Advice needed - buying a new PC

[Grog]

So, I'm looking to buy a new desktop PC. The one I have right now is old enough that I figure it's not worth trying to upgrade it piecemeal; it's better to get an entirely new system. So I'm looking for advice on where to get it. Option 1 is to buy from Dell or some other major PC company; while they're more expensive, I have the peace of mind of knowing that the system will work (my current computer is a Dell and it's lasted me almost five years). Option 2 is to buy from one of those no-frills online PC retailers; they're a fair bit cheaper, but I'm not sure I want to take a crapshoot on a new PC.

I'm not really interested in trying to build a system myself - I'd just rather not hassle with something like that.

So, any advice on places to look at buying this thing?

[Reveille]

I've had my current computer for 7 years and I'm looking at replacing this holiday season.

It is a Gateway. Not sure if they are even still in business though.

[Thanee]

If you are not comfortable building the PC yourself, I would definitly not recommend it. While it's not really hard, there are still enough pitfalls.

I generally think it's the best way to let some retailer build your PC with handpicked components, as long as they give decent warranty.

I would never buy a PC from one of those major companies. I really don't see any advantage there, it just costs more.

For my own PC, I just go to a PC store here (there are plenty around), which offer this kind of service and it costs very little (~€25) to have it put together including preinstalling OS with a 2-year warranty on the whole system on top.

I'm not sure what options in this direction you have, but I'm reasonably sure there are online retailers that should offer this kind of service and are perfectly reliable.


As for what components you should look out for, that depends on what you want to do with it...

Bye
Thanee

[Aus_Snow]

Yeah, just check your local or nearby shops, compare prices, make sure the place you buy from has been around for a while, and seems legit, and so forth.

It might prove advantageous - of course, hopefully it doesn't come to this anyway! - to be able to take your PC in to somewhere nearby, and wait for a lot less time as well, before getting it back.

I've heard some horror stories about Dell, and others. But then again, the same goes for smaller businesses. I guess, ask around your local area, see what others' experiences with prices, warranties, repairs, returns and so on have been liike. The field is probably quite a bit different there from here, so I won't even try to get more specific.

But best of luck, and if you have any questions about hardware or the like, I and/or a number of others here would be more than happy to provide some information and opinions.

[Fallen Seraph]

How good are you at simply knowing what parts you want? Like do you know what motherboard you want, what graphics card you want, etc?

Since if that is the case (or even if you only got a general idea) then sometimes the local good PC shops will be willing to order the parts and make it for you. I know my local PC place, you pay the parts through them (they buy straight from manufacturer to so cheaper) and they build it, no charge right there in the shop.

[Merkuri]

My last two desktop computers have come from TigerDirect.com, and I haven't been disappointed. They sell both fully-built computers and what are called "barebones" systems, which means they're missing a few key parts (like a video card). I think both computers I bought were missing a video card - the first time I bought it like that because the video card was the only decent thing in my old PC and the second time I did it because it was cheaper.

A barebones system may be a way to compromise on your "don't want to buy pieces and put it together myself" because most of the essentials are there, you're just missing one or two big things - and they usually tell you what you're missing. But if you don't want to worry about it at all you can buy one of their pre-built computers.

I like TigerDirect because they usually have good deals, and they don't have all the nonsense of a brand name. (By the way, don't buy Dell if you ever plan on upgrading pieces inside - I once had to buy an $80 power supply for my Dell - something that should cost maybe $25 - because they used a nonstandard motherboard and so I needed to get specifically a Dell-branded power supply.)

[Grog]

Thanks for the replies. I have a pretty good idea of what I want for the PC; I've done some reading on the subject and I'm going with Intel for the CPU and NVidia for the video card. I'll check around with local stores, but I'm not sure what my options are there. Does anyone have any favorite online retailers? I'll check out the one that Merkuri posted, but it'd be nice to have some other places to look, too.

[Woas]

I've never owned a Dell. But so far everyone I know who has (close friends, relatives) ran into problems with them. Every computer has problems... so its not particularly Dell's fault or the real issue. The real issue they had was Dell computers use maybe 50-75% of their own custom made components so if something goes wrong there is a lot of bureaucratic hoops they had to jump through to get a very easily fixed part replaced or fixed. Either having to buy over-prices replacements or sending your machine back and forth through the mail which is pricey.

For example a Power Supply unit (PSU) on a friends Dell went bad. He had to buy a special Dell only PSU because they use the non-universal special Dell only kind. This special PSU, (which really isn't special at all, it just has some of the pins on the plugs moved around to match the pins of a Dell motherboard), cost him $100 plus S+H, where as a normal PSU of the same type probably would have been $20 plus S+H. And on top of that, when he was trying to just replace this simple part the Dell people were trying to pitch sales to him! It's not a huge deal but just saying.


I myself have been eyeing computers. I don't plan to build one for a while still, but I like to keep up-to-date on stuff. Back in the day (like, 4+ years ago) building your own computer usually cost you half as much as buying a pre-built one. I've noticed now a days it really isn't the case anymore. My friend picked up a computer from CyberPower (CyberPower Inc. - building the best Gaming PC is not only our profession, it is our obsession.) and got a real nice computer for a great price. After comparing what he got, I really couldn't build one myself for any cheaper than what the site was selling theirs for. So I'm sure if you do some searching there are some nice places on the net that will sell good PCs, with Tech Support, and not use all custom parts.

[Merkuri]

Originally Posted by Woas

For example a Power Supply unit (PSU) on a friends Dell went bad. He had to buy a special Dell only PSU because they use the non-universal special Dell only kind. This special PSU, (which really isn't special at all, it just has some of the pins on the plugs moved around to match the pins of a Dell motherboard), cost him $100 plus S+H, where as a normal PSU of the same type probably would have been $20 plus S+H.

That is EXACTLY what happened to me. Have you ever gone to school in Pennsylvania.

[Calico_Jack73]

For me it comes down to two things... cost and service.

Cost - This is probably the most minor of the two to me. I always buy the most powerful system I can (within reason) because it will be just that much longer before I have to replace it. I bought a P4 2Ghz Dell in 2001 and I just replaced it this year. Seven years wasn't bad and I still could run most games and software on it. It is even more of a non-issue if you have some way of getting a discount. My company had a 26% discount with Dell when I bought my new machine AND Dell was offering $600 off the XPS 420. I ended up getting a machine worth $4600 for $3000. With that kind of discount I doubt I could have built it myself for as cheap.

Service - This to me is the biggie. If I have issues with my machine I don't want to go hunting through a file drawer full of component warranty information. With Dell or HP I can just call their tech support, give them my service tag number and they can then pull up my system as built. I've never had a problem with Dell or Gateway support. In fact, the sound card on my old machine went out and I spent a bit of time troubleshooting it to identify that it was a hardware problem. I called Dell and told the tech that I did this stuff for a living and that I had already done the troubleshooting. I was fully prepared to be walked through "The Checklist" but they totally suprised me... they didn't. They simply asked to confirm my address and I had my new sound card the next day. I will never forget that! If you buy a Dell XPS system you get the preferential treatment. The person that answers the phone is the person that will work through the problem with you from beginning to end. The XPS support is also in the United States which might be important for those of you who dislike being sent to support in India.

Long story short... Support is what keeps me going back to Dell. I've been doing IT for 14 years and could certainly build my own but after working on computers all day I just want my machine at home to work and every Dell, HP, or Gateway I've had has done that reliably through the entire period of ownership. I'd rather spend my time at home playing games, not fixing my own machine.

[Calico_Jack73]

Originally Posted by Woas

For example a Power Supply unit (PSU) on a friends Dell went bad. He had to buy a special Dell only PSU because they use the non-universal special Dell only kind. This special PSU, (which really isn't special at all, it just has some of the pins on the plugs moved around to match the pins of a Dell motherboard), cost him $100 plus S+H, where as a normal PSU of the same type probably would have been $20 plus S+H. And on top of that, when he was trying to just replace this simple part the Dell people were trying to pitch sales to him! It's not a huge deal but just saying.

I also had to replace my PSU on my Dell. Not because it went bad but because I got a AGP card that needed more power. I found out about the propietary PSU but the guy at Microcenter helped me out. I bought a little tool called a "Nibbler" which I used to cut out part of the sheet metal which would have covered the socket in the generic PSU. It worked like a charm and is still working.

Can't say I ever ran into a problem with pins on the motherboard. There is an adapter that will make an ATX PSU work on a Dell motherboard. You can find info here: Adapter for Dell Power Supply. This problem was also with older Dells, the newer ones don't have this problem.

Don't listen when people say that Dell memory is proprietary. I upgraded my system with memory I bought from Crucial and had no problem at all.

[Merkuri]

Originally Posted by Calico_Jack73

There is an adapter that will make an ATX PSU work on a Dell motherboard. You can find info here: Adapter for Dell Power Supply.

Damn, I wish I knew about that back when I had my dell PC. Probably would've saved me $50.

[azhrei_fje]

It sounds like you plan to keep the machine for awhile. I don't.

I buy the cheapest laptop I can get that will boot a live CD of Kubuntu and I use for a year or two, then buy another one.

I always have fairly recent hardware to use and a spare laptop in a crunch. And I get a kick out of returning the Windows DVDs and asking for my money back from the retailer. That reduces the price of the unit even more.

Since I am self-employed I can write-off my taxes any computer purchases. I particularly like the $500 special bundles. I pay $700 (deduct that on my taxes) then file the rebate paperwork. So the unit cost $500 minus the tax break amount of about $200. Then I donate the monitor and printer that I'm never going to use anyway and take another tax break (charitable contribution). I can get a nice machine for about $100 or so.

[Graybeard]

HI,

I would not recommend Dell mostly due to customer service issues. I used to sell computers at a large office supply store. A lot of customers would come in looking for replacement parts for their Dell and we would (unfortunately) have to tell them to contact Dell. They often would tell us they tried and had lots of difficulties. I have also read many complaints about Dell's customer service on the internet.

As others have suggested, try a local shop that has been around for awhile. Check with the local BBB to see if there are any complaints filed against them before you do any business with them though. Just because a shop has been around a long time doesn't mean they are any good. I know one of my local computer shops has been in business for about 20 years but any local computer tech will tell you that they are not a good shop to deal with.

Talk to any computer repair people in your area (Geek Squad, etc.). They will tell you what brands/shops they recommend. Some of them even do computer repair on their own time (against company policy usually).

If you really want to buy a name brand, try an HP. They are easy to upgrade and parts cane be purchased anywhere. Their customer service is better than other name brands (but still not as good as IBM or Apple).

Just my 2 cents worth.

Graybeard

[Calico_Jack73]

Originally Posted by Graybeard

If you really want to buy a name brand, try an HP.

HP does NOT include an OS CD with your new machine. If you want to rebuild your system then you've got to burn your own recovery DVD (and to go with a single DVD you have to use a Dual Layer DVD). That's right... I said DVD because the recovery includes all of the Trialware that HP installed on your system at delivery and it won't fit on a single CD. If you plan on wiping out your system and rebuilding it with a free OS like one of the various Linux builds then this isn't a problem... but if you want to use the Windows license that comes with your machine then this is a problem if you ever need/want to rebuild your machine. At least Dell always gave me a clean Windows OS Install CD and a SEPARATE CD with all of the drivers and trialware.

[Thanee]

Don't these prebuild systems typically have recovery CDs (or DVDs) these days?

Or at least a recovery partition on the hard drive?

Bye
Thanee

[Merkuri]

Originally Posted by Thanee

Don't these prebuild systems typically have recovery CDs (or DVDs) these days?

Or at least a recovery partition on the hard drive?

Actually, I think the trend is that they won't give you any physical CDs or DVDs anymore. They'll either have a recovery partition on the hard drive (which I think is risky - what happens if the hard drive gets ruined?) or they'll give you the software already on the drive to burn your own recovery DVDs. This was probably done to save money on physical disks.

[Graybeard]

Very few (if any) will give you recovery discs anymore. They expect the user to create them after they get the machine home and set up. In my experience, the average computer user doesn't know about this and runs into trouble when their hard drive dies and they are stuck buying the recovery discs from the manufacturer. You are right about HP not giving you the Windows CD/DVD though. I have an HP desktop and a Gateway laptop. Neither came with Windows discs. Luckily I made the recovery discs for my desktop when I set it up. After nearly 6 years, the hard drive died. Fortunately, I had my important files (pictures, music, documents) backed up on an external hard drive. It was easy enough to reinstall everything. After that, I uninstalled a lot of the crap that came with the system just like I did years ago when I first bought it.

My previous desktop was a custom built one. A friend of mine owned his own shop. It cost a lot more than a pre-built unit but it had the components I wanted and when something wasn't working right, I brought it back to him for repair. Unfortunately, he couldn't compete on price with the large manufacturers and went out of business. The average user was more interested in a low price than quality.

[Thanee]

Originally Posted by Merkuri

Actually, I think the trend is that they won't give you any physical CDs or DVDs anymore. They'll either have a recovery partition on the hard drive (which I think is risky - what happens if the hard drive gets ruined?) ...

Yep, that's really silly, unless you ...

... or they'll give you the software already on the drive to burn your own recovery DVDs.

... can burn it on a DVD at least to make your own.

This was probably done to save money on physical disks.

It's not like these things cost much, but yeah...

Quite possible, the only PC I ever bought with a preinstalled OS was a notebook.

Bye
Thanee

[drothgery]

I had three Dell desktops (purchased in 1995, 2000, and 2003), and never had any problems with any of them. The Dell laptop I got in late 2006 had a video card that fried early this year, had oddball problems since it got back to mostly working state after two trips to the repair depot, and at this point I think I need a reinstall to see if it's salvageable. Since I'm getting a new laptop for work, I've given up and ordered a new desktop.