Waterdeep: Dragon Heist and the old splintering the fan base chestnut...

HawaiiSteveO · Aug 22, 2018

Reynard said:
Why do you think that? You don't think the setting of Waterdeep and the particular factions and Realms elements that implies will be integral to the adventure? And if not, why would WotC bother nailing it to Waterdeep so solidly in the marketing? Have any of the previous adventures been generic enough to convert to a setting as specific as Eberron (or, say, Darksun or Planescape) on the fly?

I can see both sides, FR is 'vanilla' enough that home brew folks can use it, although for sure not going to be much fun for Dark Sun etc.

It will be interesting to see how Wizards handles this when Ravnica is out. Even if most gamers homebrew Wizards still wants to sell us stuff. Well... I think they do!

Jester David · Aug 22, 2018

Reynard said:
Why do you think that? You don't think the setting of Waterdeep and the particular factions and Realms elements that implies will be integral to the adventure? And if not, why would WotC bother nailing it to Waterdeep so solidly in the marketing? Have any of the previous adventures been generic enough to convert to a setting as specific as Eberron (or, say, Darksun or Planescape) on the fly?

Because it's not that hard.
I've been converting Tomb of Annihilation to my homebrew fantasy world on the fly. And previously did the same with the 4e adventure Madness at Gardmore Abbey.

Realms elements will be included. But the Realms is generic as eff. It's easy to keep most of those and just add Eberron flavour.

I expect elements of Waterdeep to be tied to the adventure. But I also don't expect it to be impossible to convert.
The trickiest bit is flipping proper nouns on the fly. Gods, city districts, and the like. But a half-hour of prep and couple index card cheat sheets clipped to your DM screen make that effortless.
Locations are easy. Just find a parallel. Sea Ward = Dura, Dock Ward = Cliffside, Castle Ward = Central Plateau, Trade Ward = Tavick's Landing, South Ward = Menthis Plateau, North Ward = Northedge. Likely not perfect, but that took 30 seconds... Groups and organisations are trickier, but only slightly. Most common groups have easy established counterparts that serve a similar function. It's easy to replace the Xanathar's Guild with Daask, and the Masked Lords just become the City Council. For those without a comparative match, just move the group over wholesale.
Other details like shops, NPCs, and the like can just be used as is.

The descriptions and boxed text will need to be dumped. So the DM will need to paraphrase and insert Sharn elements and flavour. That requires a little more invention and creativity. But less than making an entire adventure yourself.

To answer your other question: why would WotC bother nailing it to Waterdeep so solidly in the marketing?
Because it's better to have some default flavour and setting than no setting and require DMs to invent a city on their own. The Realms is a placeholder rather than generic names (like early 1e and BECMI effectively was) or a setting that is made up for adventure (like 4e).

ccs · Aug 22, 2018

Reynard said:
Why do you think that? You don't think the setting of Waterdeep and the particular factions and Realms elements that implies will be integral to the adventure?

I'm not JD, but I'm positive (based upon decades of xp doing so) that you can take nearly anything & change a few names, re-assign motives, discard a reference or two/add a reference or two, maybe add a few details to spackle over holes & cracks, and run one adventure in an unrelated setting. And have essentially the same adventure.
But you don't need my decades of xp to do this. Just an imagination.

Reynard said:
And if not, why would WotC bother nailing it to Waterdeep so solidly in the marketing?

Because $. They know exactly how well FR branded stuff sells. And like it or not, FR sells better than everything else.
(WHY it sells better is its own thread topic though)

Reynard said:
Have any of the previous adventures been generic enough to convert to a setting as specific as Eberron (or, say, Darksun or Planescape) on the fly?

Yes, all of them.

Define "On the fly" though.

HawaiiSteveO · Aug 22, 2018

jasper said:
Yes all adventure league adventures/modules/books are great for homebrew. And as homebrew you can change the various hooks to fit your group.

Edit to add.
Consider the Season 4 adventures as add on stuff to go along with the book. Or as stand alone for people who did not have the time to run thru the whole book.

Really interesting. Took a quick peek at dmsguild and AL adventures really hit or miss review wise. I always thought AL was for drop in players at game store and were one shot basic encounters with players that may or may not come back next time?

Hmm now I can't decide on Eberron Dragon Heist or AL series... wow I have a choice of products go figure!

delericho · Aug 22, 2018

HawaiiSteveO said:
Took a quick peek at dmsguild and AL adventures really hit or miss review wise. I always thought AL was for drop in players at game store and were one shot basic encounters with players that may or may not come back next time?

Close. They're short adventures intended for a fixed duration (3 hours?). It is indeed the case that the players may or may not come back, so they're very much self-contained.

It's not particularly surprising that the reviews are a bit hit or miss. I'd stick with only the 'good' ones.

Hmm now I can't decide on Eberron Dragon Heist or AL series... wow I have a choice of products go figure!

Or you could homebrew your own Eberron adventures?

HawaiiSteveO · Aug 22, 2018

delericho said:
Close. They're short adventures intended for a fixed duration (3 hours?). It is indeed the case that the players may or may not come back, so they're very much self-contained.

It's not particularly surprising that the reviews are a bit hit or miss. I'd stick with only the 'good' ones.

Or you could homebrew your own Eberron adventures?

Not sure how I can pick the good ones if I buy them for around $4 each (Canadian) as they come out!

I'd love to make my own adventures if I had the time...

delericho · Aug 22, 2018

HawaiiSteveO said:
Not sure how I can pick the good ones if I but them for around $4 each (Canadian) as they come out!

Wait a bit and then buy the ones you want?

Bear in mind that if you're using them for your home game, there's also no reason to stick to only the Eberron AL adventures - just use whatever adventures happen to fit best with what you're doing.

Reynard · Aug 22, 2018

ccs said:
Define "On the fly" though.

There's the rub. I have no doubt one could convert Waterdeep: Dragon Heist to Sharn: Daelkyr Heist or whatever. I'm just suspicious of the idea of doing it on the fly with no real prep -- and making it actually feel like it belongs in the world of Eberron I mean. The powers that be, the relationships between gods and mortals, the structure of the nations and the basic premises of the adventurers' place in the world are pretty different between the Realms and Eberron and Planescape and Darksun. I would think that any adventure that could be easily adapted to any of them on the fly was probably a pretty crappy adventure in the first place.

EDIT to add: This assessment is independent of how well someone knows a setting. So if it is your homebrew or you are super-fan knowledgeable about a setting, of course your ability to convert points that matter and make the adventure feel at home in the new setting is going to be high, where someone more casual would have to do that work in prep.

HawaiiSteveO · Aug 22, 2018

delericho said:
Wait a bit and then buy the ones you want?

Bear in mind that if you're using them for your home game, there's also no reason to stick to only the Eberron AL adventures - just use whatever adventures happen to fit best with what you're doing.

I get it thanks, just doesn't work with our group logistics. Our group is like SNL so need to have stuff planned out well in advance, but won't bore with details.