Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Shasarak said:

You may want to watch that movie again, Luke gets saved from the professional elite pilots by Han.

If it was Rey then she would have just killed them all herself while all the other X-Wings watch, she is that good.

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You may want to watch that movie again. Luke gets saved from Darth Vader by Han. He more than holds his own with the normal pros.

If it was Rey she'd have had something like a home field advantage to use to even the odds in her favour.

Neonchameleon said:

You may want to watch that movie again. Luke gets saved from Darth Vader by Han. He more than holds his own with the normal pros.

If it was Rey she'd have had something like a home field advantage to use to even the odds in her favour.

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If we look at Lukes character arc the first thing that we see is him getting ambushed by Tusken Raiders and saved by Obi-Wan and the last thing we see is him attacking the Death Star with all the other Rebels.

In contrast Reys character arc starts off defeating the elite professional Tie Fighters in a ship that she just stole and then her arc ends in her defeating a Dark Jedi in a Light Saber duel.

So where is her growth in that? She starts off awesome and ends up awesome. You can not get more Mary Sue then that unless she managed to blow up the Super Death Star while at the same time defeating Kylo.

Shasarak said:

If we look at Lukes character arc the first thing that we see is him getting ambushed by Tusken Raiders and saved by Obi-Wan and the last thing we see is him attacking the Death Star with all the other Rebels.

In contrast Reys character arc starts off defeating the elite professional Tie Fighters in a ship that she just stole and then her arc ends in her defeating a Dark Jedi in a Light Saber duel.

So where is her growth in that? She starts off awesome and ends up awesome. You can not get more Mary Sue then that unless she managed to blow up the Super Death Star while at the same time defeating Kylo.

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If we look at Rey's character arc, it comes with her finding and then starting to sell BB-8. Power doesn't make a character arc, choices do. Unlike Luke she doesn't have a motivation "Follow The Plot".

Meanwhile, unlike Luke, she needs a very substantial home ground advantage to deal with the TIE fighters (who unlike in ANH aren't on the new elite ship of the Empire) in a ship she at least flubs on take-off, that can and does take multiple hits, and using tactics from Finn.

I don't think anyone would care that much about Rey being awesome on occasion. She's always awesome I s the issue. Luke spent the first half of the Trilogy always being saved. Sure he had his spots but he wasn't that over the top. Gets beaten by Tuskans , Han saves him, and he gets mauled by. Wompa nauls him Han saves him again.

Jester David said:

[video=youtube;m7Pls-vYWwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Pls-vYWwM[/video]

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Cheers I'll check it out in a bit. Context of posting please

Neonchameleon said:

If we look at Rey's character arc, it comes with her finding and then starting to sell BB-8. Power doesn't make a character arc, choices do. Unlike Luke she doesn't have a motivation "Follow The Plot".

Meanwhile, unlike Luke, she needs a very substantial home ground advantage to deal with the TIE fighters (who unlike in ANH aren't on the new elite ship of the Empire) in a ship she at least flubs on take-off, that can and does take multiple hits, and using tactics from Finn.

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How can she have a "home ground advantage" when she does not fly around her home ground? You know there is a pretty substansial difference between walking and flying right?. Luke had a "home ground advantage" and he still got punked.

It baffles me the amount of mental gymnastics that you have to go through to equate the two characters. You wring your hands about Luke and a bunch of X-Wings defeating professional Tie Fighters and at the same time give Rey a free pass because of "home ground advantage"?

By that logic the Tie Fighters in RotJ should have easily taken out Lando with their "home ground advantage"

Zardnaar said:

I don't think anyone would care that much about Rey being awesome on occasion. She's always awesome I s the issue. Luke spent the first half of the Trilogy always being saved. Sure he had his spots but he wasn't that over the top. Gets beaten by Tuskans , Han saves him, and he gets mauled by. Wompa nauls him Han saves him again.

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But, of course, she's not, yet you will ignore all those instances in which she is because they won't fit your thesis.

billd91 said:

But, of course, she's not, yet you will ignore all those instances in which she is because they won't fit your thesis.

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I pointed out the difference is in the way they were booked. Luke had people bailing him out, Luke had to get trained. It's not just Rey in that either the kid is also using powers untrained. They also made some effort to explain things and the world building.

And Darth Emo basically explains why Kylo is not s compelling villain. Rey can beat Kylo already there's no real reason to pay money to see Rey overcome him if she wins so what. Maybe the have sine sort of screwy finish. They don't even have that much if a connection unlike Vader and Luke or Anakin and Obi Wan. There's not much emotion there and you need that in a good Star Wars film.

Shasarak said:

How can she have a "home ground advantage" when she does not fly around her home ground? You know there is a pretty substansial difference between walking and flying right?. Luke had a "home ground advantage" and he still got punked.

It baffles me the amount of mental gymnastics that you have to go through to equate the two characters. You wring your hands about Luke and a bunch of X-Wings defeating professional Tie Fighters and at the same time give Rey a free pass because of "home ground advantage"?B y that logic the Tie Fighters in RotJ should have easily taken out Lando with their "home ground advantage"

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Luke was in Tuskan Raider territory when when he got punked. And he wasn't trying to use his knowledge of the terrain.

But spelling things out for you, you are aware that Rey didn't walk everywhere? She had her own speeder. You also remember Finn told her to stay low because it messed up their tracking. That meant that Rey was flying the Millennium Falcon as if it was a speeder (in other words a type of vessel she flew every day) over terrain she flew over every day in a way she flew every day that the TIE fighters were ill-equipped to handle.

But that's not when the home ground advantage really kicked in. She led them first to and then through the bowels of the wrecked Star Destroyer that she spent every day looting in order to earn money. She knew where all the cover was and where the surprises were - and because of the fact she not just knew them but had been shown to know them (she didn't just walk round there, she speedered, and even climbed and abseiled onscreen) she had a significant advantage in how well she was able to use the terrain. And even with that advantage the Falcon took a number of hits, including locking out the quad laser and forcing her to push her knowledge of the terrain to the limit (rather than Finn going for the other quad laser, but possibly it wasn't repaired and possibly he would have been flung everywhere). So yes, home ground advantage in ways that were explicitly set up by the film.

[video=youtube;8sarFZJl3h0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0[/video]

And you'll notice that the Falcon took a number of hits - and how much bigger it is than the TIE fighters. Also TIE fighters might or might not have had a home ground advantage over Lando Calrisian; had they done operations in the center of the Death Star? I doubt it.

It baffles me just how much of what actually happened onscreen gets ignored by people in an effort to find criticisms of the new trilogy.

Zardnaar said:

And Darth Emo basically explains why Kylo is not s compelling villain. Rey can beat Kylo already there's no real reason to pay money to see Rey overcome him if she wins so what. Maybe the have sine sort of screwy finish. They don't even have that much if a connection unlike Vader and Luke or Anakin and Obi Wan. There's not much emotion there and you need that in a good Star Wars film.

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Darth Emo is the second most compelling villain in the entire Star Wars trilogy (and far more compelling than e.g. the Trade Federation, General Grievous, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, the more or less content free Boba Fett, or even Jabba the Hutt who was basically a miniboss). In third is Palpatine - and there's no one else in the same league. And being the second most memorable and compelling villain in a series that includes Darth Vader is quite an achievement, especially when you need to acknowledge Vader but can't make a retread. He won't win - but did you really expect the bad guys to win Return of the Jedi? On the other hand through a mix of malice and power he can potentially cause a vast amount of damage. He's going down but it won't be easy. And with the death of caffeine-free diet Palpatine he's off the leash.

And seriously, connection between Luke and Vader? It took them almost two films to get one with an ass-pull; "Luke, I am your father" wasn't in the original plan at all. But then Star Wars as written by George Lucas is a very bad film and one of the few films that editing can literally be said to have saved.

[video=youtube;GFMyMxMYDNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk[/video]

Neonchameleon said:

Luke was in Tuskan Raider territory when when he got punked. And he wasn't trying to use his knowledge of the terrain.

But spelling things out for you, you are aware that Rey didn't walk everywhere? She had her own speeder. You also remember Finn told her to stay low because it messed up their tracking. That meant that Rey was flying the Millennium Falcon as if it was a speeder (in other words a type of vessel she flew every day) over terrain she flew over every day in a way she flew every day that the TIE fighters were ill-equipped to handle.

But that's not when the home ground advantage really kicked in. She led them first to and then through the bowels of the wrecked Star Destroyer that she spent every day looting in order to earn money. She knew where all the cover was and where the surprises were - and because of the fact she not just knew them but had been shown to know them (she didn't just walk round there, she speedered, and even climbed and abseiled onscreen) she had a significant advantage in how well she was able to use the terrain. And even with that advantage the Falcon took a number of hits, including locking out the quad laser and forcing her to push her knowledge of the terrain to the limit (rather than Finn going for the other quad laser, but possibly it wasn't repaired and possibly he would have been flung everywhere). So yes, home ground advantage in ways that were explicitly set up by the film.

[video=youtube;8sarFZJl3h0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0[/video]

And you'll notice that the Falcon took a number of hits - and how much bigger it is than the TIE fighters. Also TIE fighters might or might not have had a home ground advantage over Lando Calrisian; had they done operations in the center of the Death Star? I doubt it.

It baffles me just how much of what actually happened onscreen gets ignored by people in an effort to find criticisms of the new trilogy.



Darth Emo is the second most compelling villain in the entire Star Wars trilogy (and far more compelling than e.g. the Trade Federation, General Grievous, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, the more or less content free Boba Fett, or even Jabba the Hutt who was basically a miniboss). In third is Palpatine - and there's no one else in the same league. And being the second most memorable and compelling villain in a series that includes Darth Vader is quite an achievement, especially when you need to acknowledge Vader but can't make a retread. He won't win - but did you really expect the bad guys to win Return of the Jedi? On the other hand through a mix of malice and power he can potentially cause a vast amount of damage. He's going down but it won't be easy. And with the death of caffeine-free diet Palpatine he's off the leash.

And seriously, connection between Luke and Vader? It took them almost two films to get one with an ass-pull; "Luke, I am your father" wasn't in the original plan at all. But then Star Wars as written by George Lucas is a very bad film and one of the few films that editing can literally be said to have saved.

[video=youtube;GFMyMxMYDNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk[/video]

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Darth Emo better than the Emperor lol. The guy who defeated Yoda and was a bad ass in the clone wars cartoon.

Jabba and Fett were minor villains.