4th level party vs CR5 Catoblepas

TheCosmicKid · Jun 28, 2018

Imaculata said:
No, CR's exist for a reason. You should always consider whether a monster is a fair fight for your players. You wouldn't throw a monster at the players that they have no way of beating, for example.

I would and I have, and it's resulted in some of the most memorable moments of the campaign. Adventure fiction, you will note, is not just a series of fair fights. It is also filled with suspenseful stealth scenes, daring escapes, and the occasional heroic sacrifice. The iconic dungeon crawl ended with a balrog.

Though I will amend my previous statement lest I be misinterpreted. A DM, for planning purposes, should definitely be aware that the party is no match for a monster beforehand. Surprise TPKs are no fun for anyone. And that's what CR is useful for. So rather than "don't take the PCs' capabilities into account", perhaps I should have said, "take the PCs' capabilities into account, but take every effort to create the illusion that you didn't".

TheSword · Jun 28, 2018

I think it’s a poorly designed creature. The death ray is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

A Con 10 character will fail the save by 5 more often than it passes and 64 damage is enough to drop most 4th level characters. The dying at 0 is a dirty trick considering the power of the ray. It seems a beast designed to really put a downer on a players experience.

So the question is what are you trying to achieve?

Death should come from poor choices not failing a single 50-50 saving throw.

jasper · Jun 29, 2018

What adventure league module is this?

rgoodbb · Jun 29, 2018

jasper said:
What adventure league module is this?

Apologies, I hit the wrong title when starting this thread. It's not AL

jasper · Jun 29, 2018

just asking because one appears in DDHC-toa-6 Heart of the wild.

rgoodbb · Jun 29, 2018

jasper said:
just asking because one appears in DDHC-toa-6 Heart of the wild.

Oh, thanks. Any good? I'll take a look.

jasper · Jun 29, 2018

It is an 8 or 12 hour adventure. I advise you to break in up into a couple of sessions. I did love the maze thingy.

Harzel · Jun 30, 2018

Generally, if the monster CR is greater than the party's level, there will be a significant chance of one-shot reductions to 0 HP by the monster. With a 4th-level party of 5 vs a CR5 monster (or any other combination that the encounter guidelines rate as less than 'deadly'), the PCs are still very likely to win, though. Since I don't think one-shot knockdowns are much fun, I tend to avoid using a single high (relative to party level) CR monster as a hard or deadly fight that the PCs are forced into (or likely to think they must engage). Multiple slightly lower CR foes work much better IMO.

In the particular case of the catoblepas, as others have noted, there is a simple tactic that completely nerfs the monster, but if the tactic is not employed there is a significant chance of PC deaths (though a TPK is still quite unlikely). That seems way too swingy for my taste. To be useful as a solo monster, the catoblepas needs a) to be less vulnerable to kiting, b) have less damage per attack, c) be more survivable (mostly likely via higher AC and/or more HP). I would not use it as is.

I did really like the giant crayfish solution.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 30, 2018

TheSword said:
I think it’s a poorly designed creature. The death ray is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

A Con 10 character will fail the save by 5 more often than it passes and 64 damage is enough to drop most 4th level characters. The dying at 0 is a dirty trick considering the power of the ray. It seems a beast designed to really put a downer on a players experience.

So the question is what are you trying to achieve?

Death should come from poor choices not failing a single 50-50 saving throw.

The Catobelpas was ported from earlier editions, where sudden death was far more common.

It is also based on a mythical creature, described by Pliny the Elder (he who died at Pompeii) that was said to have gaze (or bad breath) that could kill instantly or turn to stone.

It was probably a somewhat garbled account of a wildebeest.

TheCosmicKid · Jun 30, 2018

Harzel said:
In the particular case of the catoblepas, as others have noted, there is a simple tactic that completely nerfs the monster, but if the tactic is not employed there is a significant chance of PC deaths (though a TPK is still quite unlikely). That seems way too swingy for my taste. To be useful as a solo monster, the catoblepas needs a) to be less vulnerable to kiting, b) have less damage per attack, c) be more survivable (mostly likely via higher AC and/or more HP). I would not use it as is.

This is what I'd call a "puzzle monster", and I think if the PCs can crack it correctly, it will come across as a rewarding teamwork experience rather than a boring fight.

4th level party vs CR5 Catoblepas

TheCosmicKid

Hero

TheSword

Legend

jasper

Rotten DM

rgoodbb

Adventurer

jasper

Rotten DM

rgoodbb

Adventurer

jasper

Rotten DM

Harzel

Adventurer

Paul Farquhar

Legend

TheCosmicKid

Hero

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