D&D 5E Question on Ranger's and traps

BookBarbarian · Oct 30, 2018

ScuroNotte said:
I guess Rangers would also set traps for Favored Enemies.
Examples could be a covered pit with spikes

How would thieves tool's help with this?

ScuroNotte said:
a trip wire that either causes a cage to fall or cause a crossbow/log with spikes to harm the victim, a pressure dependent trap that causes victim's legs to be caught in a noose and hung upside down

I'd avoid or set off with a 10 ft pole in all of these cases, but I guess you could use thieves tools to cut a wire or jam a pressure plate, but I could use other stuff too.

ScuroNotte · Oct 30, 2018

BookBarbarian said:
How would thieves tool's help with this?

With respect to the pit trap, the top of the pit trap closes and traps the Ranger inside (in this scenario). Now she/he needs to find a way out.

BookBarbarian said:
I'd avoid or set off with a 10 ft pole in all of these cases, but I guess you could use thieves tools to cut a wire or jam a pressure plate, but I could use other stuff too.

I understand these trap scenarios may not come up very often and what tool, if any, is needed depends on the trap. I am trying to, with the help of people such as yourself, determine if there is something that simplifies what skill or tool could be used in general for Rangers other than "do you have thieves' tools?"

Satyrn · Oct 30, 2018

ScuroNotte said:
With respect to the pit trap, the top of the pit trap closes and traps the Ranger inside (in this scenario). Now she/he needs to find a way out.

I understand these trap scenarios may not come up very often and what tool, if any, is needed depends on the trap. I am trying to, with the help of people such as yourself, determine if there is something that simplifies what skill or tool could be used in general for Rangers other than "do you have thieves' tools?"

Would it work for you if you created a new piece of gear called a trapper's kit, and described it as containing the needed tools to disarm certain traps?

jasper · Oct 30, 2018

Just pound the hobbit's face into the trap until one or the other is broken.

5ekyu · Oct 30, 2018

jasper said:
Just pound the hobbit's kendar’s face into the trap until one or the other is broken.

Corrected that for you...

ScuroNotte · Oct 30, 2018

Satyrn said:
Would it work for you if you created a new piece of gear called a trapper's kit, and described it as containing the needed tools to disarm certain traps?

Not bad. I would consider say it disarms any trap that doesn't have a key mechanism. Otherwise it may cause the same argument of what trap falls in what category. Other option was just give them thieves' tools and be done. Though I have to admit I like the discussion this topic brought to the forum. I was not certain what responses I would get.

BookBarbarian · Oct 30, 2018

ScuroNotte said:
With respect to the pit trap, the top of the pit trap closes and traps the Ranger inside (in this scenario). Now she/he needs to find a way out.

So the thieves tool's only helps after the trap is tiriggered Could you have seen it with a Wisdom (Perception) check and learned that it could bejammed so as not to open up to the pit with an Intelligence (Investigation) check?

ScuroNotte said:
I understand these trap scenarios may not come up very often

Traps come up pretty often in my games.

ScuroNotte said:
and what tool, if any, is needed depends on the trap. I am trying to, with the help of people such as yourself, determine if there is something that simplifies what skill or tool could be used in general for Rangers other than "do you have thieves' tools?"

And my point is "do you have thieve's tools?" should largely be irrelevant to the Ranger (or Rogue, or Barbarian for that matter) in the first place unless the trap has an lock on it. "What tool is necessary?" is backwards thinking to me.

Let the Ranger player just describe what he does to find/disarm/or safely trigger the trap and the DM decides if he success, fails, or if there should be an Ability check. The DM will have a much easier time deciding if a Skill or Tool Proficiency will help with the roll after hearing the player's description of what they are trying to do.

I don't think the process gets more streamlined than that, without substituting a simpler system for resolving uncertainty.

Satyrn · Oct 31, 2018

ScuroNotte said:
Not bad. I would consider say it disarms any trap that doesn't have a key mechanism. Otherwise it may cause the same argument of what trap falls in what category. Other option was just give them thieves' tools and be done. Though I have to admit I like the discussion this topic brought to the forum. I was not certain what responses I would get.

I was actually thinking that the trapper's kit would be used for any sort of trap that snared its prey. A bear trap snares the prey's leg, a pit trap snares the whole body, etc.

While thieves tools would be used on the sort of trap that attacks the target. A poison dart trap, buzzsaws in the floor, etc.

I see there's still annoying exceptions I'd have to make to that definition, because I'd want a pressure plate that causes a door to slam shut, tapping the party in the room, to be a thieves tool sorry of thing, but it's snaring the prey in the room.

So, a trapper's kit would have to exclude complex mechanisms, with thieves tools used instead.

ScuroNotte · Nov 1, 2018

BookBarbarian said:
And my point is "do you have thieve's tools?" should largely be irrelevant to the Ranger (or Rogue, or Barbarian for that matter) in the first place unless the trap has an lock on it. "What tool is necessary?" is backwards thinking to me.

Let the Ranger player just describe what he does to find/disarm/or safely trigger the trap and the DM decides if he success, fails, or if there should be an Ability check. The DM will have a much easier time deciding if a Skill or Tool Proficiency will help with the roll after hearing the player's description of what they are trying to do.

I don't think the process gets more streamlined than that, without substituting a simpler system for resolving uncertainty.

Some people say I am backwards

But when the player describes what she/he wants to do, a tool maybe required. I would think that regardless of what the player wants to do, if the proper equipment is lacking, it can't be done or done with penalty.

Satyrn suggested Trappers' Tools. Maybe have the Ranger have that but it lacks the proper instruments for lock picking.

ScuroNotte · Nov 1, 2018

Satyrn said:
I was actually thinking that the trapper's kit would be used for any sort of trap that snared its prey. A bear trap snares the prey's leg, a pit trap snares the whole body, etc.

While thieves tools would be used on the sort of trap that attacks the target. A poison dart trap, buzzsaws in the floor, etc.

I see there's still annoying exceptions I'd have to make to that definition, because I'd want a pressure plate that causes a door to slam shut, tapping the party in the room, to be a thieves tool sorry of thing, but it's snaring the prey in the room.

So, a trapper's kit would have to exclude complex mechanisms, with thieves tools used instead.

As you pointed out, there could be situations that could arise that would make it difficult to determine what path to choose. And there are traps used by woodsmen/women that cause damage.

I am certain there are many people who are capable of determining what tool/skill/whatever can be used for a trap. But there could be some where it would be difficult, as myself. I like the Trapper's Tools concept. I have been using the Survival skill but as other's have mentioned, tools maybe required that skill alone may not be able to overcome. Not everyone is McGuyver. We rotate in who is GM and the main GM uses thieves tools and makes it a tool the ranger gets later in level (homebrew ranger) since Xanathar came out. But unless it's in the background history, I can't see how a Ranger picks locks. I was trying to find an alternative idea that could be used universally.