Software, Computers, Video Games and D&D UtilitiesGeneral discussion on computer software and hardware, PC and console games, and RPG utilities such as eTools, PC GEN, etc.
Dragon Age is the big one I'm looking forward to. I'm hoping it comes out by June, so I can nab it before finishing my thesis.
Starcraft II I'm looking forward to, but only as a single player game. I'll probably play multiplayer with my friends, but I'm not terribly interested in Battle.net and random people.
Diablo III will be fun, but like others here I don't think it will come out this year.
Those are the big three that I'm interested in. I'll probably pick up Sacred 2 on Steel_Wind's suggestion (we seem to have similar tastes... in games at least ), but seeing as how I still haven't gotten to Mass Effect, let alone cleared out my list of games to finish... I don't know when I'd get to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel_Wind
The whole concept of exclusive titles has essentially died. It was always a concept that occurred in the past more due to happenstance than by clever design or any real marketing inititative. If you think otherwise, well... for the most part, it just looked that way.
I'm not sure it's totally happenstance so much as a combination of:
1) While the general coding was the same, hardware was quite different as you go back in console generations. This is especially true when you go back to the cart vs. CD days. The only people that bothered were shovelware producers.
2) In general today there's been a convergence of hardware specs fueled by the influence of PCs, and specifically the emergence of only a few dedicated processor developers (AMD, Intel).
I totally agree about the economic detriment of exclusive titles. There is absolutely no natural stimulus for game developers to stay exclusive - you want as many people as possible buying your game. Only large payments by the console developers keep this happening at all... and even now they're generally windows of exclusivity (see: Mass Effect) rather than true exclusive titles.
Don't know where you're getting this intel from. Exclusive titles are often aggressively pursued, at least in Microsoft's case. Mass Effect, Halo, Gears of War, and Fable are franchises they intend to pay to keep. Sony has recently spoken up and said they aren't going in that direction anymore.
I get my intel from the game industry: reading it, watching it, contracting in it for both my own game development company and on behalf of clients in the game industry.
BTW, from the above list? Not a single title you listed as an "exclusive" was, in fact, "exclusive":
Mass Effect Not an exclusive. It skipped the PS3 due to engine issues and dev specs. ME went to PC within months of release for the 360.
This is being repeated with Dragon Age: Origins, except in reverse. It's out for PC first, 360 and PS3 for November 2009.
Gears of War? Same story. Indeed, the PC version included bonus content.
Fable: Ditto. The PC version also included bonus content.
Halo? Same story - though in that case Microsoft bought the company to ensure it would go console first, PC second, and PS2/3, never.
Exclusives simply make little sense in an age where the dev costs of games is so astronomically high.
__________________ .Robert
roXidy Games Inc.
Last edited by Steel_Wind; 14th January 2009 at 04:12 AM..
I do not know if it will be released in 2009, but Elemental: War of Magic, Stardock's new fantasy 4X game is gunning for a public beta beginning in June.
There are a lot of games I am looking forward to more than that one, but I anticipate it being really good, and I am not sure how many folks would have heard of it already.
__________________ -Kaodi
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.
-Iago, Shakespeare's Othello, Act III. Scene III. Lines 180-186.
BTW, from the above list? Not a single title you listed as an "exclusive" was, in fact, "exclusive":
They're absolutely exclusives. They might be Microsoft exclusives rather than simply Xbox 360, but exclusives nonetheless. Either way a deal is made which restricts content to a certain company, and keeps it away from others.
However, I would disagree that Sony avoids a similar practice. They might be on record stating they don't "buy exclusivity" -- which might be semantically correct in reference to huge titles like Final Fantasy or GTA -- but they have locked down third-party games in publishing arrangements just like Microsoft.
They're absolutely exclusives. They might be Microsoft exclusives rather than simply Xbox 360, but exclusives nonetheless. Either way a deal is made which restricts content to a certain company, and keeps it away from others.
Exactly. Steel Wind's retort puzzles the heck out of me. Someone who's informed about the industry probably knows that the company that makes Windows is also the company that makes the Xbox. The Xbox was conceived as a way to take advantage of folks developing games for Windows, by expanding the market to gamers who prefer to play with a controller in front of their TV's.
Thus, a game that's available only on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Xbox is, of course, a Microsoft exclusive. The rapport between the two is a feature, not a flaw.
Last edited by Felon; 17th January 2009 at 06:50 AM..
I do not know if it will be released in 2009, but Elemental: War of Magic, Stardock's new fantasy 4X game is gunning for a public beta beginning in June.
I'd completely missed this one. If it's on par with GalCivII, then I'll be picking it up pretty quickly.
They're absolutely exclusives. They might be Microsoft exclusives rather than simply Xbox 360, but exclusives nonetheless.
A Microsoft exclusive? Are you saying that with a straight face?
Let me help your analysis out a little: One of those titles earns Micrsoft a royalty; the other does not.
Your expansive definition of "exclusive" would have been greatly appreciated by EA/BioWare, when it had to explain to its fans in Jan 08 that its 360 "exclusive" Mass Effect released in November 07 was due to be released in February 08 for the PC. (As events transpired, it didn't get released till about May 08 for the PC).
There were few fans at that time who understood "exclusive" to mean "not on PS3".
Not even EA PR in full flight was trying to spin that as an "exclusive". The best they could say was that their marketing claims that Mass Effect was an "exclusive" were true...at the time it was initally released.
Because when it's available on more than one platform, it is no longer "exclusive". That's the common meaning of the word in the english language. And *nobody* in the game industry suggests that a title on a console and PC meets the definition of "exclusive".
There were few fans at that time who understood "exclusive" to mean "not on PS3".
By the time Mass Effect came out, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to believe Xbox games don't get ported to the PC. Halo, Halo 2, Fable, Gears of War, Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire, all big Xbox or Xbox 360 exclusives and more importantly all of Bioware's recent efforts, were already ported to the PC. It's no secret Microsoft has such a practice.
It's also no secret the size of the console industry dwarfs the size of the hardcore PC gaming crowd, and the gap has only widened since consoles started taking on genres and features which used to be exclusive to PC gaming. While a good number of people who own gaming PCs probably own consoles, the inverse of a majority of console owners maintaining gaming PCs is not true, for some very understandable reasons of expense and convenience. To say that Gears of War didn't move, and continues to move, Xbox 360 consoles because of a PC version being available? No one would rightly believe such a thing. And that's the function of exclusivity.
There were few fans at that time who understood "exclusive" to mean "not on PS3".
Not even EA PR in full flight was trying to spin that as an "exclusive". The best they could say was that their marketing claims that Mass Effect was an "exclusive" were true...at the time it was initally released.
Because when it's available on more than one platform, it is no longer "exclusive". That's the common meaning of the word in the english language. And *nobody* in the game industry suggests that a title on a console and PC meets the definition of "exclusive".
Steel Wind, come on, man. You are not the voice of the entire gaming industry. In the sense that "exclusive" means exclusive to Microsoft platforms, the word works fine. Or one prefers, it can be called a console exclusive, which it should, as a PC is an entirely different animal from a console.
To reiterate, the rationale that PS3 outnumbers 360's exclusives because 360 titles get ported to the PC--and vice versa--is of dubious merit, because the Xbox's foothold into PC gaming is a strength of the 360, not a weakness.
Last edited by Felon; 19th January 2009 at 09:18 AM..
They're absolutely exclusives. They might be Microsoft exclusives rather than simply Xbox 360, but exclusives nonetheless.
This doesn't make any sense, as it is, of course, irrelevent when discussing what 'system' a person might buy (which is the point of discussing exclusives, unless we have some amateur market analysts here making stock trading decisons. No? That's what I thought).
If someone can play GoW or Mass Effect without buying a 360, then it's not an exclusive in any relevant sense to the consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felon
Or one prefers, it can be called a console exclusive, which it should, as a PC is an entirely different animal from a console.
... the Xbox's foothold into PC gaming is a strength of the 360, not a weakness.
Gonna have to simply disagree here. I've seen enough discussion as to "what system should I buy if I want to play x" - with the PC as a system choice - to know that the above is an inaccurate statement, AFAIC.
If someone can play GoW or Mass Effect without buying a 360, then it's not an exclusive in any relevant sense to the consumer.
To most of those consumers, hardcore PC gaming may as well not exist. They're choosing between consoles and the Xbox has those titles while the PS3 doesn't. It's that simple.
To most of those consumers, ... PC gaming may as well not exist. They're choosing between consoles and the Xbox has those titles while the PS3 doesn't. It's that simple.
*shrug* Sorry - I'm not with you.
PC is a system choice to play GoW or Mass Effect. It's that simple.
I'm not the biggest shooter fan, but I find myself growing more interested in Killzone 2. Perhaps it's the ineffable allure of the chance to shoot space Nazis.
I'm also intrigued by the new trilogy of Dragon Quest remakes for the DS. Now if I could only get Amazon to sell me the time to play them...
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
If someone can play GoW or Mass Effect without buying a 360, then it's not an exclusive in any relevant sense to the consumer.
It's highly relevant for that someone wants to play a big gorgeous spectacle game on their big-screen HDTV.
Quote:
*shrug* Sorry - I'm not with you.
PC is a system choice to play GoW or Mass Effect. It's that simple.
See above. If I'm playing a PC game, I'm sitting at a desk with a monitor a foot or so from my face, clicking a keyboard and/or sliding a mouse around. The experience is very different from what I get sitting in the middle of the room in front of my 62-incher. Might as well throw DS's and PSP's into the discussion.
If a person's dedicated to playing games on a PC, then they're not in the market for a console to begin with. They're not the target audience for exclusives. There's no allure. They don't want to play an FPS on with a controller. For them, the option to play Halo or GoW on their computer in the only option they care about. Of course, the fact that MS has that market helps them to afford exclusives in the first place.
Last edited by Felon; 21st January 2009 at 05:14 PM..
If I'm playing a PC game, I'm sitting at a desk with a monitor a foot or so from my face, clicking a keyboard and/or sliding a mouse around. The experience is very different from what I get sitting in the middle of the room in front of my 62-incher.
You could just hook your PC up to your big HDTV. Some friends of mine do that --oddly, not the married ones.
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
It's highly relevant for that someone wants to play a big gorgeous spectacle game on their big-screen HDTV.
And so is the PS3 and PC having free online and the 360 a great for-pay service. And the controllers are all different. And how avatars are used is different. And the peripherals are different. Blah blah blah.
All wonderful factors to take into account when considering what system to buy a game on. Doesn't have anything to do with exclusive games, though.
Like I said: if I can buy GoW/etc on the PC and/or the 360 and/or other machines, it's not exclusive. Beyond that, the choice is up to the individual consumer based on a myriad of factors important to them - and they actually have that choice... therefore, not exclusive. (I'm sure other "definitions" of 'exclusive' are great and fascinating and all that - but I'm not on board with them.)
Quote:
Might as well throw DS's and PSP's into the discussion.
Absolutely, if the same GoW/Mass Effect/whatever are on those systems. Let me know when that happens, so we can "throw (them) into the discussion".
If a person's dedicated to playing games on a PC, then they're not in the market for a console to begin with.
I see.
So. I have six gaming PCs. I ALSO have a Wii, A 360 and a PS3.
In addition to playing games on a PC, I run a company that makes PC Games as well.
Just exaclty how "dedicated" to playing games on a PC do I have to be before I'm "not in the market for a console"? Could you explain to me in what manner my dedication is lacking so I can get to work on fixing that?
Or perhaps a more accurate way of putting it is this: when you say "they" and "them", in fact, you mean something else entirely. You really mean: "me, and people who think like me".
That would be a far cry from citing the wants of the nameless and faceless "they" and "them" to somehow convince *somebody else* of the patent and obvious correctness of your view.
__________________ .Robert
roXidy Games Inc.
Last edited by Steel_Wind; 21st January 2009 at 11:59 PM..
So. I have six gaming PCs. I ALSO have a Wii, A 360 and a PS3.
In addition to playing games on a PC, I run a company that makes PC Games as well.
Just exaclty how "dedicated" to playing games on a PC do I have to be before I'm "not in the market for a console"? Could you explain to me in what manner my dedication is lacking so I can get to work on fixing that?
Or perhaps a more accurate way of putting it is this: when you say "they" and "them", in fact, you mean something else entirely. You really mean: "me, and people who think like me".
Three words, buddy: pot, kettle, black. Given your own grandiose assertions about what everyone in the gaming industry does or doesn't think, you ought to spare me your accusations of hubris. Reality check: if you're gaming on every console and six different PC's, you're pretty much an aberration, not part of a demographic. So, unless you wish to contend that your Batcavesque setup is representative of the norm, what good does presenting it really do in terms of contradicting anything I've said?
Kindly accept that most people do have preferences of some kind. Maybe there are some guys who own an Xbox 360 but would rather wait for GoW2 to be ported to PC, but they're a negligible bunch. And they're windmill-tilters to boot, because no PC port for GoW2 is forthcoming--it's exclusive even by your standards. But if there was a port in coming in six more months, the 360 owners are by and large not going to wait, and that's borne out by how badly the PC port of GoW1 sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnwyn
(I'm sure other "definitions" of 'exclusive' are great and fascinating and all that - but I'm not on board with them.)
And there you go, right at the heart of the matter: you're dug into your position and aren't going to budge an inch. What've we got left to discuss in this little threadjack? The size of the chips on people's shoulders?
Last edited by Felon; 22nd January 2009 at 01:51 AM..
), but seeing as how I still haven't gotten to Mass Effect, let alone cleared out my list of games to finish... I don't know when I'd get to that.
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