Shield master on twitter

smbakeresq · May 12, 2018

Shield master is cheese because of the timing of a chance to knock someone (with size limitations) prone but using Sharp Shooter to attack a target at maximum range behind 3/4 cover without penalty isn’t?

I guess JC likes himself some ranged characters.

Patrick McGill · May 12, 2018

cbwjm said:
The best thing about his clarification/correction/whatever, is how much some people are freaking out about it. I've been browsing a thread on reddit, looking at some of the tweets, and man are some people are going crazy over the change.

I just went and read the reddit thread. Gee whiz are those folks angry.

jaelis · May 12, 2018

Yes, it is impressive!

iserith · May 12, 2018

Man, that's how I originally called it when the PHB came out but went with the forum consensus. Once again the internet has led me astray. First porn, now this.

guachi · May 12, 2018

I created my Twitter account specifically to ask this question. So you can now know my real name if you wanted to as the linked tweet was to my question.

I think it's a dumb rules change and let Crawford know. It puts Shield Master far down the list of useful feats. I'm trying to think of a reason to take this feat and I really can't. Honestly, I think GWM taken by a shield user is a better feat than Shield Master is. And that's sad.

guachi · May 12, 2018

cbwjm said:
The best thing about his clarification/correction/whatever, is how much some people are freaking out about it. I've been browsing a thread on reddit, looking at some of the tweets, and man are some people are going crazy over the change.

People are upset because characters they made that make extensive use of the feat now can't use it anymore. Imagine if your Barbarian could no longer use Reckless Attack or cantrips didn't scale damage with character level, or GWM could no longer use the -5/+10 part of the feat or if Cunning Action now had to be taken after your Attack Action.

Entire characters would be wrecked. Things people did every turn - and enjoyed doing - are now things people can no longer do. I actually had a Shield Master using PC and he was really fun! There's no reason whatsoever to take the feat now. The PC wouldn't even be the same character.

That's why people are upset. It's a core part of basically any PC that takes the feat.

Caliban · May 12, 2018

I think the wording of the PHB leaves it open to both interpretations - both his original one, and the one he is using now.

The feat simply says: "If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield."

It leaves the timing of the bonus action vague ("If you use" not "When you use"), simply requiring that you take the attack action at some point on your turn. It can seem a bit illogical that an optional bonus action can lock you into particular main action - even you are not longer able to take the attack action as a result of the bonus action shove. (Such as if you shove them out of your melee reach instead of knocking them prone). I was personally fine with that potential paradox, but apparently he just couldn't handle it anymore.

A side effect of this ruling that now the bonus action attack from dual wielding and polearm master must take place after you make your regular attacks. Not that it matters nearly as much in those situations.

Shiroiken · May 12, 2018

I generally read Sage Advice and sometimes these twitter rulings, but I generally find myself using the opposite of JC. This was one of the few "rulings" I was okay with, so I'm not surprised he changed it. Rulings not rules, is by far the best philosophy they've put forth.

lkj · May 12, 2018

guachi said:
I created my Twitter account specifically to ask this question. So you can now know my real name if you wanted to as the linked tweet was to my question.

I think it's a dumb rules change and let Crawford know. It puts Shield Master far down the list of useful feats. I'm trying to think of a reason to take this feat and I really can't. Honestly, I think GWM taken by a shield user is a better feat than Shield Master is. And that's sad.

I can totally see why losing the shove-attack option on the same round would be a bummer. But essentially getting the 'no damage' part of the Rogue's Evasion ability is pretty big. It has saved the fighter in our group multiple times. And getting a shield bonus to Dex Saves is also pretty sweet.

In other words-- I understand that if you built a character concept around the shove why it would be disappointing. But I don't agree that the Shield Master isn't very useful without it.

AD

5ekyu · May 12, 2018

"From a role playing angle though the whole thing makes no sense at all. Why is there a condition on bashing with your shield?"

There isnt.

With a shield you can make an improvised attack as normal under the rules for attack.
With a shield, you can shove, using your attack action as one of the attacks.

Be clear, shield master does not allow these, they are already there.

Shield master simply **adds** a new set of conditions under which you can use your attack action, get all of its attacks and **also** use your shield for the bonus attack option as described. Your attack action strikes setup the enemy for your bonus bash.

So, not limiting at all - adding more.