Can you Power Attack with a melee touch attack?

RigaMortus2 · Jun 24, 2006

Say from a spell like Inflict X Wounds. I would assume not, but I can't seem to find any rules that disallow it. It is a melee attack after all.

I might as well post my follow-up question now, although it may not be relevant given the answer to the above question... Can you Cleave if you drop an opponent by using a melee touch attack to do so?

Thanee · Jun 25, 2006

...subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls...

Sure, you can take the penalty with an Inflict spell, but you won't get the benefit.

If you make a touch attack and deal melee damage with that (i.e. Wraithstrike) it works just fine, though.

As for Cleave... when you use a touch spell, the spell is (usually) gone after one hit, so the Cleave attack (which has to be with the same weapon) is useless then. But if it's a weapon you keep afterwards, then it should work.

Bye
Thanee

RigaMortus2 · Jun 25, 2006

Thanee said:
Sure, you can take the penalty with an Inflict spell, but you won't get the benefit.

If you make a touch attack and deal melee damage with that (i.e. Wraithstrike) it works just fine, though.

As for Cleave... when you use a touch spell, the spell is (usually) gone after one hit, so the Cleave attack (which has to be with the same weapon) is useless then. But if it's a weapon you keep afterwards, then it should work.

Bye
Thanee

So why would Wraithstrike work, but not a simple Inflict Wounds?

And I think there is at least 1 first level spell that keeps the charge after you use it. I want to say either Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp...

Thanee · Jun 25, 2006

Because with the spell you do not deal melee damage. With Wraithstrike you still attack with your melee weapon.

Yeah, Chill Touch would work, IMHO. Most other touch spells would not.

Bye
Thanee

Kieperr · Jun 25, 2006

RigaMortus2 said:
Say from a spell like Inflict X Wounds. I would assume not, but I can't seem to find any rules that disallow it. It is a melee attack after all.

It may be a melee attack to touch the opponent but you are not doing melee damage. You are discharging a spell thus you are doing damage with a spell. Power Attack is not applied to damage from spells. If it did then you could also add your strength modifier to damage from touch spells.

RigaMortus2 said:
I might as well post my follow-up question now, although it may not be relevant given the answer to the above question... Can you Cleave if you drop an opponent by using a melee touch attack to do so?

For Cleave you have to make the extra attack with the same weapon that you made the first attack with. A spell is not a weapon so it does not qualify for Cleave.

RigaMortus2 · Jun 25, 2006

Kieperr said:
It may be a melee attack to touch the opponent but you are not doing melee damage. You are discharging a spell thus you are doing damage with a spell. Power Attack is not applied to damage from spells. If it did then you could also add your strength modifier to damage from touch spells.

So you can't Power Attack with a Druid's Flameblade spell then?

Kieperr said:
For Cleave you have to make the extra attack with the same weapon that you made the first attack with. A spell is not a weapon so it does not qualify for Cleave.

Complete Arcane spells to think they are. If a spell wasn't a weapon, you wouldn't be able to crit with them. Why is criting ok, but power attack is not? I don't see too much difference between the two...

Jubilee · Jun 25, 2006

As I understand it, you cannot power attack with a light weapon - and unarmed attacks are considered light weapons - at least for purposes of attacking when grappled. That's how I'd rule, if I were the GM.

I would rule that since the flameblade does not get a bonus to hit for your strength (being immaterial), it would not get bonuses to hit with power attack. The concept of power attack, to me, is sacrificing accuracy for a harder swing, and if your strength cannot affect the damage of a weapon, neither can a power attack.

/ali

Kieperr · Jun 25, 2006

Flame Blade does fire damage, not melee damage so Power Attack wouldn't apply.

Those spells that allow a critical hit or sneak attack damage are weapon like spells. These spells require an attack roll with the spell and do damage to the opponent on a successful hit, such as Scorching Ray. Such spells (usually rays) require you to hit your opponent with the spell, as per the spell's description, for it to have an effect. Basically, if the spell's description tells you to make an attack roll for the spell to cause damage then that spell can crit an opponent. If the spells description says nothing about making an attack roll then it is not a weapon like spell.

Edit: From the Complete Arcane's critical descriptions you can crit with a touch spell even though the spell itself does not require an attack roll but an attack roll is needed to touch your opponent. I quess you are just touching your opponent in a more vital spot.

Hypersmurf · Jun 25, 2006

Jubilee said:
As I understand it, you cannot power attack with a light weapon - and unarmed attacks are considered light weapons - at least for purposes of attacking when grappled.

Note that: You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks)...

If you deliver your Inflict X Wounds spell with an unarmed strike, you can certainly add your Power Attack to the unarmed strike damage.

-Hyp.

Lord Pendragon · Jun 25, 2006

Hypersmurf said:
If you deliver your Inflict X Wounds spell with an unarmed strike, you can certainly add your Power Attack to the unarmed strike damage.

Ah, but then it's not a touch attack any more.

Can you Power Attack with a melee touch attack?

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