Software, Computers, Video Games and D&D UtilitiesGeneral discussion on computer software and hardware, PC and console games, and RPG utilities such as eTools, PC GEN, etc.
I had three Dell desktops (purchased in 1995, 2000, and 2003), and never had any problems with any of them. The Dell laptop I got in late 2006 had a video card that fried early this year, had oddball problems since it got back to mostly working state after two trips to the repair depot, and at this point I think I need a reinstall to see if it's salvageable. Since I'm getting a new laptop for work, I've given up and ordered a new desktop.
Very similar history with Dell desktops, although I just bought my third a few weeks ago.
I've had great luck with their fairly high end systems and their technical support guys have always been quite good. We also use Dells at work -- hundreds and hundreds of them -- and it's clear they are at least reliable.
Eh. On the low-end, assuming you want a legit copy of Windows and don't have one, and aren't otherwise cannibalizing parts from an older system, OEM boxes are cheaper; the midrange is a wash; and ultra-high-end isn't worth it anyway.
Edit: In the US, anyway; in Europe, things may very well be different.
Eh. On the low-end, assuming you want a legit copy of Windows and don't have one, and aren't otherwise cannibalizing parts from an older system, OEM boxes are cheaper; the midrange is a wash; and ultra-high-end isn't worth it anyway.
Not entirely sure what you are saying here...
Bye
Thanee
P.S. As for the legit Windows... you can simply buy system builder versions here without having to get it together with a computer. And you actually own the software then, regardless of what MS puts into the license agreement, because german law doesn't allow some of the stuff they have in there; especially the part that they are only selling the right to use it.
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I agree, too expensive. Not *way* too expensive, but yes, the difference is there.
The 'system builder' version of Windows is the OEM version, btw.
The only time I've seen Dell be cheaper for anything is the occasional *very* good deal on one or two of their LCD monitors.
The parts are no better than what you'll get elsewhere (and often subpar), warranties are likewise no better, and service is - on average - worse than that of the smaller businesses (around here, at least).
But there is certainly a lot of room for regional variation, anecdotal evidence and so on.
Basically, for a cheap box with all new parts and a legal copy of Windows (at least in the US) you can't beat a pre-built system on price by building your own, or even come all that close. For a midrange system it's about even.
And building a high end box is crazy unless you need it for work, in which case you want someone else to do it so there's a support contract in place, or you're a hardcore PC gamer (in which case, yes, you should build your own).
Basically, for a cheap box with all new parts and a legal copy of Windows (at least in the US) you can't beat a pre-built system on price by building your own, or even come all that close. For a midrange system it's about even.
I see. Well, that's definitely not the case here. While there are plenty of companies around that sell pre-built systems (including Dell, HP, Fujitsu, and so on), the only reasonable use of those I can think of is for businesses, so the computers are all roughly the same, and because of long-running service contracts (which I would never consider for a home computer).
Other than that custom always wins... price, performance, quality, upgradeability, in every regard really.
For a mere €20 I get all the parts I want put together professionally including testing, OS pre-installation, and so on, and with a 2yr warranty on the full system on top (which is more than enough to cover the occasional defective hardware). I can even bring some of my own parts from somewhere else (as I did last time with the case, since they didn't have the one I wanted, anymore ).
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And building a high end box is crazy unless you need it for work, in which case you want someone else to do it so there's a support contract in place, or you're a hardcore PC gamer (in which case, yes, you should build your own).
Don't even need to be a hardcore gamer. I wouldn't consider myself as such, yet I have a fairly high end machine (or had, one and a half years ago; it still runs all the new games, though ).
But maybe the situation is different here, quite possible.
You can buy System Builder / OEM Windows seperately here. It's illegal to restrict them to a specific machine.
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
You can buy System Builder / OEM Windows seperately here.
You can here, too (though it'll only be good for one machine). But generally a cheap Dell (or especially a cheap store brand PC) is less expensive than the cost of parts + OEM Windows.
Getting a computer through a big box store may be a good idea. It's cheap and easy. The support not so good. A local Mom and Pop can be a good idea, if you can find one that will survive.
Then again if you require really good support you may want to buy from a boutique vendor. Puget System is one such example.
__________________ Livin' in a lonely world
"That's so freakin' dorky it's cool!!!" - krunchyfrogg
You can here, too (though it'll only be good for one machine).
That's the difference, the "you bought it, but we still own it, you just got the right to use it as we please" crap doesn't work here. If you buy it, you own the copy and can install it wherever you want (one installation at a time only, of course).
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But generally a cheap Dell (or especially a cheap store brand PC) is less expensive than the cost of parts + OEM Windows.
I see.
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
Getting a computer through a big box store may be a good idea. It's cheap and easy. The support not so good. A local Mom and Pop can be a good idea, if you can find one that will survive.
Quite a few years ago my father tried to make a business building and selling computers. Even taking his time and searching for deals he was not able to compete with big-name computer companies. It would have been cheaper for him to buy pre-built computers from these companies and cannibalize them.
But he offered service with every computer he bought. Years later after he had officially given up on the business he still occasionally went to customer's houses to fix them up, good to his word.
I'm a fan of Mom & Pop computer stores, but they do have a hard time surviving because it's impossible to compete with big companies who sell pre-built PCs.
__________________ Adventure is not outside; it is within. --Found in a fortune cookie on game night
Strangely I think I'd be okay with having a PC die by a bear exploding out of his head. --Awayfarer, after having his PC put a furry ball from a Bag of Tricks into his mouth.
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I ended up going with Dell since the only place I could find locally that builds PCs wanted to charge me more money for a less powerful computer. I got something pretty decent for just a tad over $1k. I don't do enough PC gaming anymore to justify the price of a higher-end system.
Now I need monitor advice! I'd like to get a new monitor, too, but I'm not sure what to get. Are TN panel monitors as crappy as I've heard they are? Because it seems like, if you want a higher-quality panel, it's quite a big jump in price.
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I ended up going with Dell since the only place I could find locally that builds PCs wanted to charge me more money for a less powerful computer. I got something pretty decent for just a tad over $1k. I don't do enough PC gaming anymore to justify the price of a higher-end system.
Now I need monitor advice! I'd like to get a new monitor, too, but I'm not sure what to get. Are TN panel monitors as crappy as I've heard they are? Because it seems like, if you want a higher-quality panel, it's quite a big jump in price.
If you don't game, and you spent $1K w/o a monitor, you probably bought too much system. Heck, I think the $550 Dell I just bought because my laptop is dead was likely overkill (given that I pretty much only game on my Xbox 360); a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo with 4 GB of RAM is not going have any trouble running Visual Studio 2008, SQL Server Express, and IIS at the same time, and isn't going to run anything more demanding than that. But I couldn't make myself stick with a Pentium Dual Core (even at 2.5 GHz) or integrated graphics.
And no, TN panels aren't crappy. They're not the best, but go look at some panels at a store before dismissing them out of hand.
Oh, I do game, just not as much as I used to. And like I said, I like to keep my computers for a long time. I bought mid-high end last time, and it's lasted me five years. If I'd gone cheaper, I would have had to upgrade a year or two ago, probably.
And thanks for the advice about monitors. I guess I'd better go shop around a bit before I get something.
Oh, I do game, just not as much as I used to. And like I said, I like to keep my computers for a long time. I bought mid-high end last time, and it's lasted me five years. If I'd gone cheaper, I would have had to upgrade a year or two ago, probably.
The thing is that it's kind of a bad time to try and build something to keep for a long time. Core i7's with DDR3 memory are a terrible value proposition right now; Core 2 Duo/Pentium Dual Core systems with DDR2 are cheap but will be replaced with Core i7-family chips next year. The fastest normally available CPU for apps most people run is a 3.33 GHz Core 2 Duo E8600; the future is probably quads (though I suspect Amdhal's law will raise some objections), but it's insane to buy a low-end quad unless you do a lot of audio/video (or otherwise heavily multi-threaded) work because the dual-core at the same price point is too much better for everything else.
Also worth noting is that $1K for a desktop w/o a monitor isn't even 'upper midrange' anymore, it's very definitively high-end.
I have a TN panel. It's actually not that bad. Basically, unless you're doing professional publishing/pre-publishing or graphics work, don't sweat it.
I more or less agree with Thanee: 22" to 24" (or so) is probably about the best value for money, last I checked. It's what I went with recently-ish, and honestly, I couldn't be happier with it.
I do a fair bit of gaming, and a fair bit of other stuff - and yeah, the cheap[er] LCD hasn't let me down so far. Just make sure to check if it's one with any (or much) backlight bleed, and keep an eye out for response times.
From memory though, the majority of LCD monitors are actually going to contain one of only a handful of brand panels, anyhow.
I'd recommend doing a bit of research and price-checking, whatever you go with in the end.
Last edited by Aus_Snow; 13th December 2008 at 03:48 AM..
Quite a few years ago my father tried to make a business building and selling computers. Even taking his time and searching for deals he was not able to compete with big-name computer companies. It would have been cheaper for him to buy pre-built computers from these companies and cannibalize them.
But he offered service with every computer he bought. Years later after he had officially given up on the business he still occasionally went to customer's houses to fix them up, good to his word.
I'm a fan of Mom & Pop computer stores, but they do have a hard time surviving because it's impossible to compete with big companies who sell pre-built PCs.
Yes, people want low prices and service; unfortunately those two things don't go together
I am glad your father kept to his word. Integrity is so hard to find... As an aside I probably wouldn't have done the same.
__________________ Livin' in a lonely world
"That's so freakin' dorky it's cool!!!" - krunchyfrogg
If you dont mind the extra bulk and power consumption of a CRT than the ThinkVision C220p from IBM isnt bad. $589 is a pretty cheap price to pay for the image quality it offers.
If you dont mind the extra bulk and power consumption of a CRT than the ThinkVision C220p from IBM isnt bad. $589 is a pretty cheap price to pay for the image quality it offers.
You do realize that review is nearly five years old, right?
I purchased a new 24" Flat widescreen TN panel LG W2452T before Xmas for $319 CDN. I am extremely pleased with it. Colors are great, contrast is excellent and the speed - at about 2MS - is blistering for games. 1920x1200
You could give me a 24" CRT 4:3 aspect monitor for FREE - and I'd still be buying a 24" widescreen flat panel.
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