The Pride Of Blue Rose

After a successful Kickstarter project, Green Ronin Publishing have put out a second edition of their Blue Rose role-playing game. Inspired by the works of romantic fantasy from authors such as Mercedes Lackey, Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane, Blue Rose was originally powered by a variant of the D20 rules that Green Ronin called True20, and this new game uses the company's house system called the Adventure Game Engine, or AGE. The rules themselves are descended from the company's licensed role-playing game based upon the franchise of the Dragon Age computer games.


After a successful Kickstarter project, Green Ronin Publishing have put out a second edition of their Blue Rose role-playing game. Inspired by the works of romantic fantasy from authors such as Mercedes Lackey, Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane, Blue Rose was originally powered by a variant of the D20 rules that Green Ronin called True20, and this new game uses the company's house system called the Adventure Game Engine, or AGE. The rules themselves are descended from the company's licensed role-playing game based upon the franchise of the Dragon Age computer games.

The design team of Steve Kenson and Jack Norris manage to bring the inspirations of the original Blue Rose game into the newer AGE system. Since Kenson worked on developing the True20 system that powered the first edition of the game, this makes sense. Blue Rose is a self-contained book that doesn't require any other AGE system book for play. It isn't just a matter of pushing the existing world of Aldea into the AGE rules, however. The rules of Blue Rose are set apart from games like Fantasy AGE by the incorporation of some first edition rules.

Conviction is a mechanic that was an important part of the first edition of Blue Rose. It is a narrative control tool, not unlike Fate Points in Fate Core, or a number of other role-playing games. Spending conviction can do things from helping your character in combats, to helping them better survive the effects of those combat situations. Fate point mechanics are good ways to create a cinematic, swashbuckling tone for a game because they can help to mitigate the impact that poor dice rolling can have on such a game. Few things can as quickly ruin a campaign as the randomness of dice rolling undercutting the fact that characters are supposed to be doing flashy, larger than life things and failing because the player rolled a one.

The 3d6 dice rolling for the task resolution systems of AGE does also help to get rid of some of the whiff factor of the original rules, which used the standard D20 mechanic of rolling a single d20 die for task resolution. A part of the reason why rules like the original Conviction rules sprang up around D20 variants was because of the fact that d20-based resolution can often be binary in its results: you succeed or you fail at a task. More often the result is failure, and slows down play while a task is attempted over and over, looking for the needed success. A 3d6 resolution mechanic can also add granularity to resolution attempts, making it possible to add degrees of success that can make results more spectacular, or more horrible, than a simple binary "You Succeed!" or "You Fail!"

The AGE stunt mechanic can also add more long term verisimilitude to task resolution. Rolling doubles on two of the three dice can earn your character stunt points which can be spent later one to add flourishes to future tasks on behalf of your character. There are a number of ways to utilize stunt points, from magic to interactions to other character abilities.

Characters are class-based, and informed by the three generic classes that were used in the original game (which in turn were adapted from material published in the Unearthed Arcana book published by Wizards of the Coast for the Dungeons & Dragons 3.x rules), and updated to the current rules. The Fantasy AGE rules do use a similar set up for the game's classes, but the design of the classes in Blue Rose is to my eye a bit more generic than those rules. This isn't a bad thing, because there are a number of ways to differentiate one character from another in these rules. Where the classes give the basic niche of your character (magic for Adepts, fighting for Warriors and skills and knowledge for Experts), the customization for characters comes with focuses, talents and specializations. These are all things from the AGE rules. Focuses are focused, specialized areas within the abilities of your characters that make them better at specific sorts of tasks. Talents are special abilities available to characters. Specializations work in a way similar to how prestige classes worked under the D20 system, they represent a specialized capability or profession within the more general classes, they also unlock talents that would not otherwise be available to a character. Where you have the generic Warrior that represents the idea of the fighter-type of characters, you can show how your Warrior is different from another in your group by picking things like the Berserker or the Champion specialization for your character. These specializations are how you build upon the wider, and more generic, niche of your character's class, and customize that niche into something more unique for your character.

If you've played a D20 game, the talents will be mechanically familiar to you because they work not unlike that system's feats. They give characters special abilities and special rules exceptions that let them do extraordinary tasks within a game.

There are also human cultures and non-human races that are available to characters. The non-human races are flavorful, and offer a number of meaningful role-playing opportunities to players. They are unique to the setting of Blue Rose, and while they are obviously inspired by fantasy concepts like elves and orcs, they manage to bring new ideas and interpretations of these archetypes to the gaming table. Vata, for example, clearly aren't elves (despite filling a similar niche within the world), but at the same time they aren't the "Nope. These totally aren't elves." approach that you get in a lot of games. They are original concepts that do not derive their concepts from running down the archetypes. This is a welcome change in RPG world building.

All of these character options work to add uniqueness to characters without adding a lot of complexity to them. Despite the AGE rules drawing inspiration from the D20 system, and some ideas from earlier editions of D&D as well, they do so in a much more streamlined manner than the D20 rules manage. There are as many special cases for GMs to remember in the AGE rules, and there aren't as many character options for players to wade through either.

Another mechanic that has come over from the first edition of Blue Rose would be the Corruption rules. Corruption is something that fits into the theme of the romantic fantasy that the game emulates. In a way it is a mechanical implementation of the oft-quoted Bob Dylan song lyric: "to live outside the law, you must be honest." Taken from his song Absolutely Sweet Marie the idea is something that you often see in heroic fiction, and comic books. The idea of Corruption is that the darkness of the world, which is literal in a world where magic and supernatural creatures are real, can taint even those who are the most good, tempting them to follow a darker, and sometimes easier, path. These are conflicts that you see in a lot of romantic fantasy, and in settings like that of the Star Wars universe, with its internal and external conflicts between the Jedi and the Sith. Embracing this Corruption is easier for characters in Blue Rose sometimes, but "easy" isn't always the best path for heroes.

The Corruption mechanic ties into Callings, which are another character option. Callings aren't as simple as talents or specializations, because they address how a character fits into the world of the game, or into the overall story of the campaign that a group is playing through. Following through with the ideals of a Calling is how a character earns Conviction. Callings will tell you how your character moves towards their long and short term goals. Like with Corruption, Callings are an idea carried over from the first edition of Blue Rose and help to show how your character is a part of the game's world.

The setting of Blue Rose, the world of Aldea, is where the game really sings. Rather than relying on the same tropes that inform just about every other fantasy game on the market, or call back to the same set of inspirations (whether drawing upon Tolkien or Howard or Moorcock), the game instead looks to the tropes that are important to romantic fantasy. Obviously, romance is one of these things, but gender and sexuality can also play important parts of romantic fantasy. Romantic fantasy not only elevates the women who are characters out of the secondary roles that they often fill in more traditional style of fantasy, but they make them the protagonists of the stories as well. Yes, Jirel of Joiry exists. Yes, Red Sonja exists. Yes, there are women-lead stories in high fantasy and swords and sorcery fiction. No one is saying that these characters, these stories, do not exist. The problem is that for those genres they are still the exception rather than the rule. There are still more stories and movies with male protagonists than female ones in these genres. That is one of the strengths of romantic fantasy, and the draw of it for a lot of people who do not identify as traditionally male in any number of ways.

It isn't coincidence that this review is "coming out" after the weekend that many celebrate Pride around the world, and in the same week as the anniversary of the Stonewall Riots that triggered what we would eventually come to know as Pride. Blue Rose normalizes homosexual relationships in the same way that heterosexual relationships are normalized in other fantasy settings. In worlds where shape shifting, magical fleshshaping and magical artifacts that can impact gender or presentation are so common, it shouldn't be such a strange idea that people would be free to adopt the gender, or genders, with which they identify themselves, even if they are not born that way. On the world of Aldea, like in many real world religions, not all deities conform to the binary standards of gender, and because of that the people who worship those gods should not be required to do this either. Obviously some cultures are more accepting of this than others, but overall the world is one that has much, much more of what is called an egalitarian nature than what you see in a lot of fantasy worlds. The idea that the existence of magic or werewolves in a game is okay, but somehow men marrying one another, or individuals choosing the gender (or genders) with which they identify, "break fantasy" is a strange one for me.

There are a number of lands that fill the world of Aldea. The lands of Aldis are assumed to be where player characters are from, while the antagonists are typically those people from the Theocracy of Jarzon or Kern, which was once ruled with a brutal hand by a Lich King. All three of these countries are outlined, but Aldis is given the lion share of description. A couple of other countries are outlined as well, and the nomadic culture of Roamers is talked about as well. The world of Aldea is well described, and everything that you might need to explore the world is contained in the Blue Rose book.

The designers did a great job of customizing the AGE rules to fit the Blue Rose game, and making sure that the new game lives up to the legacy of the first edition. I was a fan of the first edition of Blue Rose, not just because of the well-designed rules, but also because of the unique setting. I don't think that fantasy role-playing games push at the boundaries of the genre in the same way that the fiction does. We need more boundary pushing in RPGs across the board, if we ever want to see the fanbase expand and grow in new directions. Games like Blue Rose are an integral part of this boundary pushing and growth, and we need more well-made games like this.
 

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They present a hard line for some people, though, since they take you out of the role of character and put you into the role of author.

There are ways to handle that sort of thing where it keeps you in character, but the design needs to take that into consideration. Like I said, I'll have to read the book to see where this one falls.

Personally, I would tell such a person that they've been fed a line of nonsense by someone who either 1) doesn't understand the system or terminology in question or 2) has some sort of an axe to grind that is based upon their not understanding the system or terminology. Getting a bonus to a die roll, or a healing surge of some sort, has nothing to do with being the role of an author. Part of why I was brought on at EN World, a couple of years ago now, was to talk about different ways of gaming, and different ways that systems can impact that gaming so as to help clear up misconceptions that a lot of gamers have that are due to people either purposefully, or inadvertently, spreading disinformation about how different types of games work.

Mongoose Publishing, for example, was fond of fate point mechanics. Systems very similar to the one used by True20 (which in turn informed the similar system in the new Blue Rose) were used by them in their Conan and Runequest games (probably others as well, but those are the ones that I have the most experience with). Green Ronin's Mutants & Masterminds also uses a very similar system. Troll Lord Games' Amazing Adventures also uses a similar system, inspired by the one in the Conan game. These are all very "traditional" (I hate using that term in regards to gaming) that use fate point mechanics to make their games much more cinematic, and given enough time I could probably find more examples of it.
 

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Probably the earliest version of a fate point mechanic (that I can think of off the top of my head) goes all the way back to the 80s and TSR's original Marvel Super-Heroes game. Karma was a fate point mechanic, and it even was a carrot/stick reward system for making people have their characters act in a way that was in line with comic book super-heroes.
 

Getting a bonus to a die roll, or a healing surge of some sort, has nothing to do with being the role of an author.
No, but spending a Fate point often does. It's a decision made as an author, rather than as the character. The character isn't the one who decides when there's a convenient rock to hide behind, or that the enemy is aware of their fearsome reputation.

Like I said, there are ways you can do this without crossing that line, but not all games pass the test. Some games cross the line because they aren't aware of it, and some games cross the line because they just don't care.
 

No, but spending a Fate point often does. It's a decision made as an author, rather than as the character. The character isn't the one who decides when there's a convenient rock to hide behind, or that the enemy is aware of their fearsome reputation.

Like I said, there are ways you can do this without crossing that line, but not all games pass the test. Some games cross the line because they aren't aware of it, and some games cross the line because they just don't care.

It is a line that is ultimately unimportant, however, except to a handful of grognards and people who argue about games online. I say this as someone who started playing D&D in 1979, and who has been a professional (paid) critic of gaming for a number of years now. ;)
 

It is a line that is ultimately unimportant, however, except to a handful of grognards and people who argue about games online. I say this as someone who started playing D&D in 1979, and who has been a professional (paid) critic of gaming for a number of years now. ;)
Dude, if you're going to call yourself a professional, then you're doing a poor job of representing the industry. Name-calling anyone who disagrees with you is not the way to grow the hobby.

For as long as people care about role-playing (rather than story-telling), some people will be put off by dissociative mechanics. That's a simple fact. You can't control what other people like or don't like. The only difference between those of us arguing the point online, and those who quit the hobby because they just aren't having fun, is that we have the technical vocabulary with which to name our point of contention and the inclination to affect positive change on the hobby rather than giving up on it entirely.
 
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Desh-Rae-Halra

Explorer
Am I reading this disagreement correctly:
Saelorn is advocating for the GM to be ultimately responsible for all the story and describing and determining every possibility (hence Fate points take away from the GMs responsibility by forcing the player to think beyond just what their character would do in X scenario), and Christopher Helton is saying the players should share in creating the narrative as he doesn't find players influencing the plot offensive?
 

For me, I play for immersion in character, and I want every choice I made to effect the world to be one made in character. It's actually a pretty big thing for me - but I know I'm on the extreme end. Most game mechanics can be made to connect to character action (I roll the die, the character is attempting to pick a lock: Rolling the die=Character lockpicking - one to one correlation between character and player). Things like Fate Point mechanics rob me of that immersion, If I spend a fate point to change a plot point or adjust the situation, the character is not doing anything that is that action, I the player am.

Don't know if that is what Saelorn is speaking to, but it is how I view it.
 

Am I reading this disagreement correctly:
Saelorn is advocating for the GM to be ultimately responsible for all the story and describing and determining every possibility (hence Fate points take away from the GMs responsibility by forcing the player to think beyond just what their character would do in X scenario), and Christopher Helton is saying the players should share in creating the narrative as he doesn't find players influencing the plot offensive?
That's roughly the line I'm talking about. In a traditional RPG (like D&D), the GM creates the world and describes everything going on, and each player only has to worry about role-playing their own character. In collaborative story-telling games (like FATE), the players all contribute toward building the world and providing details as they go along, in addition to everyone playing their own characters.

Like, I get it. Some people care more about telling a cool story, and fate points (or any sort of player-narrative mechanic) lets them do that. Personally, I just want to pretend to be a rad hero for a couple of hours per week, and nothing drags me out of that mind-set any worse than being asked to also invent the environment that my character is supposed to be interacting with. It is very literally the difference between playing as my character, and telling a story about my character, where the latter holds zero appeal for me.

And I still don't know where Blue Rose fits into this, whether I could play it as a traditional RPG, or whether the Conviction mechanic steers it irrevocably toward player-narrative control.
 

pemerton

Legend
Without "fate points", or some similar mechanic, PCs can't try harder. But in real life, people can and do try harder (or less hard) depending on what is at stake. A game system that doesn't allow for trying harder isn't very true to human experience.

Effort or commitment isn't the only thing that fate points can represent, of course. But at least in my experience it's probably the most salient.
 

Effort or commitment isn't the only thing that fate points can represent, of course. But at least in my experience it's probably the most salient.
And yet, it's not nearly the most controversial thing that they can represent, either. If you wanted to cut a middle ground, without intentionally excluding players on either side, you could easily design a mechanic that represents effort which doesn't also grant narrative control. It's usually called something like Willpower.

Given how easy it is to design an inoffensive mechanic, once you're aware of the issue, failing to do so is a strong signal that the designer is either clueless about the controversy (which may have been the case in some early games) or actively doesn't care about the audience that might be put off by it (which is more likely the case in recent games).

I was really looking forward to this game. Steve Kenson was one of my favorite authors, and I was excited about the possibility of role-playing in this type of setting. If it had been marketed from the start as a system for telling these types of stories, rather than as this type of setting in which to play, then I wouldn't have gotten my hopes up.
 

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