Paladin as a template instead of a class

[Hawken]

What do you guys think of this idea?

It could look something like this:

PALADIN
Size and Type: As per Base creature.
HD: All future HD change to D10.
Speed: Same as Base creature.
Armor Class: The Paladin gains a morale bonus to AC equal to his Charisma modifier.
BAB: Same as Base creature's class.
Special Abilities: The Paladin has the following powers. If applicable, the DC of any saves against these abilities is equal to 10 + 1/2 Paladin's HD + Charisma modifier.
--Detect Evil: Paladin's can Detect Evil at will, as per the spell.
--Smite Evil: A number of times per day equal to the Paladin's Wisdom modifier, he can make a Smite attack against any Evil creature. This attack gives a bonus to Attack equal to the Paladin's Charisma modifier and a bonus to damage equal to the Paladin's total HD. At 15 and 20 HD, the Paladin gains an extra use of Smite Evil.
--Healing Touch: The Paladin can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his Charisma modifier times his HD each day. At 5th level, the Paladin can also use Remove Disease or Neutralize Poison once/week. At 10, 15 and 20 HD, the Paladin gains an additional weekly use of Remove Disease or Neutralize Poison.
--Turn Undead: The Paladin gains the ability to Turn Undead as a Cleric two levels lower than the Paladin's HD.
--Summon Mount: Paladins can summon

Special Qualities:
--Divine Grace: The Paladin gains a bonus to all saves equal to his Charisma modifier.

Abilities: As per Base creature.

Skills: Paladins gain a +4 Insight bonus to Heal, Knowledge (Religion) and Sense Motive checks.

Feats: Paladins gain the Diehard, Mounted Combat and Power Attack feats if they do not already have them, even if they do not meet the prerequisites.

Requirements
Alignment: Paladins must be Lawful Good. If they commit an Evil act or their alignment changes, they lose all abilities of this template. If they willingly perform an Evil act, they lose this template permanently.
Code of Conduct: Paladins must follow the Code of Conduct determined by their faith.
Associates: Paladins may associate with Good and Neutral characters. They may never, willingly associate with anyone of Evil alignment, nor will they continue to associate with someone that continues to offend their moral code.

[Hereticus]

Originally Posted by Hawken

What do you guys think of this idea?

All templates have an assigned LA, I'm not sure what you had in mind.

I'd probably assign an LA+3 to it.

[Kerrick]

Why not just make it a PrC? You're already halfway there. Plus, if a sorcerer takes this template (no-brainer), he'd get a huge boost, at least for hit points and saves.

[Hawken]

I was thinking template instead of class for the same reason I didn't want PrC; if the paladin screws up, he's (possibly permanently) a featless fighter from then on; 5, 10, whatever levels wasted because of one bad decision, or because of a disagreement on the morality of an action with the DM.

By making it a template, there's no danger of that. If the paladin is also a fighter, or a cleric, or even a sorcerer, and he messes up or disagrees with the DM bad enough, he's still a fighter, cleric or sorcerer. Looking back, I'd be ok with leaving the HD unchanged, or as whatever the character's current class happens to be.

I would say LA +0 or maybe +1, at the most. With the guidelines for being a paladin so strict, its not going to be something just anyone can pick up. Its a very narrow path to follow and not one that someone is just going to pick up for the bonus to saves, the detect evil or the smiting. Also, unlike most other templates, this template can be lost. By keeping it at LA +0, if the template is lost, there's no penalties to deal with; the character just goes back to being what he was before.

I was also thinking of instituting the 1st edition ability score requirements of a 12 Str and 17 Cha, and maybe increasing them to Str 14 and Cha 19 given how much easier it is in 3e to increase ability scores.

[Hereticus]

Originally Posted by Hawken

I was also thinking of instituting the 1st edition ability score requirements of a 12 Str and 17 Cha, and maybe increasing them to Str 14 and Cha 19 given how much easier it is in 3e to increase ability scores.

Rules we never used from first edition were attribute score minimums, level maximums, and 10% EXP bonuses for high scores.

Yes restrictions on being a Paladin are tough, but nobody plays a Paladin unless they want to. Stay with the LA+2 or +3.

[Kerrick]

If you want to go the template route, call it something like "favored of the gods" - someone who has led a life of such piety that he gains all those abilities. Leave the HD unchanged, give them the ability to channel divine energy (which grants all turning, lay on hands, etc.), and add that it can only be granted by the god or a divine proxy. Then you add another quality called, oh, "path of the righteous" that states the PC must follow the god's tenets or lose all his abilities and forever after be normal. That would give you about an LA +1.

[Aus_Snow]

Personally, I would drop the Summon Mount ability and Mounted Combat feat. In fact, I'd also get rid of bonus feats altogether.

Not all 'Paladin'-types are necessarily going to be (or even going to be able to be, perhaps) quite so literally (or quite so typically, in this precise way) the 'White Knight' figure, Pokemount included. Just my opinion though, obviously.

And feats, well they just don't work for me in this context. YMM, and looks like it probably does, V.

To reasonably accurately emulate (well, replace) a boost in HD (I would have suggested an increase in HD of one die type, *IF* going that way, rather than simply a d10, regardless. . .) - just give 'em a +2 sacred Con bonus; that'll do the trick (+1 HP per HD, from Con, is identical to the average gain from an increase of one die type).

Smite Evil, I would limit to being based on either Wis bonus or HD, not both. Wis bonus sounds alright to me, what with MAD out to work its mischief, to some extent [combat stats and Cha and Wis?! Oh well, uh. . . at least I don't have to be smart, too! ].

Three levels lower for Turn Undead seems fair, not two. Or is that just my 3e conditioning. . . Offer a feat in the system used, for raising effective turning level, and hey, no problem anyway, if it's that big a deal.

All that said, LA +1 should be OK. To be honest though, I feel it's a bit weak for any LA. But I'm biased that way (Upper_Krust's appendix v5 to his Immortals Handbook is my current [rough] guide for CRs, ECLs and so on, and when it's not, I tend to think along similar lines anyway). The upshot being, I view 3e's LA adjustments as universally priced too high*, poor value for actual play, however one might wish to phrase it.

* Well, in particular, when it comes to mixing them with spellcasting classes. Big surprise, I guess. Or yeah, really expensive ones that don't compensate for HDs lost, in the case of melee types.