Will you make transsexual Elves canon in your games ?

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 16, 2018

ardoughter said:
I find it interesting to note the assumption that there is sexual dimorphism among elves. Why would elven females be on average, smaller, lighter, or less strong than male elves?

Well, they’ve always been written up that way in the PHBs.

Sunseeker · Jun 16, 2018

Dannyalcatraz said:
Well, they’ve always been written up that way in the PHBs.

In fluff terms, but not in any mechanical sense, not for several editions anyway.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 16, 2018

So what? The question wasn’t about the nature of the write-ups, just the source of the assumption.

UngainlyTitan · Jun 16, 2018

Sunseeker said:
In fluff terms, but not in any mechanical sense, not for several editions anyway.

Exactly the fluff make no sense in the context of the mechanical expression. So I am inclined to regard the fluff as unreliable and a reflection of human beliefs about sex phenotypes. I think Elves become more interesting the more alien they are. One of the reasons I really like the Blessing of Corellan, it solves a lot of issues I have always had, but learned to ignore, about D&D elves.

Sunseeker · Jun 16, 2018

ardoughter said:
Exactly the fluff make no sense in the context of the mechanical expression. So I am inclined to regard the fluff as unreliable and a reflection of human beliefs about sex phenotypes. I think Elves become more interesting the more alien they are. One of the reasons I really like the Blessing of Corellan, it solves a lot of issues I have always had, but learned to ignore, about D&D elves.

Well, the fluff applies to all the races. Even dragonborn females, though now without boobs, are described/depicted as somewhat thinner and less muscly than males, though there's no rule support for that. Even humans are still described that way and we all know there's sexual dimorphism between humans.

But a mechanical representation of that fact does a disservice to the sort of game D&D is trying to present. Characters are always exceptions, as Mary-Suey as that can sound, as a-typical members of their race/culture/world the one female in your party may just happen to be the strongest person in the world.

Personally, I find the Blessing dramatically less interesting if all elves are assumed to be rather androgynous in appearance to begin with. Sure, it lets them switch sex, but much of gender is based on physical appearance and capability. If there difference between male and female elves is already a fraction of a fraction, then elvish gender distinctions are going to be equally androgynous. Which sort of, IMO,reduces the value of including an element like the Blessing.

I find such a thing like the Blessing to be far more interesting in a race with defined gender roles and marked physical dimorphism between the sexes.

Eltab · Jun 16, 2018

Sunseeker said:
Lets go a little darker here: Rumor has spread that a Drow with the Blessing has used it to escape their duties (female->male) or risen above their station (male->female). They must be hunted down and assassinated, but none can find out what is going on, because this person is from the party's patron House! Secrets and intrigue and bloodshed abound!

Not only has he/she risen above his/her allotted station! He/she is an infil-traitor with alliegance to another god! In Lolth's name, he/she must be drowned in his/her own blood!

… hey, wait, I described this plot line about a week ago, minus the emotional fervor...

UngainlyTitan · Jun 16, 2018

Sunseeker said:
Well, the fluff applies to all the races. Even dragonborn females, though now without boobs, are described/depicted as somewhat thinner and less muscly than males, though there's no rule support for that. Even humans are still described that way and we all know there's sexual dimorphism between humans.

But a mechanical representation of that fact does a disservice to the sort of game D&D is trying to present. Characters are always exceptions, as Mary-Suey as that can sound, as a-typical members of their race/culture/world the one female in your party may just happen to be the strongest person in the world.

Personally, I find the Blessing dramatically less interesting if all elves are assumed to be rather androgynous in appearance to begin with. Sure, it lets them switch sex, but much of gender is based on physical appearance and capability. If there difference between male and female elves is already a fraction of a fraction, then elvish gender distinctions are going to be equally androgynous. Which sort of, IMO,reduces the value of including an element like the Blessing.

I find such a thing like the Blessing to be far more interesting in a race with defined gender roles and marked physical dimorphism between the sexes.

Shrug, different strokes different folks. I guess I am in a minority here.

Sunseeker · Jun 16, 2018

Eltab said:
Not only has he/she risen above his/her allotted station! He/she is an infil-traitor with alliegance to another god! In Lolth's name, he/she must be drowned in his/her own blood!

… hey, wait, I described this plot line about a week ago, minus the emotional fervor...

Honestly I'm thinking of running the Blessing as "genetic". It's just an element of elven ancestry that manifests in some, but not in others. Drow, being children of Corellion like all elves, are just sometimes randomly born with it. Though much like secondary sex characteristics themselves, it doesn't manifest until puberty.

Which makes the implication even worse for the Drow. Now not just one elf is a problem, but potentially their entire bloodline is tainted.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 16, 2018

Well, the fluff applies to all the races. Even dragonborn females, though now without boobs, are described/depicted as somewhat thinner and less muscly than males, though there's no rule support for that. Even humans are still described that way and we all know there's sexual dimorphism between humans.

Yep. No mechanics for dimorphism in any PC races since the advent of 3Ed, even though we know it exists in humans.

psychophipps · Jun 16, 2018

ardoughter said:
I find it interesting to note the assumption that there is sexual dimorphism among elves. Why would elven females be on average, smaller, lighter, or less strong than male elves?

Yeah, I actually brought that up a ways back.
I would assume that make/female would have clothing and/or other visual social markers to denote the current sex of the person rather than the typically fairly obvious dimorphism of humans. Secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, changes in hip/femur geometry) would probably be more subtle and/or mostly happening as necessary rather than at birth.
I also see that there is an assumption of "can and regularly does" when it comes to the available change(s). Since elves are "adults" at around 100 you can figure that they've given both sexes a go for at least a bit to find their place in their society. In fact, I think it would be safe to assume they find human sexism to be confusing and/or even incredibly offensive because they have probably literally in the the shoes of that serving wench the human barbarian is making rapey-eyes at.