentad metaplot from there (easier than picking up from 1996 DS anyway).

Like say for example they converted Nerath to 5E, they should be faithful as they can to the 4E world even if the races and mechanics change a bit mechanically. For example Dragonborn in 5E can't use their breath weapon as a bonus action but can as a minor action in 4E and that is fine. If a Warlord every turn up in 5E the Nerath book would also be an obvious place for it (and artificer on Eberron etc). I would not blow up Nerath just because I don't like the setting or have different personal preferences. Nerath would be a kitchen sink setting like Spelljammer and Eberron. No Drow on Dragonlance. Anything new added to a setting should at least make sense like Tieflings to Greyhawk perhaps. Lands of Iuz and all.


Not opposed to change just change for the sake of change and nonsensical change. The core rules should be redone to fit the setting not the setting redone to fit the PHB which was what they did with 4E Darksun because clerics were divine power source for example. That was not required in 2E and 3E nor was designing a 15 page class.

Zardnaar said:

Like say for example they converted Nerath to 5E, they should be faithful as they can to the 4E world even if the races and mechanics change a bit mechanically. For example Dragonborn in 5E can't use their breath weapon as a bonus action but can as a minor action in 4E and that is fine.

Click to expand...

This does beg the question: if a setting requires major revision to the 5e game mechanics to run (so much so that whole races and classes must be rewritten) than is there any advantage to running it in 5e rather than running it in its original edition?

Put another way; does the benefits of a new edition outweigh the large amount of new stuff you have to do to make it mimic the old edition's assumptions?

As usual i agree to almost everything you posted, except 2 main Points imho :

- Gladiators are BM and normal fighters are Champions. In 2nd ed the Gladiators could do the extra tricks.

- Templars would be perfect as warlocks with the SC as a Patron. The WL spell list adds much more to the templar than a 5E cleric spell list ever could.

Great aspiration, really look forward to seeing your results if your can share them. Regarding modifications... Four elemental domains would be fairly essential to represent the elemental clerics.

I think setting a campaign just before the death of the Kalak has merit. However i would want to see some other stories to be told by a major campaign, not just focusing on Tyr alone.

Let’s be fair, while the Prism Pentad has flaws it was an excellent story, almost perfect for an adventuring party... albeit a higher level one. The challenge is to recreate the feel without replaying a story that’s already been told. I think Wake of the Ravager did an excellent job of taking the aftermath of the Prism Pentad and creating a campaign that felt like True Darksun. If WoC could think on a similar scale then they could do very well. It featured a tarrasque after all!

I generally agree with the main post. I do think though that Templars are perfect for 5E Warlocks, with the local Sorcerer King as their patron. It just really fits the flavor text of the class perfectly. The one thing I might look at though is the core spell list of the class, as it's pretty limited in the PHB and Templars might need some more spells than the core list provides (even with their SK's Expanded List).

You could even have different expanded Spell Lists for each SK, to reflect their personality and history.

Many of the Dark Sun-specific versions of classes would be designed as Sub-Classes in 5E. Make a bard sub-class that's good with poisons and you have the DS Bard. (Although honestly, the DS Bard is really just a 5E Rogue/Assassin with the Entertainer background) Gladiator as fighter sub-class. I wouldn't necessarily limit players to this choices though. I might now allow the full range of sub-classes in PHB/XGE, but I think it would be fine to include some of them. Bards could choose Lore and Valor, for instance.

It would be fun to make them Athasian-themed totem animals for Barbarian.

5E Wood Elves already have boosted movement rates. You could add some ribbon ability about being tall and covering extra overland miles without Exhaustion without breaking anything.

The hard thing (IMO) of designing for Dark Sun is making a Preserver that's true to the setting but also relatively balanced with other classes and still fun to play. It's easy to make a Preserver that just sucks as a class. The flavor text of the setting says it takes time to gather life-energy gently, so you could make casting any spell take a full round or two (and you have to maintain Concentration while doing it), but that would be pretty limiting as a player choice.

Zardnaar said:

Not opposed to change just change for the sake of change and nonsensical change. The core rules should be redone to fit the setting not the setting redone to fit the PHB which was what they did with 4E Darksun because clerics were divine power source for example. That was not required in 2E and 3E nor was designing a 15 page class.

Click to expand...

I feel like this paragraph contradicts itself. If the cleric was removed from darksun in 4e because clerics were divine power source in 4e, then they weren’t removed for the sake of change. All of the changes to the setting 4e made were done for very specific reasons. You don’t have to like the changes or agree with the reasons for them, but it’s not fair to say they were “for change’s sake,” particularly when you go on to state what their reason actually was.

For the record, I do agree that a 5e Darksun should walk back most if not all of the 4e changes to dark sun. I just don’t think it’s right to say those changes were made without reason.

Hi,
Stumbled across this thread as I am currently redesigning 5e to suit my Dark Sun campaign.

I always wanted to play Dark Sun, but never wanted to play 2e after 3e came out. I never really did like the rules mechanics of 2e (thought they were hastily written and all over the place). I skipped past 4e since I didn't really play RPG's for several years, so when I came back into the fold of D&D it was 5e that people around me played. Upon reading it, I loved 5e, but saw immediately it needed some modification if I was to run a DS game.

First off, DS is to me - a low fantasy setting. Resources are scarce, so is magic. The only supernatural element there's plenty of is psionics, but most of it is farily low-level stuff (wild talents). The problem with 5e is all the player classes are pretty beefed up high-fantasy heroes, so they all needed a general nerf. I took away all the spellcasting subclasses, leaving me only with defiler/preserver (wizard type), druid and a spellcasting version of the elite templar. The bard and ranger had to be made into non-spellcasting classes (as in the original setting). I took away the elemental cleric, because i felt they were too much of a high fantasy trope and kind of ruined the feel I was going for. No clerics in my setting. Period. The restrictions for healing your hitpoints is generally loosened, meaning a party can heal up pretty ok without clerics.

Second, the vancian auto-cast spell system of 5e doesn't really suit DS. I made a house 'magical die' house rule where preservers and defilers have to roll for the magical energy they get to cast spells. Same must druids and templars, in different forms. I'm about to playtest it now, so we'll see how it works out. With these rules I played an entire campaign in DS without any magical items. For the players was pretty much a fun scramble for better (obsidan, iron etc.) materials. Its nice to not have to think about magical items as a DM. It evens the playing field and gives more power to the actual realistic tools and weapons a campaign can have.

I agree wholeheartedly that the Prism Pentad events and storyline ruins the setting if you want to retain that original feel. Lots of SK's die plus the dragon Borys. To me that's just BS and really, only something the PC's should be able to do (if at all). I prefer a static setting from a publisher, without having to buy books on 'updates' to what happened in the setting while you were gone. What I did is I progressed the setting about 10 years from after the canon start (free year 10), and I just ignored any 'damage' the heroes of the Prism Pentad did. So Abalach-Re still lives, Borys still lives. If all these baddies are dead, you're not really left with any threat to a high-level party of PCs.

Hope your conversion goes well, I might attach mine at some point once I finish. Its been an epic undertaking that really only began with 'redesigning' the ranger class. /facepalm

I may have missed it, but you mentioned healing surges... how would you handle 5e 's very generous natural healing?