Super Simple Armor

Yaarel

He Mage
Why (in game) would you not be able to benefit from a shield while wearing plate? That seems pretty strange.

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In reallife, most full plate suit warriors stopped using a shield, because it was mostly redundant, and preferred using two-handed swords.

But you are right. Looking at historical suits of armor, enough of them have shields that there must have been some benefit, even if it was worth trading it for a more damaging sword.
 

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In reallife, most full plate suit warriors stopped using a shield, because it was mostly redundant, and preferred using two-handed swords.

But you are right. Looking at historical suits of armor, enough of them have shields that there must have been some benefit, even if it was worth trading it for a more damaging sword.
If your opponent was also wearing plate armor, then you might have trouble making them feel a hit if you didn't have two hands behind your blow. And the shield would have been mostly redundant, since the armor was sufficient protection against pretty much anything you were likely to face. At least, that's how I understand it. I know that most of the old pictures of knights in plate armor featured them with a sword in both hands instead of with a shield, unless they were jousting.

Mechanically speaking, shields make it less likely that you'll be hit in the first place, and plate armor reduces the amount of damage from those hits you don't intercept. In a more-detailed game system, shields usually increase your avoidance, while armor provides damage reduction. I've always thought it was kind of weird in D&D or WoW, where both armor and shield provide the same kind of defense (avoidance in D&D, or damage reduction in WoW), such that there's very little point to ever having one but not the other. You rarely see lightly-armored warriors with a big shield, or heavily-armored warriors with a big sword, like you do in some other games (or, as I understand it, you might have seen in history).
 

mrpopstar

Sparkly Dude
Probably a shield deserves max Dex 4 as well, similar to light armor. Otherwise, it feels weird for rogues to be slipping about with a shield in their hand. This also makes the awkwardness of Mage Armor + real shield, less optimal. Simply one shield is slightly less optimal than medium metal armor.

Maximum AC Possible
• AC 15 = unarmored 10 + (full Dex 5)
• AC 16 = unarmored 10 + shield 2 + (max Dex 4)
• AC 16 = light armor 12 + (max Dex 4)
• AC 17 = medium armor 15 + (max Dex 2)
• AC 18 = light armor 12 + shield 2 + (max Dex 4)
• AC 18 = heavy armor 18 + (no Dex)
• AC 18 = Mage Armor 13 + (full Dex 5)
• AC 19 = Mage Armor 13 + shield 2 + (max Dex 4)
• AC 19 = medium armor 15 + shield 2 + (max Dex 2)
• AC 20 = heavy armor 18 + shield 2 + (no Dex)
I strongly considered making the shield +1 so that only those with Defensive fighting style would net the coveted AC 20.
 

I strongly considered making the shield +1 so that only those with Defensive fighting style would net the coveted AC 20.
AC 20 is significantly less-coveted than it used to be. AC 20 won't stop anything reliably. Gone are the days when you could actually have confidence that your armor might stop an attack. Nowadays, even a common kobold is walking around with +4 to hit.

From a character perspective, it's pretty depressing.
 

mrpopstar

Sparkly Dude
AC 20 is significantly less-coveted than it used to be. AC 20 won't stop anything reliably. Gone are the days when you could actually have confidence that your armor might stop an attack. Nowadays, even a common kobold is walking around with +4 to hit.

From a character perspective, it's pretty depressing.
I like combat to be a bloody affair.

;)
 
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guachi

Hero
Why are you so tempted?

:)

In the most basic terms, barbarian, cleric, druid, fighter, paladin and ranger are proficient with medium armor. Let's work from that baseline.

I'm tempted to lower the STR requirement to 11 because I think that 13 is too penalizing and most medium armor in real life isn't that heavy. I've worn modern body armor that's about as heavy as medium armor and it's not really restricting.
 

I like combat to be a bloody affair.
I'm sorry to hear that. The 5E rules are really working against you there. Do you have some sort of house rules, to combat the fact that it's impossible for anyone to survive losing more blood in a fight than they are capable of regenerating overnight?

Personally, I prefer players to really feel it when they get hurt. When your fighter gets stabbed, you should know that something terrible has happened, and the player should start panicking. That generally means that the PCs shouldn't be getting hit in every combat, but that hits which do land should deal at least a third of their total HP, which will not recover overnight. (Again, though, the 5E rules are really working against me on that one. The default rules really favor using lots of minions to bloodlessly pummel the PCs into exhaustion over the course of a long day.)
 

Yaarel

He Mage
I'm sorry to hear that. The 5E rules are really working against you there. Do you have some sort of house rules, to combat the fact that it's impossible for anyone to survive losing more blood in a fight than they are capable of regenerating overnight?

Personally, I prefer players to really feel it when they get hurt. When your fighter gets stabbed, you should know that something terrible has happened, and the player should start panicking. That generally means that the PCs shouldn't be getting hit in every combat, but that hits which do land should deal at least a third of their total HP, which will not recover overnight. (Again, though, the 5E rules are really working against me on that one. The default rules really favor using lots of minions to bloodlessly pummel the PCs into exhaustion over the course of a long day.)

I am still experimenting to find an ideal mechanic. But one thing is certain, that hitting zero hit points hurts. Those are the lethal wounds, and if survived, leave a scar of some kind.

Where zero hit points is a threat to ‘life and limb’, it may result in physical damage rather than death, such as the impairment or even loss of a limb − at least a fatigue-like condition.

I also want to separate Constitution bonus hit points ( = meat points) into a separate pool from all other hit points ( = nonphysical skill/energy/luck points). Then the Constitution hit points take longer to heal. Here the system works better 4e style, where the Constitution score is a one-time sizable bonus without later additions while leveling.

I am still planning future experiments. I want a simple-as-possible elegant mechanic that hits all the right possibilities that feel realistic.

That said. Normal, nonlethal damage (before reaching zero hit points) feels more realistic when it is mainly superficial damage that heals easily, because it comes with no mechanical conditions or consequences. It is only the zero hit points that I feel the players should fear.



Heh. It just occurred to me. Maybe bandaging a wound to heal hit points, should instead be temporary hit points that exist only as long as the bandage stays on. If these temporary hit points get damaged, it means the bandages are ruined and the wounds need to be re-treated. The characters wear the bandages for as long as it takes to heal naturally, while real hit points replace the temporary hit points. The need to remember that the characters are still wearing bandages (and balms and continually cleaning wounds) helps the players feel that characters did get injured.

Anyway, like I said, I am still experimenting to get an injury system that works well for me.
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
I strongly considered making the shield +1 so that only those with Defensive fighting style would net the coveted AC 20.

I get that. Considering that.

I guess when thinking about reallife, a shield is highly effective, it is just that it seems highly cumbersome too. At least here, the +2 shield makes sense, but with a max Dex punishment.

My gut instinct is that a shield feels like ‘medium armor’. So one would pretty much never see a rogue or monk with a shield. Normal people benefit alot from a shield. But for any exceptional people who defend themselves ‘gymnastically’, the shield just gets in the way.

Similar goes for helmet. In reallife, Florida abolished the law that required motorcyclists to wear a helmet. Statistics showed the helmet was just as likely to impair their visibility as it was to protect them from an injury. So in terms of preventing injuries, the helmet was a wash. Removing the law was a notable moment of rational thinking. Individual motorcyclists choose whether they feel safer with a helmet or without it.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
While players choose what they want their armor style and materials to look like, the following rule of thumb seems to be in play.

LIGHT ARMOR
full fabric armor
(arms and legs too: boiled leather, padding, layers, fur)
light helmet
(face uncovered)

MEDIUM ARMOR
metal armor
(torso only: chain, lamellar scales, laminar bands, plate)
medium helmet
(nose guard)
shield
(!) (shield is medium armor and incurs max Dex 2)

HEAVY ARMOR
full metal armor
(for arms and legs: chain, long thin splints, plate, shield can count for arms)
heavy helmet
(face covered: eye slits, spectacle guard, cheek guards)



Thoughts.
• Light armor definitely deserves a max Dex. The max Dex 4 is a good idea.
• Light armor and heavy armor are both more likely to see two-handed weapons.
• Medium armor is more likely to be sword-and-board.
• Dragon hide can substitute metal for medium and heavy.
• Average humans have Dex 2 or less, thus benefit from medium armor, and should wear it if affordable.
• Wealthy Greek hoplites seem to enjoy ‘heavy armor’, with bronze plate cuirass for torso, bronze shin-guard greaves, and the shield seems to count as metal arm protection. This large shield partly hung on the shoulder, and well secured to arm and hand, to make carrying it easier, and it seems to serve as coverage for shoulders, hip, and groin area.
• A Roman laminar banded armor for one arm only, counts as a shield, as part of medium armor.
• A low-level rogue with Dex 3 still benefits slightly from a shield, but at upper levels with Dex 5, the shield just gets in the way.
 
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