[Saga] Star Wars: Rebels with Style OOC

[FreeXenon]

With a total of -4 to PB/S ranges I am considering it.
Hmmmmm....

Does my last suggestion work for you: extend short range to encompass PB, then the -2 range penalty + -2 to PB and short range for a total of -4?

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Originally Posted by Shalimar

AMG, is this about right?

Sorosub Nightstalker (Ltd. Sniper Rifle)
Cost: 4000 Damage: 3d8+2 RoF: S
Weight: 4.5kg Type: Energy Availability Military

Range: PB (0): 0-30 Short (-2): 31-60 Med (-5): 61-150 Long (-10): 150-300 Extreme Range (-15): 301-450


Special:
-Extreme Range: that goes from: 301-450 sq at -15 penalty, however the additional range comes at a cost, the rifle gets only 25 shots per power pack, half of what a normal rifle gets
-Low-light Targeting scope: A standard Low-light Targeting scope, . The Scope may be removed to treat the rifle as a standard blaster rifle. Adding/Removing the scope requires 10 minutes and a DC 10 mechanics check
-Balanced for Range: The rifle is specially balanced for long range granting a +1 Bonus to attack at Medium, Long, and Extreme Range. The balancing and targetting scope also Applies a -5 to hit at Point Blank and Short Range

To Breakdown what you get:
1,000 cr (Standard Blaster Rifle)
1,000 cr (Low light Scope)
2,000 cr (+2 Damage customization)
-5 to hit at Point Blank & Short Range/+1 to hit at Medium-Extreme Range
Extreme Range/ 25 Shots per Power Pack

there is a drawback to every benifit that isn't paid for outright meaning its balanced to the standard guns. Its not clearly better or worse than anything else, just different. Carrying a Heavy Blaster pistol as a side-arm even negates the major downside of the weapon.

I think this is probably the best version, overall. To make more sense, the only thing I'd change would be that it takes 10 minutes to change not JUST the scope, but an extension on the barrel/etc. That would make more sense for the time required and why it can convert into a standard rifle.

The most important thing about it, I think, is exactly what it encourages. That is to use the weapon to its strength, range. Its designed for a sniper, meant to take advantage of unaware targets from distances much farther than normal combat. With the penalties as they are, it means to use it well you NEED that range, so that kind of thing can be sought out. If you DO get forced into combat where it isn't ideal, then it encourages carrying a blaster pistol of some kind.

All of that together just seems to exemplify the sniper type character.

[FreeXenon]

So, at rifle's short range which would encompass PB/S/M I would suffer a total of -7 to hit?
A total of -4 isn't enough?

As it stands for my character's level from PB to long range I have a +3 to hit for all ranges.

I had the damage set at 3d8+4 should I reduce that to +2.

To make more sense, the only thing I'd change would be that it takes 10 minutes to change not JUST the scope, but an extension on the barrel/etc. That would make more sense for the time required and why it can convert into a standard rifle.

This I can understand.

[drothgery]

Originally Posted by Ankh-Morpork Guard

All of that together just seems to exemplify the sniper type character.

Eh. The thing is that an extreme-range sniper is really only an effective part of a party if it's entierely made up of other snipers (and possibly heavy weapons people). But no melee or pistol-based combatant is going to willingly start a fight at ranges over 40 squares (i.e. max short range for pistols), which means that a weapon that's pretty much useless at maximum rifle short range or less is effectively useless in a party setting.

[FreeXenon]

With a -5 penalty on top of the Range (for PB-M due to scope) penalties makes the rifle completely unusable in any normal SW game, unless I am specifically catered to.

A -4 balances for playability and realism. Right now, I have the same effective bonus to hit from PB all the way to Long Range. Not pretty, but doable If I have to.

This really makes me want to carry a side arm to have any chance to hit in a normal game combat situation, but If I need to, I can use my rifle.

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Here's the thing to consider about the weapon. Obviously, as levels go up that penalty becomes negligible. Beyond that, though, is something else I've looked into over and over for the last twenty odd minutes and can't confirm one way or another. So I'll put this out there and see if any of you guys can set this record straight before I try to dig deeper.

With that kind of range, its very unlikely your targets would be AWARE of you. In other words, its easy to catch opponents Flat-Footed and remove their Dex to Ref Def. Now, my question to this, would the remain through a fight? Say, all of the group is fighting up close EXCEPT our sniper. Would the sniper's shots, if stealth checks succeeded against perception, obviously, CONTINUE to be against a flat footed target even though the enemy would NOT be flat footed to the rest of the group?

My instinct in this one says 'yes', which would, in a sense, give the weapon a bit more of a bonus than it seems initially.

EDIT: Obviously this would require going out of the way to get to keep range while others in the group moved closer, but this could actually fit in fairly well with what I have worked out already. The hard part here is finding the right balance to make this weapon usable but not TOO much. I definitely think this is the closest its reached to that, though I'm a still obviously willing to keep tweaking it.

[FreeXenon]

If you follow D&D's rules Shoot and Hide at a -20. I will have to be very high level to pull that off. If we do play long enough so that I can get high enough to do that, then it would be good to be able to pull that off, since that is my specialty, right? That option is there in D&D as well.

Now most games that are played will not allow for this situation to come up. It will be a rare moment that I will be able to pull this off. Pretty much every game will be close quarters fighting, unless put us in a situation that allows otherwise.

[FreeXenon]

The book says -10 for sniping. It is a little easier than D&D.

[FreeXenon]

Move action to remain hidden at a -10 to hide check. I still have to aim to use the scope, which takes 2 free actions. At most I will be able to fire every other round

Round 1 Hide (Move) Aim (Free/Std)
Round 2 Fire (Std) Hide (Move)

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Originally Posted by FreeXenon

Now most games that are played will not allow for this situation to come up. It will be a rare moment that I will be able to pull this off. Pretty much every game will be close quarters fighting, unless put us in a situation that allows otherwise.

Lets just say the situation wouldn't be something that would have to be either rare or a special case. So don't concern yourself about that kind of thing.

And yeah, there's the -10 to Stealth for hiding again to snipe...its not as hard as in D&D at all, especially when you consider how trained skills work, and then factor in the range penalty to perception checks that'll be taken.

But my real question is whether you can fire again and your target would still be considered flat footed to your shots. Like I said, my instinct says yes, but I can't find anything to say one way or another on that. I think that could have a great effect on how useful the weapon is.

Still, I think the one thing left with the weapon that likely needs tweaking is the range increments and that kind of fun stuff. So, rather than propose a change myself, I'll ask what you think could be done with it to make this effective? Or at least, so you'd feel it was useful since that's the important part.

[FreeXenon]

As it stands, with a total of -4 for short range (PB/S/M). My bonus to hit is the same from PB all the way to Long and at most I can only fire every other round.

I am not sure what you are thinking as far as a range increment issue.
Are you thinking of rejiggering the ranges to some effect?

Move action to remain hidden at a -10 to hide check. I still have to aim to use the scope, which takes 2 free actions. At most I will be able to fire every other round

Round 1 Hide (Move) Aim (Free/Std)
Round 2 Fire (Std) Hide (Move)

[FreeXenon]

Perhaps a penalty to Hide after firing?

This kind of defeats the purpose of being a sniper, but it is a big gun.

Hmmmm... a painful -5 to hide the round following firing?

This will definitely have me looking for a flash suppressor.

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Originally Posted by FreeXenon

As it stands, with a total of -4 for short range (PB/S/M). My bonus to hit is the same from PB all the way to Long and at most I can only fire every other round.

I am not sure what you are thinking as far as a range increment issue.
Are you thinking of rejiggering the ranges to some effect?

I think my wording is not lining up with my thinking.

So I guess the better thing to work out is what kind of penalty can we work out that makes the weapon effective at somewhat longer range, but at the same time, not overly effective in short range.

It's beginning to seem, to me, that the best balance of playability and balancing the weapon itself may just be with what you're suggesting. In fact, I have a proposal to make.

Lets use the weapon as posted above but with the suggestion on the penalties you've mentioned here. We'll see how it works in this initial Prologue and then, once its over with, decide if it needs to be tweaked at all beyond that. Considering this initial adventure will be short, if it is over/under powered it won't effect much for long...but at the same time we'll give it some actual playtest which is just plain better at judging things by than going back and forth on numbers.

How's that sound?

Move action to remain hidden at a -10 to hide check. I still have to aim to use the scope, which takes 2 free actions. At most I will be able to fire every other round

Round 1 Hide (Move) Aim (Free/Std)
Round 2 Fire (Std) Hide (Move)

TECHNICALLY, you don't have to aim every round.

...technically...

Course, its obviously in your benefit to, but you don't HAVE to.

[FreeXenon]

That is fair enough. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
You have the patience of a Saint.

Sorosub Nightstalker (Ltd. Sniper Rifle, 4000)
Damage: 3d8+4 RoF: S Type: Energy
Weight: 4.5kg Availability: Military

Range: Std + Extreme Long Range (-15): 301-450


Special:

Custom Rifle: This rifle counts as having been 'modified'.

Low-light Targeting scope and Barrel Extension:
A standard Low-light Targeting scope is attached.
The Scope and Barrel may be removed to treat the rifle as a standard blaster rifle.
Adding/Removing the scope and barrel extension requires 10 minutes/ each and
a DC 15 mechanics check

Long Range Accuracy: At Medium and longer you gain a +1 bonus to hit.
Point Blank and Short Range are merged into Short Range.
At Short Range you gain a -2 Penalty to hit.

Extreme Long Range: that goes from: 301-450 sq at -15 penalty.

High Energy Rounds: Each Power Pack must be changed after 25 shots.
Each Shot does 3d8+4 damage.
Until the end of the next round following firing you suffer a -5 to hide attempts from your current location.

[FreeXenon]

Hide Penalty wording: Until the end of the next round following firing you suffer a -5 to hide attempts from your current location.

This gives some encouragement to move and shoot.

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Originally Posted by FreeXenon

Perhaps a penalty to Hide after firing?

This kind of defeats the purpose of being a sniper, but it is a big gun.

Hmmmm... a painful -5 to hide the round following firing?

This will definitely have me looking for a flash suppressor.

Two things here.

First, there's already a penalty for re-hiding. That's the -10. It doesn't require moving, rather it takes a move action to do. So that's already handled in the rules. No reason to add in another -5 based on the gun unless my brain has died and you're saying something else.

And second, sadly there's no such thing as a flash suppressor for blasters. There's no such things a flash for them, either. Unless you've got a slugthrower, you're shooting blaster bolts and those can't really be suppressed.

[FreeXenon]

Gotcha.

Alrighty then.

[Wintergypsy]

Thanks for the reply on my character build AMG! No problem considering the armor, and (if that's okay with you, i'll let Ferroushh be an Ubese who can breath atmosphere, but i'd pass him off as constantly wearing his helmet, because of the signs of the Imperial torture.)

I'll be posting an updated profile soon (tomorrow or today) and maybe i'll try to make it a little more deviating from the others (as for diversity and all )

[Drowned Hero]

Originally Posted by Ankh-Morpork Guard

Technically not late, actually. Kind of leaving this open a bit longer for recruiting for reasons beyond my own knowledge. Just because, I guess.

Basic concept of a Bounty Hunter type in the group seems good. Only two things about it that might be a problem, both of which are essentially the same side of a coin. The first being that the Rebels aren't exactly the best group for Bounty Hunters, mainly due to being on the whole Prey end rather than Predator. Obviously, that one can be worked around, but the way the group is coming together with what we've got already, I'm a bit unsure a Bounty Hunter type would work well, personality wise, within the group dynamic.

Guess what it comes down to is a definite maybe on the concept. It could work, but I'm not too terribly keen on it, if that means anything. Still, the idea of a tracker(specifically of people) among the group isn't one that would be bad soooo....

Ok, im gonna give myself today and tomorrow to think on a bountyhounter that migh work for your ideas, or come up with another class or tweak of the BH.

-DH

[drothgery]

I guess I'm not seeing the advantage of the customized rifle you're working on over a standard-issue sporting blaster rifle with a standard-issue low-light scope, modified by a tech specialist to do extra damage. It'll do slightly less damage, and won't have an extreme range category, but in every other respect -- including accuracy at long and medium range -- it's a better weapon.

Sporting blaster rifle: 800 credits
Enhanced low-light targeting scope: 1000 credits
Extra damage modification: 2000 credits (market price)
Total cost: 3800 credits

What does that get you? Well, a single-shot only rifle that only does 3d6+2 damage doesn't seem all that great to begin with. But it's an accurate weapon, so it doesn't take penalties at short range. And the targeting scope means you treat all range categories as one lower, so you don't take penalties at medium range. And if, as is not unusual for a sniper, you take the far shot feat on top of that, then all ranges are treated as a category lower a second time. So now you're taking no penalties at long range.

For less money, with a weapon that's effective at point blank and short range. And for another 400 credits, the sniper rifle cut from the core rulebook does more damage, and gets fewer shots per power pack, but is otherwise identical, so you could use that as the base weapon instead...

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread...t=sniper+rifle
Blaster rifle, sniper
Cost 1,200 credits (military)
Damage 3d8
Size Large
Weight 5.5 kg
Qualities accurate, no autofire/stun settings, 50 shots/power pack.

One of these guys, modified and equipped with a scope as per above, would be 200 credits more than the weapon you're putting together. And would do two points less damage. But again, in every other respect it's better, including long-range accuracy.