Was I talking about your point or Hussars point?
Because I really can not see that one 4e DM allowing a character to plunge their hands into a forge is evidence that every 4e DM would allow it, or indeed any other DM. The 4e system is designed to force Players who want to maximise their chances of passing a skill challenge to try and use their best skills in anyway that the DM will allow.
I would imagine that the best system of DnD for creating magical items was actually ADnD because the adventure was in the assembly of the materials required rather then in the process of creation itself.
Good point... are there any official 4e Epic adventures where something like the forge example @
pemerton gave is a part of an official skill challenge or check? I was glancing through an epic tier adventure from Dungeon called "Those Once Loyal" and the skill challenges and checks I saw seemed pretty mundane (with the epicness seeming to come from the opposition as opposed to the capabilities of the PC's). I've included one below but I have to say none of the suggested uses of skills comes close to sticking one's hands in a searing hot magical forge to help in the creation of an artifact. In fact compared to that the skill uses below (though admittedly having large DC's) seem downright tame to the point of well almost being ordinary uses against bigger things. So I'm hoping someone can provide examples of the types of things being cited here as inherent to 4e epic tier and not just how a particular DM chooses to run their game at epic tier.
[sblock]Common Cause
The aspect grieves for your troubles, but his own loyalty to
Bahamut blinds him to your true purpose.
Level: 28 (XP 26,000)
Complexity: 1 (requires 4 successes before 3 failures).
Primary Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Religion, special
Secondary Skill: Insight
Special: If the characters defeated Dispater and
show his head or his rod as proof of the dragon’s
corruption, the characters automatically earn 2 successes.
(2 successes, maximum 2 successes)
Arcana (DC 31): The character tries to unravel
the enchantment beguiling the aspect. This skill
cannot be used unless a successful Insight check has
ben made (see below). Up to four characters can aid
on this check. This skill can earn a maximum of 2
successes.
Bluff (DC 30): The character fabricates evidence
against Dakranad. In addition to counting as two failures,
a failed check counts as two failures, closes off
future Bluff checks, and each new attempt results in
1 more automatic failure. This skill can earn a maximum
of 4 successes.
Diplomacy (DC 26): The character cites truthful
evidence about Dakranad’s corruption or recounts
the party’s past alliance with the Platinum Dragon.
This skill can earn a maximum of 4 successes.
Insight (DC 31): The character identifies that
the aspect of Moradin has been ensorcelled by the
mithral dragon. A successful check counts as 0 successes
but opens up use of the Arcana skill.
Religion (DC 17): The character recalls Moradin’s
character and shows how the aspect’s actions are
at odds with the god’s nature. This skill can earn a
maximum of 1 success.
Success: The characters break the enchantment
and the aspect of Moradin realizes that the mithral
dragon tricked him. Enraged by this, he urges the
characters to venture to Bahamut’s Palace (if the
characters haven’t yet been there) or to the Bridge
of al-Sihal (if the characters have already been to
Bahamut’s Palace). Alternatively, if Amyria is still
with the characters, the aspect gives them the creation
spark and advises them to seek the Bridge of
al-Sihal to witness Bahamut’s imminent return.
Failure: The aspect of Moradin believes the
characters are trying to trick him. He commands his
servants to attack.[/sblock]