Afghanistan D20

Check out the link from the EN World homepage. This thread existed on the old boards as well.

Beurk

To put it simply, I don't like it. That's simply stupid and immature. However, if in the same time they plan a Nicaragua d20 (extarminate 80% of the population of a country to favor the interest of some corporates from some western countries), or a Chili d20 (assassinate legitimely elected president and put a bloody dictator on the throne to block communism), why not. As it seems it will be a dimwitted attempt at making cash with bad taste and overinflation of egos, hollywood-style two-dimensional heroism and patriotism, silly manicheism and inacurracy by hundreds, they should have stayed quite.

To put it simply, it's stupid, immature and disgusting.

Edited, because I decided after a little thought not to flame.

Gez, tell me how talking about Afghanistan is any different than talking about Germany during World War II, or Korea during the Korean war? There are all kinds of Military strategy games based around conflict. Chances are, this kind of game will be quite popular with military enthusiasts, even though I personally have no interest in such a thing, I can respect its existance. Just because we're living through that time period doesn't make it wrong. If you were to play military strategy games based on WWII Battles in the 1930s-40s, chances are people would have thought that was a little disrespectful, too.

I will give you a difference that I put in another post. What are the odds of a gamer today seeing a game based on an event where their friend or family member died in action "two weeks ago".
Well, here in Austin where we have several military bases close by and many of the gamers are in the military.The odds of the above happening over a d20 game based in Afghanistan is pretty darn good right now. Actually, the chances are very good.
The odds of that happening over WWII or Korea is rather slim to none.

I would hate for a demo of this game to be played at our local game store(though I doubt they would let that happen) where there is a good chance that someone in the store is directly impacted by these events "right now". I would just bet they would be thrilled to see Marine PCs getting gunned down by Taliban forces or Al-Queda terrorists, which will happen in a tactical gun fight. I am certain that would make them feel just smashing since they lost some friends only a couple of weeks ago in action.

World War II and Korea are long gone and while there are those that are alive to remember these wars, the events are clearly over and the wounds have healed.

Even a strategy game is different, for one, it is strategic and not based on the personal experiance of one player character, the Marine Bob, who gets shot down by a terrorist in action.
This is very different.

I don't see why the game can't simply be a generic modern d20 system (except for being a way to cash in on this event). If a specific GM wants to take it to the middle east and the players want that too then so be it. As a game, it does not have to be focused on where many Americans directly feel pain NOW!

This is not my idea of patriotic. Patriotic was GIDFA and other similar events where publishers and the community raised funds to help those who have faced this tragedy hea on.

Do you see a differences?

I voted "too soon to tell". I don't see how a game on this subject must automatically be distasteful and offensive. Not talking about a problem doesn't make it go away, and that's true even for the victims of tragedies. I think a roleplaying game would have an immense potential for understanding and learning as much as possible from a tragic situation. To understand that not all arabs are terrorists. To learn that even terrorists aren't child-eating demons. To understand the politics of the area. To see beyond the easy "kill them all". To witness what deep propaganda can do to people. To help understanding that even the most evil murderer in the world has human rights, and to see what happens in a nation where this principle is violated. I could go on for pages... If it can be fun too, so much better.

The basic requirement of course is that the game is not a "let's-go-and-kick-Osama's-a$$" dungeon bash through a Taleban bunker with +3 vorpal machineguns, or something equally superficial. That I would find distasteful... that's the kind of game that could maybe, just maybe be made 10 years from now.

I don't think the focus of this game is to learn about Afghanistan's populace, but rather to conjure scenarios to eliminate Al-Qaeda terrorists and their sympathizers (Taliban).

Some war buffs would like this from the military perspective, but not all roleplayers are war enthusiasts.

For me, it's too soon to tell. Maybe it's a good thing it will be released in the Summer rather than, say next month. I figured the more time elapse, the easier we can put behind the excess anxiety and lift some of the unnecessary burdens that affected since the 9-11 attack.

I find the whole idea in EXTREMELY bad taste...

Zappo said:

I voted "too soon to tell". I don't see how a game on this subject must automatically be distasteful and offensive. Not talking about a problem doesn't make it go away, and that's true even for the victims of tragedies. I think a roleplaying game would have an immense potential for understanding and learning as much as possible from a tragic situation. To understand that not all arabs are terrorists. To learn that even terrorists aren't child-eating demons. To understand the politics of the area. To see beyond the easy "kill them all". To witness what deep propaganda can do to people. To help understanding that even the most evil murderer in the world has human rights, and to see what happens in a nation where this principle is violated. I could go on for pages... If it can be fun too, so much better.

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But, Zappo, I seriously doubt that [em]this[/em] will be the way customers approach Afghanistan D20. To expect such a game to work like an educational program is far-fetched, imho.

Do you remember "Full Metal Jacket", the war-movie which convincingly conveyed the situations soldiers in a modern war experienced? After the show I saw guys from the audience running around, toting imaginary guns. Apparently they found it ... cool.

The basic requirement of course is that the game is not a "let's-go-and-kick-Osama's-a$$" dungeon bash through a Taleban bunker with +3 vorpal machineguns, or something equally superficial. That I would find distasteful... that's the kind of game that could maybe, just maybe be made 10 years from now.

Click to expand...

Reality tends to fall in between extremes, but I fear this version (albeit without magical guns) to be far more probable. Even if KenzerCo does good, exhaustive research on the subject, the appeal for certain gamers will be more carnal.

I'm absolutely for the freedom of speech and press, so I won't act against the game, the company, or the players. But I'm this can be no reason for me to approve it.

I wouldn't call it "educative". It has first and foremost to be fun. But I don't consider it automatically offensive, only because of the theme. I don't think it is outright impossible to make a mature game, for mature players. Yes, there are immature people... people who will play a dungeon bash gunning down civilians, terrorists and their families alike. I consider that a fault of the people, not necessarily a fault of the game. I'm willing to give Afghanistan: d20 the benefit of the doubt.