D&D 5E homebrew Cleric Changes discussion

Lanliss

Explorer
Sorry, I remember reading these in the email but then I forgot to respond when I got home.

I think these are quite interesting, I'm away from my PHB at the moment but I assume that the invocations affecting specific spells are based on the domain spells.

I'm not 100% sure about burning brilliance, it might be too powerful but then there are other spells which do the same so maybe not. At the very least I would consider a change in wording to allow the light priest to choose to make their light spells damaging so that they don't summon up a light source and burn their allies.

Trained in War fits the war domain perfectly. Are clerics going to have access to something like the warlock's 3rd level pact boons? If not, then perhaps another war invocation could be the one which allows them to gain Extra Attack.

The aura of life invocation might remove the need to spend hit dice during short rests since everyone can huddle around the life cleric. It definitely fits the domain though.

Yes, the spell related ones are tied to Domain spells, though I might also add one or two like the Arcana Divine I posted above, which give new spells as well.

I was mostly throwing around ideas. I thought of giving the Cleric something like the pact boons, as I mentioned in the "Extra layer of customization" bullet in my first post, but have decided that their free choice of the spell list does plenty for them, and I don't want them too similar to Warlock. That said, an invocation giving extra attack would not be out of the bounds at all.

I was a bit iffy about burning Brilliance anyway, I just wanted something that would reflect each domain, and immediately read like it was from that domain.

I am not too worried about removing the need for hit dice on short rests, people will still need to long rest eventually to regain spells. I was mostly worried about how it might play in combat, but figure that everyone clustering around the cleric for 3 hp per round will make a good target for AoE, so people will not be too encouraged to pile together. You might get a Pally/Cleric/Tank(Fighter or Barb) team that sticks together, but that is just tactics.

Most importantly, Interesting was what I was aiming for. Glad I hit that mark. Now I just need enough that these don't become the default picks for players, and they can still have characters that are interesting in a different way.
 

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cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Generally speaking, I probably wouldn't be too concerned about out of combat healing and the aura either. In combat, it's a little bit of bonus healing which is likely to maybe affect one or two other allies if the cleric is up front with the fighter or hanging back with the wizard.

I thought the arcana domain invocation was pretty good. I think it will be pretty high in the list of choices since it allows them to open up their characters spellcasting options which is exactly what I would want for an arcana cleric.

I also really like the war domains weapon summon, it may eventually be replaced by a magical weapon down the road but until then, awesome. There could even be an invocation chain that improves it or it could be turned into a basic cleric invocation since most gods have a weapon of choice. Perhaps the damage it deals is also dependent on the domain (Light = fire, Tempest = Lightning, War = slashing?)
 

Lanliss

Explorer
Generally speaking, I probably wouldn't be too concerned about out of combat healing and the aura either. In combat, it's a little bit of bonus healing which is likely to maybe affect one or two other allies if the cleric is up front with the fighter or hanging back with the wizard.

I thought the arcana domain invocation was pretty good. I think it will be pretty high in the list of choices since it allows them to open up their characters spellcasting options which is exactly what I would want for an arcana cleric.

I also really like the war domains weapon summon, it may eventually be replaced by a magical weapon down the road but until then, awesome. There could even be an invocation chain that improves it or it could be turned into a basic cleric invocation since most gods have a weapon of choice. Perhaps the damage it deals is also dependent on the domain (Light = fire, Tempest = Lightning, War = slashing?)

Good stuff. I thought of adding all that kind of stuff, but it is really a DM and Player sort of discussion. Some people might follow a War God of Winter, some might follow Thor, so those would likely have different damage types associated with them. I can just add an addendum to talk with your DM about customizing the weapon/damage to fit your chosen god, while the Default is whatever damage type your weapon normally deals.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
As far as Greater Command is concerned... it looks from how I'm reading it that you are essentially making the spell successful regardless of any saving throw, correct? If this first Command gets saved against, then a second one happens instead. I can understand the idea behind it, but wonder if it's just making things more cumbersome than necessary? Since you're essentially only asking for your player to come up with a list of synonyms for Commands they ordinarily make (since that way they gets the victim performing the same result whether they save or not)... it might just be easier to say that the victim of the Command spell doesn't get a saving throw instead?

That could work, but that in itself seems to me a little less interesting for a Knowledge domain cleric than potentially some other thing. If it was me (knowing this Gift was potentially going to be playtested at the table to find out its viability) I might have a little more fun with the spell and maybe give the Gift the ability to use two words for the Command, rather than just one. Saves and such stay the same, it just opens the potential list of Commands a little wider for the Knowledge cleric (which is the domain that for me makes the most sense.)

But whatever way you go... I do think altering the Command spell for a Knowledge cleric is a smart choice. It's been one of the cleric's go-to spells for decades, and as it is vocabularly-based... the Knowledge cleric is the one who would be most likely to know how to play with it.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=6801219]Lanliss[/MENTION] For "Gifts" (Invocations), I recommend checking out the Green Ronin Medieval Player's Guide; there is a holy man (IIRC) class in that book with a series of Charisms that you could adapt as "Gifts" if you like the feel of a medieval saint.

If you wish to add another layer of customization, like a warlock's Pact, I would recommend looking at "Virtues", which are a critical component of any faith. You could come up with your own list, use alignment, incorporate Ideals, or something along those lines.
 

Lanliss

Explorer
As far as Greater Command is concerned... it looks from how I'm reading it that you are essentially making the spell successful regardless of any saving throw, correct? If this first Command gets saved against, then a second one happens instead. I can understand the idea behind it, but wonder if it's just making things more cumbersome than necessary? Since you're essentially only asking for your player to come up with a list of synonyms for Commands they ordinarily make (since that way they gets the victim performing the same result whether they save or not)... it might just be easier to say that the victim of the Command spell doesn't get a saving throw instead?

That could work, but that in itself seems to me a little less interesting for a Knowledge domain cleric than potentially some other thing. If it was me (knowing this Gift was potentially going to be playtested at the table to find out its viability) I might have a little more fun with the spell and maybe give the Gift the ability to use two words for the Command, rather than just one. Saves and such stay the same, it just opens the potential list of Commands a little wider for the Knowledge cleric (which is the domain that for me makes the most sense.)

But whatever way you go... I do think altering the Command spell for a Knowledge cleric is a smart choice. It's been one of the cleric's go-to spells for decades, and as it is vocabularly-based... the Knowledge cleric is the one who would be most likely to know how to play with it.

The intent was that, once the enemy fails their saving throw, you can issue two commands, such as "Drop" and "Grovel". They drop their weapon immediately, assuming they have their reaction, and grovel on their turn. If they have no reaction, they do both on their turn.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
The intent was that, once the enemy fails their saving throw, you can issue two commands, such as "Drop" and "Grovel". They drop their weapon immediately, assuming they have their reaction, and grovel on their turn. If they have no reaction, they do both on their turn.

Ah, okay! I misunderstood how you explained it. Your intent seems very good for how its meant to be and I imagine should be fine.
 

Lanliss

Explorer
LevelProficiency BonusFeaturesCantrips knownSpell slotsSlot levelGifts Known
1st+2Spellcasting, Divine Domain211st-
2nd+2Channel Divinity(1/rest), Divine Domain Feature221st2
3rd+2----222nd2
4th+2ASI322nd2
5th+3Destroy Undead (CR 1/2)323rd3
6th+3Channel Divinity (2/rest), Divine Domain Feature323rd3
7th+3----324th4
8th+3ASI, Destroy Undead (CR 1), Divine Domain Feature324th4
9th+4----325th5
10th+4Divine Intervention425th5
11th+4Destroy Undead (CR 2), Mystic Arcanum (6th level)
435th5
12th+4ASI
435th6
13th+5Mystic Arcanum (7th level)
435th6
14th+5Destroy Undead (CR 3)
435th6
15th+5Mystic Arcanum (8th level)
435th7
16th+5ASI
435th7
17th+6Destroy Undead (CR 4), Divine Domain Feature, Mystic Arcanum (9th level)
4
45th7
18th+6Channel Divinity (3/rest)
445th8
19th+6ASI445th8
20th+6Divine Intervention Improvement445th8

Alright, porting the Cleric abilities straight over to the Warlock table actually works really well. There are almost no dead levels, so I could run this cleric right now as it is.

EDIT: Added the Mystic arcanum to the table. Same rules apply as far as uses and when they recharge, but as a Cleric spell they can be changed after a long rest.
 
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cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Have you considered the spell levels of 6-9? Do they gain a Divine Blessing (Mystic Arcanum) in the same manner as a warlock?
 

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