tail wags dog: streamers want to say 'aaargh' so we are getting a pirate adventure

Charlaquin · Jan 8, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Well, like many things, context matters, right? Not to mention intent?

I often refer to myself, only half-jokingly, as a grognard. I would say that many people refer to themselves as grognards as a point of pride. Heck, you can see such usage all the time- websites like the old grognardia, for example.

So, yeah, I think in many circles it is a respectable term,

Sure. That’s why I said, “if you want to take pride in being a humbug, knock yourself out.” But if you’re aware that context matters, you should recognize that in other contexts, it is not used as a sign of respect. It’s not an inherently respectable title, and its linguistic root of “grumbler” has negative connotations.

lowkey13 said:
and if any of you young 3e whippersnappers try and appropriate it, then you can get off my lawn.

Again, nobody’s trying to appropriate it. We whipperanappers don’t want to be considered grognards. If you want the title for some reason, you can keep it.

lowkey13 said:
AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON PEOPLE CALLING 2E OLD SCHOOL.

Sorry, but 30 years old is old school.

lowkey13 said:
On the other hand, any grognard would tell ya that you can't put "long-time" and "4e" in close proximity to each other.

Again, sorry, but 10 years is a long time.

lowkey13 · Jan 8, 2019

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Charlaquin · Jan 8, 2019

SkidAce said:
So why are we using Urban Dictionary instead of Merriam Webster?

I don’t think it’s in Merriam Webster. It’s not an English word, and its use in a gaming context is pretty niche still.

SkidAce said:
To preempt the answer...because words and meanings change with the times.

Which leads to my point:

Grognard was a descriptor of a type of old grumbley gamer, but it wasn't always meant derogatorily.

Naturally, when a term that people are used to starts becoming a curse word, some may feel slighted and push back against the change.

[MENTION=6981174]Immortal Sun[/MENTION] is "completely disinterested in the respect of 'grogs' ". (no disrespect to you, just an example).

So obviously "grognard" has become/changed into a harsher term. Maybe it always was, and the gaming environment I was around adopted it as a "badge of honor". Hard to say.

---

But [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION] , I gave an (anecdotal) example of grognard being used in a positive way.

Yeah, it’s definitely used respectfully by certain people in certain contexts. I don’t really know whether the insult or the point of pride came first, nor do I think either is an incorrect use. I’m just saying, when people apply the term to the crowd who still refuses to play anything but 3e or Pathfinder, or when they point out that 4e fans are the new grognards, they’re not “appropriating it” to try and garner respect from OSR fans. They’re using it to criticize those players for being behind the times.

Reynard · Jan 8, 2019

Charlaquin said:
Again, sorry, but 10 years is a long time.

It's all relative, man. When you reach a certain age, 10 years was just, like, a minute ago.

Charlaquin · Jan 8, 2019

lowkey13 said:
It's not inherently respectable, but it's also not inherently bad.

Stop trying to make fetch happen, dude. You aren't the arbiter of the English language, and just because you don't like it, doesn't mean other people agree with you. Some do, some don't.

I don’t know what fetch is, but I agree with you that it is neither inherently good nor inherently bad.

lowkey13 said:
People are never so aggravating as when they take themselves too seriously.

There is something to be said about the vim and vigor to which you are grumbling about grognards. You have met the grognards, and they are you.

Yes, I’m aware that I’m a grognard. And I don’t say that with pride, or to earn the respect of the OSR crowd. I say it in sheepish admission that I have become the fossil grumbling about the new rules that I once sneered at.

Charlaquin · Jan 8, 2019

Reynard said:
It's all relative, man. When you reach a certain age, 10 years was just, like, a minute ago.

It’s rarely less than a tenth of someone’s lifespan. That’s a significant amount of time for anyone, even if it doesn’t feel like it to some.

lowkey13 · Jan 8, 2019

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lowkey13 · Jan 8, 2019

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jayoungr · Jan 8, 2019

Charlaquin said:
I don’t know what fetch is

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen

Umbran · Jan 8, 2019

Charlaquin said:
Sorry, but 30 years old is old school.

Sometimes lowkey and I disagree, but I'm going to back them up on this one... halfway.

30 years is old, for a game. But age is not a strict determiner of school. You can create a game today that is "Old School". You need to refer to something other than its age to make clear what school it sits in.

I disagree with lowkey in that I think 2e is not sufficiently different, mechanically, from 1e to be clearly out of the "Old School" camp.

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