Backgrounds: Use 'Em or Lose 'Em?

Leatherhead said:

Here is a thought: If playing out your Ideals/Bonds/Flaws was listed as awarding Inspiration, (like the Virtue and Vice system from WoD) both systems would probably see more play.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you just described exactly the default mechanical impact of those traits. The PHB specifies that role-playing those traits is how you get Inspiration.

I believe the DMG might suggest a couple of alternative methods for gaining Inspiration (I don't recall exactly), but most of the space it spends discussing Inspiration assumes the PHB mechanic.

Sword of Spirit said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you just described exactly the default mechanical impact of those traits. The PHB specifies that role-playing those traits is how you get Inspiration.

I believe the DMG might suggest a couple of alternative methods for gaining Inspiration (I don't recall exactly), but most of the space it spends discussing Inspiration assumes the PHB mechanic.

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Yes and no.

The WoD system is a bit more complex, non-optional (or rather, less optional), and lets you stockpile the resource.
Additionally, the PHB and DMG really undersell the system. In both books the first thing you read about the system is how you can totally ignore it and be fine. In contrast, Feats are also an optional rule, but the rules governing feats don't repeatedly mention that fact every time you look them up.

S'mon said:

I don't find that any of the PHB Backgrounds as written provide any dramatic impetus - not a criticism of that one in particular. I think it's an issue with how they're expressed, not the general concept. If there was going to be any narrative weight/dramatic impetus, it would all have to come from me & the GM, and probably require negotiation/discussion.

Example: compared to eg the PHB 'Noble' Background, the Thule 'Atlantean Noble' Heroic Narrative gives me a bunch of kickers right off. Two players took this Narrative. One player (fighter) took the Exiled Noble suggestion, which means he's in opposition to the ruling conservative faction of Katagia - he could have been a radical Atlantean-supremacist or a New Katagian liberal; he took the latter option. So now he has a bunch of likely allies and enemies, and a clear outline of how his narrative may progress. The other player (wizard) took the Quodethi Noble suggestion, so as a member of House Vorzin she's intimately involved in city politics - we settled on her being a daughter of High Diadem Liana, the high priestess of Azura - and she has powerful enemies in the rival Houses Maersk & Sedarnel.

For this to be done in the PHB it would require tying the Backgrounds in specifically to the FR I
think, they would be more stuff like "Harper Agent" "Zhentarim Spy" or "Servant of the Emerald Enclave", ie the FR Factions. As written I find they are so generic they don't have any energy in themselves.

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Huh. I've played a noble (knight), and I find the genericness of the PHB backgrounds a boon—rather than constrain you to someone else's singular gameworld or narrative, they give you a springboard to for your own narrative and leave room for whatever setting you're playing in. It's sort of like classes—be a fighter or wizard allow ample room for interpretation as to the specifics.

I like having them. They tend to make for some ideas on playing the PC. My urchin thief if different than my guild thief for example. My guild thief is a cartographer seeking knowledge and exploring the ruins for some of the noble families that sponsor him. The urchin was brought out of the gutter by a harper and now he tries to be part of a group and have loyal friends, but still covets gold and hides in small places to feel safe. I have enough playing time to come up with some of this by myself, but the added tables allow me to get there faster, not to mention would help new players greatly.

Leatherhead said:

Yes and no.

The WoD system is a bit more complex, non-optional (or rather, less optional), and lets you stockpile the resource.
Additionally, the PHB and DMG really undersell the system. In both books the first thing you read about the system is how you can totally ignore it and be fine. In contrast, Feats are also an optional rule, but the rules governing feats don't repeatedly mention that fact every time you look them up.

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I see what you're saying. In order to really do it the same way they'd have to have more codified traits though. The archetype specific type of willpower gain conditions in WoD would require them to either limit archetypes or have players/DMs create conditions for each traits. Unless you are meaning basing that on your Background, rather than Ideal/Bonds/Flaws. Even with custom backgrounds being supported, that's actually much more doable. It would have been interesting if they had put something like that as an optional rule in XGtE. (Coming up with rules for every one sentence description of something important to a character, like the ideals/bonds/flaw are would be more difficult.)

I also agree that being able to stockpile would make the system better. That inability really throws a damper on the way the system works for my entire group. We're all resource hoarders I guess. But, on the other hand, I don't like having something as powerful as Inspiration stockpiled. The PCs don't need any extra power boosts!

What I eventually did was come up with rules for what happens when you have Inspiration but would get more awarded to you. It turns into something I call "Impact" which can bet stockpiled indefinitely. Impact never converts back to Inspiration though, so it doesn't mess with that mechanic. What it does let you use is buy campaign influence. You can spend certain amounts of it to request the DM include fun stuff he wasn't already intending to included in the campaign. Like this:

Vignette: A character-focused brief event or escapade - 3 Impact
Development: A character-focused enduring campaign element - 15 Impact
Scenario: A character-focused storyline with lasting importance - 37 Impact

The players don't directly take narrative control with Impact, because I don't run D&D that way. Rather they say they want to use it, and perhaps make a vaguish suggestion of what they are hoping for out of it, and then I come up with an interesting thing to do with it. It's actually not even supposed to be a pure benefit to the character--as in, it isn't intended to provide them resources or power ups. Rather it is supposed to give them a way of buying focus for their character. I try to make it so the results are as likely to be "bad" as "good", but the point of them is to add enjoyment by tying the characters to the world more dynamically.

The funny thing is that my players don't actually spend it very often (I think we've had about two each of vignettes and developments, and we've been playing since about 2016), but it does make it more meaningful to them, and they like to receive it--apparently to stockpile for buying scenarios at some point.

The background features are cool, but they don't come up much in game play. I'd really like to see them get more use. Paradoxically, if they had some kind of cost associated with them (even something weak, like "1/session"), I think players would be much more inclined to use them.

My current character has the Mercenary Veteran Background. It comes up quite often in the form of adventure hooks from the DM.

My bond and flaw come up quite a bit too. Traits and Ideal less so.

BookBarbarian said:

My current character has the Mercenary Veteran Background. It comes up quite often in the form of adventure hooks from the DM.

My bond and flaw come up quite a bit too. Traits and Ideal less so.

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Yup, depends on the campaign and how much the GM and player want it to occur.

In my games, I have backgrounds on my go-to list for whenever I want to add extra meaning to a scene or look to flesh out options for progress.

It's no effort really for a GM to say "you find the contact in the bar and..." then decide to make the next part of that paragraph relate to a PzC background instead of describing a generic new NPC. It just requires paying attention.

aco175 said:

I have enough playing time to come up with some of this by myself, but the added tables allow me to get there faster, not to mention would help new players greatly.

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This is what backgrounds are to me. I don't need tables to come up with a character, but some people do. Or if I'll just play anything, I can roll and find out what that anything is. Backgrounds are pretty easy to ignore too, if you're more of a roll-player.

So I actually like them in 5e. They're more interesting and less controversial than alignment. I'd like to see 6e introduce some optional rules to go with them, beyond Play One, Get Inspiration.

One thing I do like about backgrounds is that it condenses down pages and pages of boring backstory into "I'm a Noble" or "I'm a Folk Hero" or whatever -- while still acknowledging that such backstory exists. It's kind of the "Minimum Viable Product" of role-playing.