Your Move? Kickstarter and the Evolution of Game Crowdfunding

The global recession hit the game industry hard, forcing developers to find new ways to fund their games. Crowdfunding has become a viable alternative, fueling a renaissance across all forms of game development. But like other kinds of crowdsourcing, crowdfunding is only effective as long as the crowd believes in supporting it. Will Kickstarter's high profile failures cause gamers to seek new crowdfunding models?

The global recession hit the game industry hard, forcing developers to find new ways to fund their games. Crowdfunding has become a viable alternative, fueling a renaissance across all forms of game development. But like other kinds of crowdsourcing, crowdfunding is only effective as long as the crowd believes in supporting it. Will Kickstarter's high profile failures cause gamers to seek new crowdfunding models?

[h=3]The Crowdfunding Landscape[/h]Kickstarter isn't the only crowdfunding platform but it's one of the most popular, particularly with game developers:

Gaming start ups receive the most money, according to GameSpot. The games category on Kickstarter is the biggest overall in terms of dollars pledged. Since launch, people have pledged $215.75 million to gaming-related Kickstarters, with $189.84 million of those dollars going to successful campaigns. Gaming projects on Kickstarter have a success rate of 35.15 percent, the fourth-worst overall, only behind technology (34.79 percent), Publishing (32.29 percent), and fashion (29.3 percent).


Jeffrey Dufseth, one of three developers and owners at http://Houserule.com, said:

Tabletop gaming isn’t just a niche market, it’s about a dozen niche markets. Many gamers play a variety of games, but some only like dungeon crawls, story games, crunchy games, or collaborative games. Others only play one system or another. Crowdfunding is important because it matches up the products with the people interested in them. Investors will often desire a mass appeal, and crowdfunding allows truly creative and possibly experimental games to see print. This creativity is important for the players as well as the future of the hobby as a whole.


As of September 15, Kickstarter was cresting $2 billion in dollars pledged to 92,438 successfully Kickstarted projects. 19,620 of those projects were games, with $355 million successfully pledged and $40 million unsuccessful. This puts the games category at 33 percent success, which beats out technology (20%), publishing (29%), food (26%), fashion (24%), photography (29%), journalism (23%) and crafts (24%). Of those failed 12,765 game projects, 1,535 were never funded at all.

Tabletop gaming is not immune to the fail rate that plagues the gaming category on Kickstarter. Erik Tenkar succinctly shares that the path of good intentions is littered with broken dreams:

The most famous failure that I personally backed is probably Mike Nystul's Trio - Axes & Anvils, Infinite Dungeons and Cairn. Blow the money on office space, staff and a failed con - leave none to actually fulfill the Kickstarts that were funded. Mike's communications were full of lies. Mike is far from alone.


Tenkar references Mike Nystul's three failed Kickstarters, which BoardGameGeek summarizes:

This is really a rather old tale of how too-rapid growth can kill a company. The new twist in the crowdfunding era is that you no longer necessarily control how fast your company grows – and, for the ill-prepared, scrambling for stretch goals can leave you in the lurch when you later realize how expensive those can be.


Tenkar's list of failed RPG Kickstarters is long: Myth & Magic, Quantum Roleplaying, and Appendix N. I can add to the list Miniature Sea Monsters, Dungeon Furniture and Big Beasts. In every one of these cases, all the Kickstarter comments section are filled with references to lawsuits and demands for money back. Some of these Kickstarters are years past their fulfillment dates.

Why are these Kickstarters failing?
[h=3]Manufacturing: It Ain't for Everybody[/h]
One of the challenges of the new crowdfunding model is how it can sometimes skip distributors and retailers, requiring project creators to work directly with manufacturers. This is a specific issue for tabletop games, as miniature and board games live and die by their components. Jonathan Wilson shared lessons learned as he fulfills two Kickstarters (I'm a backer of both Tabletop Props: Covered Wagon and Tabletop Props: Tent), and his experience is illustrative of the challenges the industry faces as a whole.

The first lesson Wilson learned was that he needed to work out gaps in communication with a factory in a different part of the world. There are language, cultural, and time zone barriers that must be overcome:

The factory and I are in opposite time zones. This means they don’t even get to work until about 8pm my time. If I’m lucky, they’ll respond to my emails as soon as they show up to work, which means I’ll get the first correspondence by 9pm. If I immediately reply, we may be able to start a conversation, via email or Skype, but that usually didn’t happen. Most often, I would wake up in the morning and hope they responded while I slept. Imagine a conversation where you can only ask one question and get one reply, once a day (if you’re lucky).


There are also challenges with security:

Internet security overseas isn’t quite up to our standards, you have to be careful. Their email account was hacked, they watched and waited. As soon as payment was communicated, the hackers jumped in. They intercepted emails, replying to mine as the factory, using the same verbiage, same name, same email address, same signature. It all looked legit, but something just didn’t sit well with me. They messed up a few times and I called them on it, literally. I called the factory, verbally spoke with my contact, and exposed the compromise to their security. This was a minor delay, but a scary one.


Complicating global Kickstarters is the fact that miniatures are considered toys in some parts of the world:

When I launched the Kickstarter, I was still thinking of my product as a “miniature”. When I started researching packaging, testing, tariffs and such, I learned my product is technically a “toy”. Being a toy has a lot of problems. The legal testing and packaging regulations are second only to consumables. Of course, there is no standard for any of these regulations, almost every country is different.


Wilson's Kickstarters are progressing nicely, but the same can't be said for everyone who is far less forthcoming about their Kickstarters' progress (or lack thereof). There are plenty of other challenges too: time, management of funds, and the mental health of the creator who juggles other obligations.

A Kickstarer project that I contributed to for Jeffrey Thomas' Punktown encountered many of these same issues. The text was written by a team, including myself, but there's more to a book than just text; layout, graphics, and production require the cooperation of a lot of other folks. It's over two years late but progressing well.

Fred Hicks, Co-President and Founder and Carrie Harris, Marketing Manager, at Evil Hat Productions, said of the Kickstarter model:

It’s a model that has worked well for us. But as consumers, we’ve also been burnt by Kickstarters. They’re incredibly complicated to run, and it’s easy to stumble into problems if you’re not prepared. Since the start, we’ve made it our policy to be as transparent as possible with our crowdfunding efforts so that others can learn from our successes and our mistakes. More successful crowdfunding means we all win, so we’re in support of that.

Perhaps the worst thing that can happen to a crowdfunded project is reaching its goals. The Doom that Came to Atlantic City is a dire story of what can happen to game developers when things go horribly awry.
[h=3]The Doom That Came to Kickstarter[/h]
The Doom that Came to Atlantic City was a Monopoly-inspired game that, like the much more popular Cthulhu Wars, put the player in the role of a Great Old One destroying the Earth. It was launched as a Kickstarter by The Forking Path on May 7, 2012 and concluded on June 6, 2012 well over its $35,000 goal, surpassing $122,000:

The Doom is a labor of love and terror from three exceptional talents. It is the brainchild of artist Lee Moyer, inspired by his love of the Cthulhu Mythos and disdain for a certain board game that shall not be named. Game designer Keith Baker is best known for the Origins Award winning card game Gloom, and he brings the same dark sense of humor to the devastation of Atlantic City. Keith and Lee have enlisted the help of their friend Paul Komoda to design some of the more eldritch visual elements of the game. His talents can be seen on-screen in the prequel to John Carpenter's The Thing and Cabin In The Woods. He brings that vision and long association with H. R. Giger to his designs of the Great Old Ones.​


The Kickstarter's promised rewards never materialized. Worse, by The Forking Path principal Eric Chevalier's own admission, the Kickstarter wasn't funding a game, it was funding the company to LAUNCH the game:

From the beginning the intention was to launch a new board game company with the Kickstarted funds, with The Doom that Came to Atlantic City as only our first of hopefully many projects. Everyone involved agreed on this. Since then rifts have formed and every error compounded the growing frustration, causing only more issues. After paying to form the company, for the miniature statues, moving back to Portland, getting software licenses and hiring artists to do things like rule book design and art conforming the money was approaching a point of no return. We had to print at that point or never. Unfortunately that wasn't in the cards for a variety of reasons.


Keith Baker responded on his blog:

When Lee and I first heard this news from Erik, it came as a shock. We’ve been working on this game for over a decade. In 2011 we had it ready to go to the printer with Z-Man Games, until a change in ownership dropped it from production. Based on the information we’d been receiving from the Forking Path we believed that the game was in production. It’s a personal and financial blow to both of us, but what concerns Lee and I is that people who believed in our work and put their faith in this Kickstarter have been let down... Lee and I don’t know exactly how the money was spent, why the backers were misled, what challenges were faced or what drove the decisions that led to the cancellation of the game. Not only did we not make any money from the game, we have actually lost money; as soon as we learned the true state of affairs, we engaged a lawyer to compel The Forking Path to come forward to the backers and to honor its pledge to issue refunds.


Baker made it clear that he and Lee Moyer received none of the funds raised by the Kickstarter and promised to produce a print-and-play version of the game at no cost. As for the fact that Chevalier created a company, not a game, with the funds:

The company I started was meant to provide a framework for supporting The Doom that Came to Atlantic City with how-to-play videos, supplementary add-ons, and general customer support. The software licensed was needed to process art for press and do layout of elements such as the rulebook. The laptop used to edit the original pitch video could barely handle the high resolution files from the game's creator, so I upgraded to a desktop computer that could deal with it. The move back to Portland from California was multi-pronged, but mainly in order to work in a less expensive and more supportive community that I felt would benefit the company, and by extension its customers, in time. Whether or not you think every cent should have gone to the printer and creators, and none to the publisher, it takes money just to get a project like this ready and build the framework that will keep it going after release. My hope was to one day use that framework to support additional games and allow the company to grow, just like any other business venture, but "The Doom" was first and central to the idea of the company. Without it The Forking Path ceases to exist. I put every effort into making this work and am more frustrated than anyone with its failure.


Doom is particularly noteworthy because it's the first board game in which the Federal Trade Commission got involved:

Under the settlement order, Chevalier is prohibited from making misrepresentations about any crowdfunding campaign and from failing to honor stated refund policies. He is also barred from disclosing or otherwise benefiting from customers’ personal information, and failing to dispose of such information properly. The order imposes a $111,793.71 judgment that will be suspended due to Chevalier’s inability to pay. The full amount will become due immediately if he is found to have misrepresented his financial condition...The Commission vote authorizing the staff to file the complaint and proposed stipulated order in federal court was 5-0. The case was filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Oregon, Portland Division.


It's not just board games that have drawn attention from state officials. Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson filed a lawsuit against Ed Nash and his Nashville, Tenn.-based company, Altius Management over the company's failure to deliver on a retro-horror-themed set of playing cards titled Asylum. Of the 810 backers, 31 reported that they live in the state of Washington and the state's attorney general brought the suit on behalf of those constituents.

Chris Rowlands, host of the podcast NPC Cast, said in an interview:

Kickstarter specifically has grown up with board games and tabletop games in general have driven the evolution of the platform. It isn’t without growing pains though. An increase in backer expectations is both a symptom and a reason for the growth of Kickstarter, and I am glad that the industry is beginning to be looked at and regulated a bit more with the focus on the consumer.


The Asylum lawsuit was the first of its kind. It certainly won't be the last.
[h=3]Spoiling the Potato Salad
[/h]
There's lots of entrepreneurs trying their hands at Kickstarter. But what happens when projects are successfully funded that shouldn't be? Two Kickstarters illustrate the fickle nature of crowdfunding: the Emperor's New Clothes and Potato Salad.

The Emperor's New Clothes by Game Salute, a tabletop game netting over $6,000 from 280 backers, was created as commentary on the flaws behind the crowdfunding process:

It was also a social experiment about Kickstarter, a collection of essays about game design, a trial-run for me in running a Kickstarter campaign and working with Game Salute, and a lesson for me in unintended consequences.


To illustrate their point, the entire set of game components was blank. The "lesson of unintended consequences"? The game-that-wasn't-quite-a-game was late.

Potato Salad wasn't even a game. It was...a guy trying to crowdsource potato salad. It netted nearly 7,000 backers contributing over $55,000.

For a potato salad.

It was also a turning point for Kickstarter:

This, of course, is not what Kickstarter is set up to do, and until recently the company vetted campaigns, looking for rigorous, serious fund-raising projects. Some donors have used Brown’s potato-salad goof as a way of critiquing the new free-for-all feel of the platform or to mock the tone of Kickstarter campaigns in general (which have been mounted by small-timers and movie-making celebrities alike). The more famous the project became, and the more objections that were raised by those who were befuddled or miffed by its success, the more money it earned.


Potato Salad spawned a host of imitators hoping to make a quick buck. As one commenter put it:

Isn't Kickstarter worried about credibility after a project like this. I search "potato salad" on kickstarter and came up with over 200 copy cat potato salad kickstarters... Why is there no regulating these projects? I saw a kickstarter the other day for drawing the worlds largest p***s. Cmon, it's a slap in the face for any serious creators out there and muddles up the credibility of having a Kickstarter.


Obsidian Entertainment's Chris Avellone expressed similar concerns about Kickstarter's high profile failures to Time:

I worry about someone else failing. To quote Archer when something bad happens: “This is why we can’t have nice things.” While I’m confident in Obsidian being able to deliver a quality title, it only takes one other Kickstarter developer to ruin things for everyone else and cast doubt on the donation process going forward. We sure as hell aren’t going to drop the ball, but Kickstarter is still in its near-honeymoon period and there’s still plenty of room for failure in the future.


Shannon Appelcline echoed Avellone's concern in Designers & Dragons:

Meanwhile, I’ve been waiting for the inevitable Kickstarter bust to follow the Kickstarter boom. I was pretty certain that it was going to hit when Kickstarters started to fail to deliver. However, we’ve now had some pretty big, openly acknowledged failures like The Forking Path’s The Doom That Came to Atlantic City! and James Maliszewski’s Dwimmermount — with many more Kickstarters like e2 and Nystul’s Infinite Dungeon hanging about in limbo … and I haven’t seen the repercussions that I expected. Mind you, the individual creators have been taken out to the woodshed, but there still seems to be faith in the Kickstarter system. This may still be a bomb waiting to explode, as Kickstarter’s requirement for creators to list “Risks & Challenges” is so toothless as to be laughable … but I have more faith in Kickstarter continuing to work than I did a year ago.


High profile failures have become enough of a problem that Kickstarter finally responded when NPR asked what the company was doing about the high-profile cases of failed fulfillment:

We look into projects reported by our community for guidelines violations and suspicious activity, and we take action when necessary. These efforts are focused on fraud and acceptable uses of Kickstarter, not a creator's ability to complete a project and fulfill. On Kickstarter, people ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.


It's a good thing too, because the FTC has promised that the Doom that Came to Atlantic City case is just one of many as part of the battle to manage new financial technology:

This case is part of the FTC’s ongoing work to protect consumers taking advantage of new and emerging financial technology, also known as FinTech. As technological advances expand the ways consumers can store, share, and spend money, the FTC is working to keep consumers protected while encouraging innovation for consumers’ benefit.


Doug Davison, President of SmiteWorks, spoke about crowdfunding risk in an interview:

What we need to filter out is people who use KS to basically defraud backers. Hopefully the regulations will stay focused on those people. I've backed a lot of Kicstarter projects personally and it's safe to say that I've been disappointed in a few of them. I would still back them if I had it to do all over again, though, because I like the idea of supporting people who are giving their best effort -- succeed or fail.


Crowdfunding has become a lot more complicated since Kickstarter debuted, but in a new era modeled after software startups, creators sometimes launch first and figure it out as they go. This might work fine for angel investors who understand the risks, but for the tightly knit gamer community it's a model that is in danger of losing its credibility. Tim Roven of Tabletop Audio spoke of crowdfunding's gray area between pre-ordering and investing in an interview:

When you invest, it’s understood that there are inherent risks, however, people don’t associate pre-ordering with any risk at all. I think Kickstarter is making some positive moves to mitigate some of the more publicized recent failures. Crowdfunding in general is still a great tool that allows companies to afford the huge upfront costs of producing and manufacturing physical goods.


Mike Mearls, Senior Manager for Dungeons & Dragons at Wizards of the Coast, looks at Kickstarter contributions as donations, not investments:

I think crowdfunding is a great concept, and I also think it’s good that people overall are developing a better sense for what’s realistic in terms of projects. Personally, I don’t use Kickstarter anywhere near as much as I used to. My personal approach is this – someone is asking me to invest in their startup, but without selling me an ownership stake. Instead, they’ll send me some product as a thank you for my donation. Am I OK with that?


With over 50 Kickstarters with FTC complaints, it's perhaps no surprise that gamers are beginning to look elsewhere to fund their games.
[h=3]Crowdfunding's Next Evolution?[/h]
Some of the criticisms leveled at Kickstarter -- the failure of successfully crowdfunded projects, the lack of accountability -- are addressed by an older funding model with a new platform, Patreon:

The online service Patreon is aiming to change that by connecting fans and creators to form long-lasting relationships that are based on supporting the artist, not trying to raise funds for individual projects that may or may not get made. Patreon works sort of like Kickstarter in that fans pledge money, but they support their favourite creators rather than specific projects. Patreon users commit to monthly payments to artists or agree to help fund ongoing artistic work and in return receive various rewards. Like Kickstarter, most Patreon campaigns have different tiers of support funding and offer perks for each tier. The levels of funding vary from artist to artist, but usually there is some basic level of support, such as $1 per month, and tiers that plateau in a pricey premium level that often offers access to the artist or unique rewards. It turns out membership does have its privileges.


Patreon minimizes risk by putting the onus on a creator to produce. Glenn Peoples at Billboard explains the shift:

Six-year-old Kickstarter, perhaps the best-known crowdfunding site, received $529 million from 3.3 million pledgers in 2014 alone. GoFundMe, IndieGoGo and other crowdfunding services have also become popular platforms for raising money for single projects like albums, tours and medical bills. Patreon is different. It lets fans provide ongoing financial support for creators of small things like songs, podcasts, videos and drawings. Patrons give money either per "thing" or per time period (a week or month).


Benjamin Loomes, Half-elf Bard/Paladin and Creative Director of Syrinscape, supports a similar approach to crowdfunding:

Patreon is very useful as the support is continuing and people can help content creators plan for the future and deliver a continuing stream of excellent material. Patreon is something that the Dicestormers are very interested in, and Syrinscape’s own version of Patreon – the Syrinscape Subscription, is one of the best ways that Syrinscape users and fans can support our company, now and in the future, helping us to continually create amazing content, to make tabletop gaming the best experience we can possibly make it.

Tabletop Audio has nearly 200 patrons contributing over $450 per month. Tim Roven explained:

I’m a big fan of Patreon. It’s perfect for content creators like me who don’t need to raise funds for manufacturing or production. It allows people to become patrons of creators, to support them with, in my case, monthly donations. It’s great to be able to count on these donations to defray my increasing hosting and bandwidth bills.


Evil Hat Productions is also doing well on Patreon, with over 700 patrons contributing over $4,000 per product:

After we put Fate Core out into the world, we heard from a lot of people who wanted a little help starting campaigns and building adventures, and we’ve always been excited to show all the things this system can do. So we launched our Worlds of Adventure Patreon campaign in early 2014. We started releasing them in earnest last summer, and we were so happy with the results that we’re moving as many of them as possible into print. We don’t see that as replacing our crowdfunding efforts, though. It’s our goal to give people a variety of options to access our games and to add value to every one.


My own Patreon enabled me to quit the Examiner content mill. And of course there's EN World, which has its Pathfinder publication, TRAILseeker (146 patrons at $377 per article) and Fifth Edition D&D publication, En5ider (825 patrons at over $2,000 per article).

Patreon's growth is startling. As of June 2015, the site averaged more than 15,000 creators signing up and 16 million pages views per month:

Google Trends shows an increasing number of people are heading to Patreon. In the last 12 months, Patreon's Google search traffic has roughly doubled and, in the United States, has gone from 77% below Indiegogo' traffic to 5% above it. Although it has made gains on Kickstarter, Patreon has only 7% of its bigger cousin's global traffic.


Crowdfunding models leverage the strengths of the Internet: speed, access, and individuals making it big through the support of the crowd. We seem to be in a sort of grand social experiment as the crowd -- us -- learns what level of risk we're willing to tolerate in pursuit of an awesome game. Kickstarter may be here to stay, but if the growth of Patreon is any indication we can expect more contributor-to-artist models in the near future.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, and communicator. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
I agree with Koloth for the most part. For me, when a project is in that grey area, I get unnerved a bit.
By grey area I mean they didnt just take off on a Carribbean Cruise, but did SOME work on the project, then decided "f*ck it" and dont finish.

Sometimes this comes out in a stream of sob stories like "Well, I had to get my car registered this month, so I couldnt do anything" to "I had a cold", or "I moved", or "I'm working a lot of hours now". Usually these happen after months of no updates.

Or, the cases where the creator buys more office space (<-for a product that hasnt been created yet!), or gets themselves a new car, or travels across the country to go to conventions, and/or pays themselves a salary out of the funds. My opinion is if that is what you are going to use it for, then say so in the Kickstarter front page. It does, however; seem that courts may consider those as viable activities, even when it means you dont have to cash to complete your project anymore.

This doesn't mean you are without recourse. The recent FTC inquiries are a big win for Project Backers. If your project is way behind, you should first try and contact the project creator and work it out. There is a contract via Kickstarter that details their responsibilities.

I have found that the only thing Kickstarter is active about is that they will smack you down if you post a Project Creator's personal information in the comments (even if the creator is a deadbeat). Yes,that's right, Kickstarter can take their percent of your money, but if you post where and to whom it went geographically, you are the bad guy.

You can also file a complaint with the Attorney General's office of the State in which they reside, as long as you have the information concerning their name, address, etc. If they incorporated as a business, you can often get that by looking up the business license (usually LLC) online. Some State's Attorney General's are responsive and some aren't.

If you really are convinced this has been a case of fraud, you can file a complaint with the Internet Crimes Complaint Center
www.ic3.gov

But you will likely need some kind of evidence

The unfortunate lesson I learned form the Center Stage Miniatures debacle was that if you really want to pursue how the money was spent (via a civil suit), you probably need to hire an attorney in the city where the project creator lives, so unless you pledged at the $5000 level for something, you end up spending more money on an attorney (who may or may not understand Kickstarter) than the money you actually pledged to the project in the first place.

In the case of Matt Solarz/ Center Stage Miniatures, he managed to declare bankruptcy, and none of the backers were able to hire an attorney to gain access to a detailed review of how the funds were spent. A Trustee (rated almost as bad as a lawyer can get) and their boss looked over the data and didnt find anything wrong (despite lack of accurate documents). Also, dont expect much cooperation. After I initially contacted the Trustee, this was part of his response:

"But, frankly, the bankruptcy schedules say that your claim is only $250.00. I just don’t understand why you are apparently willing to invest all the time and energy over a small claim."

The worst part about the Matt Solarz/CSM debacle is that unless the Bankruptcy Trustee decides he can pay for his own/the court's time by selling off the minis that were manufactured with backers money,(which is unlikely), the property (minis) go right back to the deadbeat Project Creator.

A parting piece of info is that I learned it is a good practice not to back a second Kickstarter project until the first one is fulfilled, no matter how good the hype is.

Hope this helps some of you
 

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talien

Community Supporter
Monthly updates with nothing to share...and who foots the bill on your 1yr refund? Kickstarter funds are available immediately at fund...precisely to be spent, if the money is just sitting there in a bank account a year later then what was the point of the project? Even the 100% fraudster is spending that cash!!

Are the block text quotes in this article correctly attributed to their sources?

Is there a specific quote that isn't? Happy to fix if that's the case.
 

crazy_cat

Adventurer
Worth noting that Dwimmermount did actually deliver in the end, albeit very late - James M just went quiet and gave up (for whatever reasons) but Autarch (the publishers) soldiered on and eventually got it out the door.
 

Von Ether

Legend
I've backed 12 Microsystems so far. Only one is still late, but the organizer has started monthly updates. All the others have delivered, but few of them have done it on time.
 

Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
Worth noting that Dwimmermount did actually deliver in the end, albeit very late - James M just went quiet and gave up (for whatever reasons) but Autarch (the publishers) soldiered on and eventually got it out the door.

Same thing with Space 1889 (Angus Abranson/Chronicle City) wasnt doing anything, so Cublicle stepped in (German publisher) and things have been working out. Cubicle has been respectful and transparent.

Other companies like Conquistador Games who did the "Best Damn Metal Gaming Coins Ever!" delivered last coins in April 2015 (estimated delivery Nov 2013), then changed their name to Artana LLC, but are still using Game Salute (who apparently changed their name to Ship Naked). I wouldnt trust projects coming out of ether of these companies
 

crazy_cat

Adventurer
Chaosiums Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition is my latest running RPG Kickstarter - due in October 2013, somewhat optimistically, and still nothing physical actually delivered, although we do now have some PDFs after Chaosium nearly went bust and were bought out!

Also piss poor is the Timewatch Kickstarter - by Kevin Kulp (Piratecat on ENWorld) in partnership with Pelgrane Press! Due in November 2014 and 'The game is designed, playtested, and over 80% written' when seeking funding this has yet to see even a first draft handed over to Pelgrane; and Pelgrane have stepped in on comms (which still aren't exactly brilliant) as things had just gone quiet from KK in the face of backer questions about (the lack of) progress.

I really do think companies/people need to think lomg and hard before using Kickstater to fund their projects - because it requires you to engage regularly and honestly with consumers in a way which old traditional 'publicise and sell it when its ready' publishing didn't; and the damage it does your reputation if you don't may be hard to recover from. KK/Pelgrane and Chaosium have got my money on these - but have lost me as a future backer or supporter; personally I'll never back anything they fund via Kickstarter ever again, and will actively warn others about them and their inability to deliver and treat their customers with the most basic respect.
 

Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
Chaosiums Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition is my latest running RPG Kickstarter - due in October 2013, somewhat optimistically, and still nothing physical actually delivered, although we do now have some PDFs after Chaosium nearly went bust and were bought out!

Also piss poor is the Timewatch Kickstarter - by Kevin Kulp (Piratecat on ENWorld) in partnership with Pelgrane Press! Due in November 2014 and 'The game is designed, playtested, and over 80% written' when seeking funding this has yet to see even a first draft handed over to Pelgrane; and Pelgrane have stepped in on comms (which still aren't exactly brilliant) as things had just gone quiet from KK in the face of backer questions about (the lack of) progress.

I really do think companies/people need to think lomg and hard before using Kickstater to fund their projects - because it requires you to engage regularly and honestly with consumers in a way which old traditional 'publicise and sell it when its ready' publishing didn't; and the damage it does your reputation if you don't may be hard to recover from. KK/Pelgrane and Chaosium have got my money on these - but have lost me as a future backer or supporter; personally I'll never back anything they fund via Kickstarter ever again, and will actively warn others about them and their inability to deliver and treat their customers with the most basic respect.

That is the one aspect that is at least encouraging, that with the internet, you can kind of warn people away from projects where backers are not treated properly. I'm glad when people do this. I looked at a few projects recently in terms of the KS items soon becoming available at retail, but if it seems your backers were treated poorly, I won't support the company.

My experience is that Pelgrane is chronically slow in communication even with their own books. Not that that excuses it, but at least I know that going in. They have delivered wonderfully in terms of high quality products though.

The one company that seems to get a pass on being consistently late, having errors show up,and not treating backers well is (IMHO) Onyx Path. The V20 Companion should have just doomed them outright with the number of mistakes made, but I guess old White Wolf fans are hungry for endless rehashes.
 

Roger

First Post
I think the article failed to blame one very blame-worthy party: the backers.

Specifically, backers who think Kickstarter is some sort of complicated pre-order system.

Kickstarter is not a pre-order system.

A few companies have used it as a pre-order system, which has introduced its own problems, but that doesn't change anything.

The backers are not buyers; they are venture capitalists. Sometimes those ventures fail. Maybe even most of the time. That's pretty much how venture capitalism works.



Cheers,
Roger
 

Grimstaff

Explorer
Worth noting that Dwimmermount did actually deliver in the end, albeit very late - James M just went quiet and gave up (for whatever reasons) but Autarch (the publishers) soldiered on and eventually got it out the door.

Autarch got *something* out (and this is no knock against them, they by all rights could have just walked away), but it was not exactly what pledgers paid for, it when they expected it.

To me, Dwimmermount is a classic example of a Kickstarter that never should have happened. James M. gave us an awesome blog - it was his passion, and varied enough in subject to keep him coming back with near-ridiculous amounts of great content. Then the Kickstarter comes in, and the *hobby* becomes a *job*. So the money gets spent but the work doesn't get done - you can't just walk away from it when you feel like it, like a hobby.

In the end, backers got a door prize, a great blog went silent, and James M is likely too embarrassed to show his face in the gaming community again, which is really the biggest shame out of the whole thing.
 

Rygar

Explorer
Couple of points to make...

1. The Recession didn't hit gaming hard. Video game sales were up substantially over 2007, the number I'm seeing is 19%. Video game sales in 2009 were apparently around ~11% higher than 2007. We should probably look for another explanation for any decline the tabletop industry witnessed, as it is clear that people were still spending on gaming, just not gaming in the tabletop industry.

2. Patreon is slowly being poisoned. A group of people are using it to support themselves instead of generating products from it. People aren't hearing about ENWorld's (Wonderful) digital content, they're hearing about persons generating thousands a month while producing nothing other than passing off trolling as activism.

The model that's going to take over is the investment model, where many people invest money for shares of returns. That's going to bring in venture capitalists, weed out the scams, and produce quality products. Patreon's a dead model because they failed to take care of people taking advantage of other people for personal profit. With Kickstarter I know that they'll shut down obvious scams and the courts have backed legal actions, with the investment model I know the legal system will handle anyone scamming, with Patreon I've no real protection against scams.
 

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