Software, Computers, Video Games and D&D UtilitiesGeneral discussion on computer software and hardware, PC and console games, and RPG utilities such as eTools, PC GEN, etc.
While I agree that Felon is greatly overexaggerating prices, the GTX 260s aren't under $200. You'll be spending ~$250 for one. But as you say, building a great gaming PC in no way costs over $1000. Even if you demanded an i7 -- which has no real mainstream version yet -- to have a current upgrade path, it would at most add another $300 between extra CPU, RAM and motherboard costs.
Okay guys, i'm currently looking into upgrading a year old 3GHz Dell desktop that was never meant to be a game rig. I have a new 24" LCD for it, and i'm looking to get an Intel i7, 4 GB of RAM (DDR2 or DDRe, what's the big difference, and is it worth it?), a good (but not bleeding edge video card), a fast hard drive.
What would i reasonably be looking to spend? Don't need speakers or anything, i have that. It's running XP now, but i want like to see how games run with DirectX 10-11.
Okay guys, i'm currently looking into upgrading a year old 3GHz Dell desktop that was never meant to be a game rig. I have a new 24" LCD for it, and i'm looking to get an Intel i7, 4 GB of RAM (DDR2 or DDRe, what's the big difference, and is it worth it?), a good (but not bleeding edge video card), a fast hard drive.
What would i reasonably be looking to spend? Don't need speakers or anything, i have that. It's running XP now, but i want like to see how games run with DirectX 10-11.
You won't be able to upgrade the CPU to an i7. Your motherboard won't have the appropriate socket for it. If you want to replace the motherboard to get one, as of right now you're looking at: $300 for the CPU, $200-250 for the motherboard and ~$100 for 4GB of DDR3 RAM.
You'll want DDR2 RAM for your current CPU (guess it's a Core 2 Duo). It's very inexpensive. Around $20 for 2GB. (Your RAM type will be decided by your CPU, btw. Core 2 Duos use DDR2, while i7s use DDR3. The difference between them is operating frequency and latency. Overall it's not something to be concerned about. All you need to know is what your CPU requires.)
You'll be spending around 4x the amount for a fast HDD of comparative size to an average speed one. About $200 versus $50 for 250GB, as an example. I don't personally believe the performance increase is worth the price you're spending there.
The ATI 4870 is leading the price vs. performance war at the moment for single-GPU video cards. A 1GB 4870 will cost you about $240. The GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 is comparable and costs about $250. If you have a 24" monitor (which is what I have, btw) and run at a native resolution, these are your sweet spot cards for current games.
If price is a major concern, the ATI 4850 or Geforce 9800GTX can be had ~$180. Stepping down even further, the ATI 4830 and the Geforce 9800GT can be had for ~$130, sometimes even near $100.
And, of course, the Vista software will cost you $100 for the OEM version.
Thanks Bishop. A friend of mine who is more saavy than myself is suggesting just start from scratch, don't even bother using the original. He's not even sure if the Dell case would be good for upgrading, he has to take a look first. It's more money than what i wanted to spend, but on the other hand, i can get a really, really good custom built PC for ~1,500. That includes $250 for the monitor.
Honestly, you might want to try just buying a nice $200 video card to begin with. Your PC probably already has a good CPU and at least 2GB RAM. It's easy to buy a lot of expensive components you don't exactly need. The Intel i7s are great chips, but so are the Core 2 Duos, and you'll be bottlenecked by your video card long before your CPU as a general rule.
Okay guys, i'm currently looking into upgrading a year old 3GHz Dell desktop that was never meant to be a game rig. I have a new 24" LCD for it, and i'm looking to get an Intel i7, 4 GB of RAM (DDR2 or DDRe, what's the big difference, and is it worth it?), a good (but not bleeding edge video card), a fast hard drive.
What would i reasonably be looking to spend? Don't need speakers or anything, i have that. It's running XP now, but i want like to see how games run with DirectX 10-11.
Generally speaking, you should start a new thread rather than asking an unrelated question in an existing thread. That said, check out the Ars Technica system guide. It's a little out of date now and a new version should be showing up soon, but it'll help you spec out a good system. Ars Technica System Guide: September 2008 Edition: Page 1
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Honestly, you might want to try just buying a nice $200 video card to begin with. Your PC probably already has a good CPU and at least 2GB RAM. It's easy to buy a lot of expensive components you don't exactly need. The Intel i7s are great chips, but so are the Core 2 Duos, and you'll be bottlenecked by your video card long before your CPU as a general rule.
Do you know what CPU you have?
Given a 1-year old PC with a 3 GHz Intel dual-core CPU, it's almost certainly an E6850 (unless it's overclocked, but you wouldn't do that with a Dell). An X6800/X6850 or an E8400 would be possible in theory, but the E8400 is really too new, and the X6800 or X6850 too expensive to drop into something that's not set up for gaming.
And given that, I definitely agree with TwistedBishop -- you certainly don't need a CPU upgrade (even a 3.2 GHz i7 won't show any major improvement except in the most heavily multithreaded of tasks). If you've got a slimline case so it's hard to upgrade your video card, it might be easier to replace everything, because low-profile graphics cards tend to top out at the midrange, but that's about the only potential problem (assuming you don't go crazy on the video card upgrade; a dual-GPU solution or a GTX 280 will probably draw more power than your Dell's power supply can handle).
You won't be able to upgrade the CPU to an i7. Your motherboard won't have the appropriate socket for it. If you want to replace the motherboard to get one, as of right now you're looking at: $300 for the CPU, $200-250 for the motherboard and ~$100 for 4GB of DDR3 RAM.
You'll want DDR2 RAM for your current CPU (guess it's a Core 2 Duo). It's very inexpensive. Around $20 for 2GB. (Your RAM type will be decided by your CPU, btw. Core 2 Duos use DDR2, while i7s use DDR3. The difference between them is operating frequency and latency. Overall it's not something to be concerned about. All you need to know is what your CPU requires.)
You'll be spending around 4x the amount for a fast HDD of comparative size to an average speed one. About $200 versus $50 for 250GB, as an example. I don't personally believe the performance increase is worth the price you're spending there.
The ATI 4870 is leading the price vs. performance war at the moment for single-GPU video cards. A 1GB 4870 will cost you about $240. The GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 is comparable and costs about $250. If you have a 24" monitor (which is what I have, btw) and run at a native resolution, these are your sweet spot cards for current games.
If price is a major concern, the ATI 4850 or Geforce 9800GTX can be had ~$180. Stepping down even further, the ATI 4830 and the Geforce 9800GT can be had for ~$130, sometimes even near $100.
And, of course, the Vista software will cost you $100 for the OEM version.
TwistedBishop got it right, and across the board, too.
FWIW, I would vote for the Asus version of the GTX260 over the 4870. To be clear, I have one Sapphire ATI 4870 and two Asus GTX260s.
Performance on the 4870 is in theory slightly better - in practice no noticeable difference at all. In real world terms, the driver support and vastly reduced noise level on the GTX260 gives it the edge, imo. The GTX260's two external power hook ups are on top of the card - not at the back of the card like the 4870. In a tight case, this makes a difference and also makes it much easier to install the GTX260. (Power hookup on the 4870 is fiddly given the tight fit and location of hooks ups)
Both are very large video cards, but each should fit in a standard ATX case - unless you have a hard drive sticking out more than it should. Your only choice at that point will be to move the drive - because the card slot on your mobo won't be moving
Both cards will require that you get a new power supply in the 600w-650w+ range.
__________________ .Robert
roXidy Games Inc.
Last edited by Steel_Wind; 15th January 2009 at 04:37 AM..
I've got a HP Pavilion dv9000 with Vista. I'm not happy with the HP (flimsy CD/DVD drive; using the volume "slider" freezes the computer for several minutes; awkwardly placed ports), but have no problems with Vista.
Since you do not seem to want to waste your money, do not upgrade your CPU. The one you got should be more than fine for what today's software (even games) need. Wait another year at least until you go there.
For the GFX card, I would also go GF-GTX260.
DDR2 RAM is inexpensive. Get some good DDR2 RAM (2x2GB 1066MHz Dual Channel Kit from a Name Brand).
PSU is very important. Get a new one, a good one, and a sufficiently powerful one (better a bit too much, than too little). Also definitely a Name Brand here.
What else do you need? A new Mainboard maybe (some ASUS P5Q for example), unless the one in the Dell can be re-used (not sure what they use there), maybe a new Case (also depends on what the Dell has, but that is inexpensive, unless you want something really fancy), Drives (2x 500GB S-ATA II HDD plus a CD/DVD drive/burner or CD/DVD/Bluray drive/burner -- or reuse what you got in the Dell).
I would probably just take the CPU from your Dell, and custom-build everything else new, but some parts might still be good and could be reused. You should end up way below $1000 with a really nice machine.
Bye
Thanee
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In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
PSU is very important. Get a new one, a good one, and a sufficiently powerful one (better a bit too much, than too little). Also definitely a Name Brand here.
Oh yeah, make sure you do this. My personal recommendation, unless you have really hardcore or wacky hardware, is the Corsair HX-520 or HX-620, each being quiet, powerful, rock solid, efficient and modular. And not overpriced, either.
But there are a whole bunch of good ones out there. Some research can make all the difference, as always.
I've got Vista Ultimate on my Desktop and Vista Home Pro on my Laptop and I am pretty happy with both of them. The only thing that bugs me at all is that a lot of my older games aren't compatible but as time goes on and newer and better games get my attention this isn't such a big deal. I do have to read the system requirements a bit more carefully now to make sure that Vista is specifically listed as one of the OS versions the game will run under. I almost always download a demo of a game first to ensure that it runs before I purchase it now... that wasn't necessarily the case with XP.
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Thanks for the information. I have configed and reconfiged this machine ( I am fortunate to get employee discounts on this HP.) I got what I would want/need. For any issues with needing to run XP, I was told I can get Virtual Machine (free now) and install XP to run any older programs I use.
Most of the use will be for office applications, e-mail, web, music creation, minimal photoshop, and possible some RTS Games to kill time (no FPS which are usually graphic heavy and not to my taste. FPSs are better on a game console (IMHO.)
Now I just have to click the buy button. My only delay is concern for the economy. Luckily my wife just got another (better paying job) after losing her prior job. I should be in for another raise and bonus in 2 months time. But I still worry.
Specs below - any opinions on this? Thanks again.
EPP_00_KQ574AV
* – Onyx
* – Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (32-bit)
* – Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor P7350 (2.0GHz)
* – 15.4" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1680 x 1050)
* – 3GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
* – 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS
* – FREE Upgrade to 250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
* – Webcam Only
* – HP Color Matching Keyboard
* – Wireless-G Card
* – No Modem
* – SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
* – No TV Tuner w/remote control
* – High Capacity 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
* – Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
* – System Recovery DVD with Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium (32-bit)
* – HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
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Last edited by dema; 18th January 2009 at 11:01 PM..
Reason: Virtual Machine is the app.
I should be in for another raise and bonus in 2 months time. But I still worry.
That's very simple. If you do not actually and absolutely need it, don't buy it then; wait until you are comfortable with the expenditure (what you get for the same money will be even better by then ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dema
FPSs are better on a game console (IMHO.)
This is wrong.
Proof: Game consoles have no mouse.
q.e.d.
Bye
Thanee
P.S. I actually saw Far Cry II on the PS3 last week... completely unplayable compared to the PC, IMHO. Maybe it's a matter of getting used to it, though.
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
I have a IT friend who downloaded the beta trial of Windows 7, and he liked it because Microsoft finally figured out that not everyone will use everything that is standard in a typical OS download, so more of the items are optional (like it's own version of Movie Maker), so the OS footprint size is a bit smaller than in Vista.
If you absolutely need a new computer now, get the Vista since all of the bugs in it have been worked out. Normally, I'd wait until the SP1 is out with a new version of Windows, but if the beta is still as good as my friend is raving it out to be six months down the road, I'd might buy 7 as soon as it's fully operational.
Mouse touch pads have their uses - and their place. But for a lot of use, especially when using it as a desktop at home, you will prefer the convenience of a real mouse.
Get yourself a bluetooth mouse intended to be small and portable for use with laptops. Get a separate battery charger for recharging your triple As if you don't have one already, as there are no portable mice with a recharging dock - and they otherwise eat batteries.
I use a MS Bluetooth mouse which seems really tiny until you get used to it. After a few hours, it rocks quite nicely - thank-you-very-much.
If you do not have - and cannot get Bluetooth built in to the above, whatever wireless mouse you use, you will prefer one without a large dongle if you can manage it (large dongles get in the way).
Adding a tiny bluetooth dongle (they don't stick out like a standard usb dongle does) if your build does not have Bluetooth internally will do nicely.
You can pick up the Bluetooth dongles in a PC shop for like, $10. They stick out of a USB port about...5-7mm or so. They mount more or less flush and you don't need to remove them during transport for fear of damaging it.
MS Bluetooth mouse is about $40-50.
Please understand the 9200 is NOT a fast 3d card. I would not buy this machine if games were its purpose - but that does not seem to be your stated goal, so, fair enough.
Otherwise, for the apps stated, you should be good to go.
__________________ .Robert
roXidy Games Inc.
Last edited by Steel_Wind; 20th January 2009 at 03:50 AM..
I purchased the machine> HP ended up getting annoyed with me putting things in and out of the shopping cart and e-mailed me a bonus 5% off. Strange but Circuity City did that too one time.
I will see if I end up keeping it as I have a nasty habit of returning things. It will not be a game PC. For that I would just build a new desk top.
Thanee, sorry about the FPS comment. I do agree that having a mouse has it's plus side.
Thanks for all the input as always.
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...as there are no portable mice with a recharging dock - and they otherwise eat batteries.
Dunno, I have the Logitech Nano for my Notebook and even with plenty use, the first batteries lasted a whole year.
Quote:
If you do not have - and cannot get Bluetooth built in to the above, whatever wireless mouse you use, you will prefer one without a large dongle if you can manage it (large dongles get in the way).
Yeah, the Nano also has one of those really tiny USB thingies, that can easily be left in the slot during transport (it's designed for that purpose specifically).
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
Dunno, I have the Logitech Nano for my Notebook and even with plenty use, the first batteries lasted a whole year.
Yeah, the Nano also has one of those really tiny USB thingies, that can easily be left in the slot during transport (it's designed for that purpose specifically).
Helluva lot more effiecient than my MS Bluetooth then. I use it daily - probably for 8 hours or so.
Batteries are done in about 10 days. I suppose I could turn it off when not in use and probably double that but,....meh.
To this day, there is practically no software for 64-bit available. The only actual advantage is the > 4 GB of address space. That hardly outweighs the potential driver issues. Not yet.
I know where your coming from but I would still disagree mainly because I think that statement is a bit out of date. A lot of software is 32 bit but theres plenty of 64 bit stuff if you do certain things. For example if you make maps then you can get Gimp in 64bit, all the 3D tools including Blender come in 64bit flavors. My ViewingDale has been for about 2 years now. Fractal Terrains + Wilbur are also 64 bit. The other big mapping apps are too like GlobalMapper, Worldwachine, Terragen etc are too. There's a lot of tools now in 64 bit like imagemagick, and all the sys internals stuff which was probably the first to get a port. And then the OS is all 64 bit of course so that IE, image viewer and so on.
If you use a lot of open source apps then your sorted because linux variants have been 64 bit for way longer than windows so all their stuff is in 64 bit.
I think that the high end stuff is all 64 bit and the low end stuff hasn't moved that way yet. Also part of the reason for going 64 bit on the high end is to do with the CPU running native 64 bit instructions. Apart from the increased memory bandwidth from using 64 bit instructions, all intel chips run 32 bit stuff in emulation mode which is natively slower. And you can get to use the SSE type instructions which are guaranteed to be there whereas in 32 bit CPUs they are optional so nobody compiles them in for compatibility reasons. Its a similar argument for multi core too. Most low end apps are single threaded so dont take any advantage from multi core. But all high end stuff will use all the cores that you have. Right now its not like you will be left out in the cold with a 32 bit CPU but the world is changing over slowly.
I run XP x64 and I haven't found a 32 bit which didn't run on it and I get to use the 64 bit capability from the apps too. I have also not had any driver issues for all my modern hardware - its only old legacy stuff that causes a problem. The only thing that you cant run on 64 bit where you can on a 32 bit OS is 16 bit apps. 64 bit OS has no 16 bit compatibility mode any more. I cant think of a single 16 bit only app tho.
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