D&D 5E Edition Wars, WHY?

SirAntoine · Jan 21, 2015

Nergal Pendragon said:
In all fairness and speaking as someone who argued with GMforPowergamers on the topic number 1 came from, I do not believe GM is overreacting.

He asked me in another thread if one of my comments meant I was "there to diss on 4th Edition", and that was quite an assumption. I said no, simply. I have enjoyed my correspondence with GMforPowergamers in another thread recently, and I don't want him to think I am a 4e-hater or something. It's not always the case when someone disagrees, and I have elaborated on those disagreements because I really do not think the roles from 4e were always part of the game.

Ratskinner · Jan 21, 2015

Morrus said:
It's not gamers, or WotC, or Paizo. It's the Internet. Macrumors is bad; video game forums are horrible; Twitter can be downright nasty; and there are places I don't even dare to look.

I don't think any one venue or subject is responsible for it. It's just what people on the Internet do.

I'm not so sure that I blame the internet itself. I can recall vicious arguments between Chevy and Ford supporters in my youth. (I presume their debates rage on somewhere online, nowadays.) Even in the computer-but-before-browsers era, Mac and PC supporters regularly had at each other.

Not that there aren't differences, but I think they are to a large degree perceptual because of the constant availability of the argument. If you wanted to find a Chevy vs. Ford fight in 1978, you needed to go to a car "place" maybe an auto parts store, garage, or a races. Nowadays, the fight is always there at the ready. It isn't even in real time, so it waits for you to get back to it. Additionally, we re-expose ourselves to it as we feverishly recheck our message boards and reply counts, etc. You didn't have to hear that Chevy guy repeat himself 50 times in 1978, and when you went home, the argument ended (one way or another).

In any case, it is what it is. My only real gripe about it is that it makes it harder to actually glean useful information through discussion.

Bayonet · Jan 21, 2015

Some people enter niche hobbies like ours for the simple love of them.

Some people end up here out of a combination of self-loathing and elitism. They just want a small pond away from most other people, so they can pretend to be the big fish and "rule" their little kingdom with insults and whining.

The internet effect really enhances this kind of thing, since social incompetents can run their mouths without feeling any consequences. Can you imagine one of these guys screaming about how only "retard newb f*&&ots" can enjoy x edition, in real life, to another person? Someone would open their face like a bag of chips.

Umbran · Jan 21, 2015

GMforPowergamers said:
Now it would be bad enough if this was only this week, but in general I've found this form has become less and less friendly, and more and more adversarial.

SO why is the edition wars heating up again?

It isn't. As someone who has to police it - while there are short term peaks and troughs (like the weather), the general climate has been roughly the same for a while. Some folks cannot let things go, and will take old arguments and slights to their graves.

As for at least the perception of things being more and more adversarial - be careful of generating some of it yourself. If you *look* for adversarial intent, you will see it, whether the other guy put it in there or not. In text-only medium, it is very, very easy to read things into a post the author did not intend. In doing so, there is a strong tendency for one to respond with adversarial tones in defense, and the thing inflates to an argument on you.

Remember - no edition needs you as its White Knight, and you don't need to fight for the honor of your favored game or playstyle. If someone levels what you feel is an unwarranted criticism, you don't need to respond to it. That is *not* an admission that the criticism was good, reasonable, or right to make. It is an admission that the individual who made it sounds like someone who won't be changing their mind any time soon, so there isn't much point to engaging. Walking away from a pointless argument is a valid choice.

painted_klown · Jan 21, 2015

I don't know much about the "edition wars" as I am too new to the hobby, but in regards to this particular forum I will say this:

The posters on this forum are some of the most helpful, and nicest people I have run across on the internet. If you take a look at the endless slew of questions I have posted on this forum, you will see that I had several memebrs chime in with helpul advice, tips, reminders, etc to help me along.

Not once did I get any virtual eye rolling, snark, mean comments, or did I get made fun of for asking for clairifcation of even the most basic answers. In fact, all of the positive reaction I recieved led me to (in my own mind) think of this as my "gaming forum home" on the internet. It also feels good to know that I have a place to ask questions that will help me better understand the game, and therefore have more fun with my players.

It's a good place to be, and perhaps it's ignorance, excellent moderation, or a combination thereof, but I never felt anything less than welcomed when joining this forum.

On topic: I have only played 5E & Pathfinder so far, but to be honest, I do have an urge to try all of the other editions, just to see what they are like.

Imaro · Jan 21, 2015

Nergal Pendragon said:
In all fairness and speaking as someone who argued with GMforPowergamers on the topic number 1 came from, I do not believe GM is overreacting.

This thread made me go read that entire thread and I'm sorry but the minute someone chose to disagree with @GMforPowergamers own opinions about 5e and roles he calls it out as an edition war attack... when in actuality it's just someone not agreeing with his assertions of roles throughout D&D's history (which is what the thread is about. Disagreeing with you is not edition warring so sorry but I'm going to agree with @SirAntoine here and go with over reaction...

Dausuul · Jan 21, 2015

Rygar said:
It leaves me with a choice, support 4th edition in 5th edition and spend years taking abuse for daring to exclude a 4th edition feature in my games, or oppose 4th edition in 5th edition and eventually that group will no longer be around to toss out abuse. It's a no brainer.

...I don't understand. How are you "supporting 4th Edition in 5th Edition?" There's not a lot of backward compatibility there. If you have a 4E swordmage, it's not going to port neatly into 5E. Either you accept that you're going to have to rebuild the character as an eldritch knight fighter (which will play quite differently), or you have to create a homebrew swordmage class. Are people actually demanding that you do the latter?

Or are you just talking about dragonborn and tieflings? If so, then I suggest telling your detractors they should be grateful you're supporting elves and dwarves. Some of us aren't.

Nergal Pendragon · Jan 21, 2015

SirAntoine said:
He asked me in another thread if one of my comments meant I was "there to diss on 4th Edition", and that was quite an assumption. I said no, simply. I have enjoyed my correspondence with GMforPowergamers in another thread recently, and I don't want him to think I am a 4e-hater or something. It's not always the case when someone disagrees, and I have elaborated on those disagreements because I really do not think the roles from 4e were always part of the game.

Imaro said:
This thread made me go read that entire thread and I'm sorry but the minute someone chose to disagree with @GMforPowergamers own opinions about 5e and roles he calls it out as an edition war attack... when in actuality it's just someone not agreeing with his assertions of roles throughout D&D's history (which is what the thread is about. Disagreeing with you is not edition warring so sorry but I'm going to agree with @SirAntoine here and go with over reaction...

You both have good points. I admit I wasn't entirely clear-headed when I replied.

Olaf the Stout · Jan 22, 2015

Morrus said:
That was just one guy posting lots of threads. He got banned eventually.

Really glad to hear that happened. I tried to avoid interacting with him as he seemed to be on a one-man trolling crusade.

Henry · Jan 22, 2015

Edit: darn it, ninja'd by 24 hours...

Those of us who have been around that long (look for all the grognards running around here with join dates of "January 2002" and they've probably been at it more like since 1999 or so) and we've seen edition warring over every version yet in the Internet age - even back to the days when Usenet servers was the primary way gamers communicated. Edition warring was where the infamous "hate of d02 know no limit" forum post came from on rpg.net - i watched people blow gaskets because PCs gained hit dice past 9th level, or because wizards could get the same 18 str as fighters, or halfling wizards existed.

Heck, once upon a time Dragonsfoot.org had an edition war forum, just so people could blow up. I'd jump in there, not because I wanted to denigrate someone's fun, but because I enjoyed the spirited debate. I do occasionally miss it, even though some members couldn't leave the fire in the forum when they went elsewhere. If people could remember there's LIVE PEOPLE on the other end, it might not get to a bad level like it sometimes does, and remember we're all just rolling dice, here (as an old friend once put it).