Mechanics of Revived Settings; your thoughts?

Can someone please describe Birthright? What is it that makes it unique and interesting as a setting for a regular game, as opposed to a setting for fantasy warfare? I haven't read it, I don't know anyone who has read it, and I know nothing whatsoever about it. I guess my impression is that it is a rip off of Warhammer.

[MENTION=6906155]Paul Farquhar[/MENTION] #31 In Birthright the Players are either Kings, some from Magic bloodlines (independant of race) which gives them Special minor powers, or a Party consists of a ruler and his staff. Anyway, each ruler has his own land with resources and resource Management, it is compatible to 2nd ed battlesystem with rules for mass combat if you are into such stuff.

Another Thing notable is th planar configuration if i can remember right, there is only a normal material plane and the shadow plane, on the later halflings have got some powers. There are different human races, and a Party will most likely consist of These if i remember correctly.

With Monsters it is the usual ones but some are uniqe like e.g. there is not a medusa Population but "The Medusa " with stronger powers than a Standard Version.

I think These "named" Mobs had bloodline powers also, and if i remember correctly you could inherit their bloodline (or those of other rulers) in a bit of a "Highlander" Fashion.

Coroc said:

@Paul Farquhar #31 In Birthright the Players are either Kings, some from Magic bloodlines (independant of race) which gives them Special minor powers, or a Party consists of a ruler and his staff. Anyway, each ruler has his own land with resources and resource Management, it is compatible to 2nd ed battlesystem with rules for mass combat if you are into such stuff.

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This sounds a bit limiting and more suitable for an specific adventure path (like Pathfinder: Kingmaker) than a general purpose campaign setting. And players are free to choose "noble" background in most settings.

Another Thing notable is th planar configuration if i can remember right, there is only a normal material plane and the shadow plane, on the later halflings have got some powers. There are different human races, and a Party will most likely consist of These if i remember correctly.

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A different take on halfings, fair enough. What about the other races? How are they non-generic? Are we talking a lot of different human subraces?

With Monsters it is the usual ones but some are uniqe like e.g. there is not a medusa Population but "The Medusa " with stronger powers than a Standard Version.

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Stronger monsters can come in a monster book (e.g. MTOF) why do they need a setting?

I think These "named" Mobs had bloodline powers also, and if i remember correctly you could inherit their bloodline (or those of other rulers) in a bit of a "Highlander" Fashion.

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Expand on Bloodline powers. Do they have a significant effect on gameplay (assuming we aren't commanding an army)?

Since I'm dming Dark Sun:
An update on races: and I won't accept things like "use goliaths for half giants". That's non sense. I don't want them to force any race. DS is about a dying world with extinted races, not new ones like tieflings on 4e.
Rules for weapons: inferior materials
Rules for armors: 4e edition just says that you change the name and suddenly you can use a "plate" armor in the middle of the desert...
Psionics that aren't just wizards with mana (psi).
Classes to emulate the original set and again don't force new classes like the sorcerer. I want a gladiator, and athasian bard to replace the one in the phb, templars, elemental clerics and defilers and preservers.
Expand rules for environmental hazards.
A new monster manual. I can't just use monster on the first monster manual. I need monster specially designed for dark sun.
And many others not so important like prices in different cities, dehydration an so on.

I'm totally ok with new alien stuffs,I can ban them, but I don't want to redesign things because they say "use dragonborn as drays" just to make dragonborn fit.

Mouseferatu said:

Oh, God, don't do that. I would abuse that power something fierce.

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Your statement is still one of the best-spoken rebukes I've seen recently.

I can't remember how Dark Sun originally dealt with bards, but as full arcane casters in 5e they would need to be preservers or defilers.

Ezequielramone said:

Since I'm dming Dark Sun:

defilers and preservers.

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A) Thank you for chiming in. It helps to hear from somebody who is 'doing DS in real life' (as opposed to me who 'might do DS again someday').

B) IIRC, defiling magic is the normal state of affairs. Preserving magic is an act of will. So you might need a feat or a class feature added to indicate that you don't kill everything around you.

One thing I can see is rules for defiling extra when you up-cast a spell. The 4e Dark Sun Campaign Sourcebook mentioned that Hamanu destroyed a rival city with one spell (and slew his own army to empower it), which sounded a lot like Meteor Swarm with metamagic applied and a few hundred Sorcery Points to work with.

There should also be a class feature on Sorcerer where, at high levels, you can create a 'positive feedback loop' between your defiling and the Sorcerer Points you are gaining - to expand the defile radius (and cover more victims) - before the main spell has to be cast. Of course, if you ever display this ability and leave witnesses, the Sorcerer-Kings send agents and assassins after you before you can become a rival to them.

[MENTION=6762048]Ezequielramone[/MENTION] #34 thank you for your great post, i do agree on your opinion on DS 100%.

My thoughts on this if i wanted to convert this to 5e so far are These:

Human: Standard nonvariant
Mul: Halforc reskinned Advantage on Exhaustion.
Halfling: Stout reskinned
Halfelf: Standard but no charm res, has to get soemthing in return
Elf: Woodelf but reskinned
Dwarf: The dwarf Sub that gets +Con and +wis reskinned (Focus)

Half giant: TBD dunno any good solution without adding Attribute boon > 20 combined with a malus for balance
Thrikreen TBD eventually partially dragonborn reskinned (Poison bite instead of breath weapon), reskin natural weapon multiattack as 1 attack

Templar: Warlock (Tome) definitely Warlock. The Tome as a Focus might be something else maybe a ring or a seal. Chain and Blade pact are not so fititing

Elemental clerics: eventually shaped Domains eventually FS (Sorcerer but Wis based ) with restricted spell list eventually Warlock with elemental prince as Patron.

Defiler: Need a mechanic for this

Inferior Weapon: take Standard dice and breakable but steel weapons/Magic weapons from inferior material 1 die up (eg 1d8 instead of 1d6 for a sword)

Inferior armor: Less AC than metal armor, for even tougher and faster combat.

Psionics: UA Approach is not so bad, but every PC Needs a wild Talent as a free feat eventually

Gladiator : Battlemaster

Fighter Champion

No Monk or Barbarian Standard bard eldritch knight

Bard = Thief asassin

Druid only land circle, shapechanging has to be rethought.

Starting Level 3 with max hp (DS Needs that)


Hope you like my ideas

[MENTION=6906155]Paul Farquhar[/MENTION] #34:

On your questions 1. It is different, the PCs are really kings and can draw on the resources of their Domains (countries). There were many official splats, each detailing a Domain which would be Player Background. It is not limiting at all, the PC can go on a dungeon crawl with a Party or a war campaign with his whole army. There were Domain spells i cannot remember if These were connected t othe bloodlines i would have to read it up, they basically were useful in mass combat, e.g. maipulate the Terrain difficulty.

2. There were half a dozen human subraces each with their own Attribute boons and malus and some other characteristic. If i remember correctly rulers were all humans, you could be dwarf or elf as a minor pc eventually, i might be incorrect here.

3. It is unique in a way that here is e.g. 1 Dragon, 1 Medusa, 1 Werewolf or whatever in the setting (Imade the types up atm) but thats it. These Unique Mobs are like rulers with their own armies, or Major bosses. They are not generic but with Goals personalities etc. And they are no easy match and all of them are high Level.

4. So Long since i read this, but i beleive bloodlines could have different strength, it could be a minor Thing like cure wounds 1/day, some 2nd Level spell at will and / or things like Domain Magic, e.g. battlefield Magic or telport inside of ones realm.

Ezequielramone said:

Since I'm dming Dark Sun:
An update on races: and I won't accept things like "use goliaths for half giants". That's non sense. I don't want them to force any race. DS is about a dying world with extinted races, not new ones like tieflings on 4e.
Rules for weapons: inferior materials
Rules for armors: 4e edition just says that you change the name and suddenly you can use a "plate" armor in the middle of the desert...
Psionics that aren't just wizards with mana (psi).
Classes to emulate the original set and again don't force new classes like the sorcerer. I want a gladiator, and athasian bard to replace the one in the phb, templars, elemental clerics and defilers and preservers.
Expand rules for environmental hazards.
A new monster manual. I can't just use monster on the first monster manual. I need monster specially designed for dark sun.
And many others not so important like prices in different cities, dehydration an so on.

I'm totally ok with new alien stuffs,I can ban them, but I don't want to redesign things because they say "use dragonborn as drays" just to make dragonborn fit.

Click to expand...

I think you got the right ideas. I hope, if setting material is released one day, its more than a book of refluff. I can reluff, you can refluff, everybody can do it for free. The thing is, settings are more than just refluff of the PHB. Some kitchen sink setting can be based on the PHB and works just fine with just a little added flavor. Some dont work that way. If I'm to ban half the PHB and refluff the other half while being forced to discuss the whys of those changes with players new to the setting, its not worth it.

I also dont think the need to balance things out and restrict class bloat is a good excuse. Sure, if you want to make the players options of Darksun 100% compatible with the rest of the product line, it may be problematic. But, if they make a book of options compatible only at the base rules level, it wont be a problem. Sure the system still play mostly the same, but options cant be mined from multiple source because they wont fit. Like in nobody tries to bring PHB races or classes in my Middle-Earth game because they use the Middle-Earth PHB where all options fitting the setting is assembled. The games still plays the same, but it has new rules that are reflected in the class abilities, which makes them a poor fit for more generic setting. I could see something like this:

Players options:
-New Backgrounds for each city and some for the races of the waste (having a PHB outlander that can gather food easily breaks the theme)
Races of Athas
- Athasian humans (sub-race city dwellers and people of the waste)
- Elfs
- Halfing
- Dwarves (regular and Mul)
- Kreen
- Half-Giant
New Classes
Warrior (fighter)
- Gladiator
- Weapon Master
- Battlemind (1/3 psi caster)

Barbarian
- Slayer (breaks weapon and people)
- Dervish (Dual-wield mobile barb)
- Desert totem (refluffed from the PHB)

Channeler (Warlock-like, people who draws power from other entities)
- Pact of the Sorcerer Kings (City specific invocations)
- Pact of Fire and Smoke (Small modifications to the Fiend warlock could do)
- Pact of Rain (water themed warlock with healing powers)
- Pact of Sand and Dust (Wind and stone based warlock)

Rogue
-Minstrel (Mix Whisper bard and assassin 1/3 caster, you're good)
-Brute (str-based rogue)
-Duelist (arena rogue)
-Raider (desert survival rogue)

Arcanist
- Wizard per PHB, no arcane recovery
- Defilers and Preservers: new rules. Metamagic to all caster, but fueled by Defiling. Risk of Taint (may kill character after a time).

Mystic
- Wilder
- Scion (nobleborn psion)
- Ardent

New rules
- Item breaking
- New travel and survival rules
- New feats: Race feats, wild talents, combat maneuvers
- Spells of the Dying World: adapted spell lists with new spells that interact with some new rules.

That's it for the player part. The rest of the book could be for Dm:
- Brief history
- How to challenge survival, exemple of hazard and travel encounters.
- Bestiary
- Plug-in powers to add to already existing monster to get the Dark sun feel.

That would make for a nice book. Though I understand their fear of splitting the market.