D&D 5E Mystic, Psionic Mastery, and 11th level and up

Hi everyone. It's been almost two weeks since we got the last Mystic Playtest. The main thread has died. I'd like to discuss Psionic Mastery. Based on https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/843204145767100416 Jeremy Crawford's tweet, the ability is definitely different from what we understand of 6th and up level spells on the full casters.

Mystics can break the concentration limit with this ability. That seems to be the only advantage here. Otherwise, you're still limited to 5th level Spell effect damage, though extra points does mean you can spam more action+bonus action combos. But I don't think it quite works as intended.

How would you like to see it change? One action to activate he powers (it is odd that the ability spells out action and bonus action powers, leaving out reaction and free powers). Would you like to see some 7+ point scaling effects? High level powers for the 11th level and up Mystics?

What are your ideas?


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I'd like to see them go back to the drawing board on this one. Breaking the concentration limit is a bad idea, in my opinion. And this ability is needlessly complicated.

Xeviat said:

Hi everyone. It's been almost two weeks since we got the last Mystic Playtest. The main thread has died. I'd like to discuss Psionic Mastery. Based on https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/843204145767100416 Jeremy Crawford's tweet, the ability is definitely different from what we understand of 6th and up level spells on the full casters.

Mystics can break the concentration limit with this ability. That seems to be the only advantage here. Otherwise, you're still limited to 5th level Spell effect damage, though extra points does mean you can spam more action+bonus action combos. But I don't think it quite works as intended.

How would you like to see it change? One action to activate he powers (it is odd that the ability spells out action and bonus action powers, leaving out reaction and free powers). Would you like to see some 7+ point scaling effects? High level powers for the 11th level and up Mystics?

What are your ideas?


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There are many discipline powers that don't allow you to exceed the cap, but some do appear to allow it. For example, look at Corrosive Metabolism. Corrosive Touch is point capped at 7 points. However, Breath of the Black Dragon has no such level cap. As such, you can spend your entire Psionic Mastery on increasing the damage.

I agree with going back to the drawing board.

Mystics need high level powers with similar power levels of effects to high level spells. The ability to enter the astral or ethereal plane, and teleportation over hundreds of miles are the ones that just stood out to me as unacceptably missing. Another example is how limited the ability to dig around in someone's memories or mess with their head is. These abilities should function differently than spells, but they should be able to accomplish similarly powerful things.

I'm not sure just having higher point expenditures available within disciplines is the answer though. I'd like to see a big more specialization. Maybe each Order grants you a special high-level ability of the type I'm talking about. So only nomads can do long range teleport or something.

And/or there could be higher level effects within a discipline, but perhaps they are only available to those of the correct Order. If that happened, you'd have to limit the number of such disciplines you could "tag" to give you those benefits. If you always got the high level effects from your own order's disciplines, and never from others, that would provide too much discouragement for branching out.

Instead of having high level effects within disciplines, you might instead have a selection of stand alone high level abilities, like a 3e rogue's special high level abilities, that you simply select ala carte at certain levels. They could all be order related, and you would probably have to select half of them from your order.

So perhaps at 11th level you choose a high-level Order effect, at 13th level you choose one from any Order, at 15th level you choose one from your Order, at 17th level from any Order, and then at 19th/20th level maybe your Order gives you a special capstone high-powered effect that no one else can get.

That sort of thing can keep it distinct from spellcasting while still allowing them to get real high level stuff.

Sword of Spirit said:

Instead of having high level effects within disciplines, you might instead have a selection of stand alone high level abilities, like a 3e rogue's special high level abilities, that you simply select ala carte at certain levels. They could all be order related, and you would probably have to select half of them from your order.

So perhaps at 11th level you choose a high-level Order effect, at 13th level you choose one from any Order, at 15th level you choose one from your Order, at 17th level from any Order, and then at 19th/20th level maybe your Order gives you a special capstone high-powered effect that no one else can get.

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I like this idea. I wouldn't want everyone to automatically get a high level power with each discipline, but choosing from your disciplines (especially if limited by Order) would be good.


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Sword of Spirit said:

I'm not sure just having higher point expenditures available within disciplines is the answer though.

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Agreed. Some of the disciplines are over-packed with options as it is. They could introduce a series of meta-disciplines or something for higher levels.

I also agree that things need to be tied into the orders more. As it stands, any mystic can take any discipline, and there's really no incentive to stick with your own order's disciplines like there was in v2 (with things like Mystic Recovery only working with disciplines tied to your order, for instance).

In playtesting, I have enjoyed having the ability to activate two powers at once, even without concentration. Once I had a spell Caster on me with Spirit Guardians, and I used two powers, one to knock him back and the other to attempt to disrupt his concentration. Thankfully, he failed all three saves. Had I not had the option I may have been playing a new character now.

Hathorym said:

In playtesting, I have enjoyed having the ability to activate two powers at once, even without concentration. Once I had a spell Caster on me with Spirit Guardians, and I used two powers, one to knock him back and the other to attempt to disrupt his concentration. Thankfully, he failed all three saves. Had I not had the option I may have been playing a new character now.

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Except it doesn't allow you to activate two powers at once. The phrasing was a bit unclear, but Jeremy Crawford clarified.

Sword of Spirit said:

Except it doesn't allow you to activate two powers at once. The phrasing was a bit unclear, but Jeremy Crawford clarified.

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I looked for Crawford's clatification, but the only reference to Psionic Mastery I could find is that it costs an action to activate these special points. Is there another out there that I've missed?

Psionic Mastery
Beginning at 11th level, your mastery of psionic energy allows you to push your mind beyond its normal limits. As an action, you gain 9 special psi points that you can spend only on disciplines that require an action or a bonus action to use. You can use all 9 points on one discipline, or you can spread them across multiple disciplines. You can’t also spend your normal psi points on these disciplines; you can spend only the special points gained from this feature. When you finish a long rest, you lose any of these special points that you haven’t spent.

If more than one of the disciplines you activate with these points require concentration, you can concentrate on all of them. Activating one of them ends any effect you were already concentrating on, and if you begin concentrating on an effect that doesn’t use these special points, the disciplines end that you’re concentrating on.

At 15th level, the pool of psi points you gain from this feature increases to 11.

You have one use of this feature, and you regain any expended use of it with a long rest.You gain one additional use of this feature at 13th, 15th, and 17th level.

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If it wasn't meant to allow you to activate two powers at once, why would there even be a discussion about mutiple concentrations in the ability itself? I mean, I can see how that would be if you looked at it one way, but I'm interpreting it differently, You're still limited to 7 psi per power, you're just adding a little flavor from another power.

Otherwise, what's the point about activating at all? Just activate them after a long rest and tool around with them all day. How are they even bonus points at all? Just raise the psi points.

Hathorym said:

I looked for Crawford's clatification, but the only reference to Psionic Mastery I could find is that it costs an action to activate these special points. Is there another out there that I've missed?



If it wasn't meant to allow you to activate two powers at once, why would there even be a discussion about mutiple concentrations in the ability itself? I mean, I can see how that would be if you looked at it one way, but I'm interpreting it differently, You're still limited to 7 psi per power, you're just adding a little flavor from another power.

Otherwise, what's the point about activating at all? Just activate them after a long rest and tool around with them all day. How are they even bonus points at all? Just raise the psi points.

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You can activate a single concentration power in one round and then a second the round after.

Actually, rereading it, I've finally found out where the rest of the mystic's psi points are, they're tied up in multiple uses of this power. I always thought the progression in the chart looked odd at higher levels.