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Anyone up for an online Amber Diceless RPG based on the books by Roger Zelazny (you don't have to know the setting or have the rules. Just bring enthusiasm)?
Fair warning, I love the idea of Amber, just not the main characters. PCs would not likely interact with the main characters in the stories.
If I get two interested posters by this time next week, I will write more. Otherwise, I will take the hint...
Given the fact that you don't like the main characters, how do you mean to organize the campaign? Will it revolve around the events in the books, or you are thinking about something else? Almost everything in the books relates to the main characters, so it may be hard to completely avoid them. Perhaps start in the Courts of Chaos? They were basically unexplored until the 6th book.
At what point of the story you want to place it? Before or after the end of the first pentalogy?
Thanks to all who responded. Let me answer your questions as best as I can...
I believe that the Amber Diceless system and the setting of Amber are very well suited to a PbP setting. Most pen-and-paper games can be adapted to posting but Amber DRPG is particularly easy to do so. The rules are simple, based on interpersonal bidding, not dice. And when creating universes at will is one of a character's minor powers, game balance can't really be abused...
Let me praise the late Mr. Zelazny, his characters are well-written and perfect for the story he was trying to tell. But for my purposes, here are the problems I have with Royal Family of Amber.
The characters are ruthless opportunists at best, sadistic psychopaths at worst. I prefer to GM people trying to be heroes, even flawed heroes.
With literally every imaginable universe at their beck and call, the entire family fights for a merely political prize, the Crown of Amber.
The characters are rather similar and terribly WASP. Oberon seemed to have a pretty narrow view of what his family should be like and the kids haven't fallen from the tree.
I realize that these sentences have probably alienated true Amber fans. This is one reason why I am not promoting the game at a purely Amber-related forum or message board. But I want to be honest with you. Purely canon Amber games are available for those who want them (and I mean that in the best possible way).
So, what kind of fake jewel am I offering, if not real Amber?
First, when the game starts with the characters being godlike immortals, there is nowhere to go but down. So I want the game to start as Nine Princes of Amber did, the protagonists believing that they are human, in a perfectly ordinary world, slowly learning how 'shadowy' that understanding is.
Secondly, I want the characters to at least feel young. We change more in the first decades of our lives than in the later decades. And I imagine immortals stay pretty consistent over the centuries.
Third, I want to start the game with a strong family bond. In the end, the only real threat to the characters is each other. So let's give the characters something to lose.
My basic pitch is this,
This characters start out as a collection of orphaned siblings. They have no particular reason to believe that they are special at game start. The world they start out in is probably here and now, Shadow Earth, but whatever shadow they are in, it is dull and humdrum. They are raised by caring foster parents who take the place of the parents the kids barely remember.
Powerful magics have made the characters seem as normal, perhaps even boring, adolescents. This magical masking hides the children from pursuers, but necessarily prevents the children from knowing their true selves.
Of course, as in these kinds of stories, something goes terribly wrong and the kids are forced to realize their destiny early...
Think of Luke Skywalker just before his family buys those two beat-up droids on Tattooine. There's no reason to think he is anything special at the start of the movie.
Doctor Who fans may be reminded of the episode 'Human Nature' where the Doctor took on a human identity so convincing even he believed it so as to escape powerful enemies.
Who are the children's parents? Who is hiding them? Who is pursuing them? What disaster made this all necessary? The good news is that those answers can be tailor-made to the characters and the game. Let any probable players tell me what period of the books and what parents they would like for their characters. The important thing is that the game starts out with the kids thinking that they are normal in a perfectly mundane setting...
That's enough for now. If anything I have written is a deal-breaker, I understand...
And I'm glad to see you haven't given up on running this here on ENWorld. I'm up for this, although I will have to think carefully about the character I will play. Will we be making our characters' unknown, secret background or will you? What is the age range of the PCs? When will this occur in the Amber series?
__________________ My Involvement:
Spoiler:
Player of Doral Kinsman the Beguiler in The Game of Kings(Campaign fell off the map) OOC//Rogue's Gallery//IC
Do you also want the characters to be more of the cooperative kind, working together against a common goal?
That would certainly be more up my ally than the setting-implied Amber-cutthroating.
Also, would you do the Attribute auction? When we played Amber, quite some time ago, we usually skipped that and everyone just picked Attributes (without knowing what the other characters had, of course) and the Ranks were then set afterwards, just going from highest to lowest. Also when leveling up you could simply improve the Attributes point by point. It's a bit easier to handle that way, too, which might be useful for PbP. But the biggest advantage for PbP is, that new characters can be brought in, easily, without screwing up the whole auction result.
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam E. Gary Gygax (* 27th July, 1938 4th March, 2008).
Right now, I don't quite have the time to give as lengthy and polished reply as I would like but I want to y'all's questions sooner rather than later.
You may make your character's background as long as it won't work against the game (and trust me, I am hard pressed to think of a character that wouldn't work) OR I will come up with a background for your character, whatever YOU want. You can even be one of the characters in the Amber series (we will assume there is a very good reason why such a powerful being has been reduced to an ordinary teen).
Don't forget, there are infinite variations of the Amber family themselves throughout Shadow. Even Corwin can't be sure if he is fighting for the One True World, or just the One True World he knows of. So we don't have to stick to established continuity. And characters can be effectively duplicated, slightly different versions from slightly different shadows (different brands of Brand, for example).
Also, if every possibility happens in Shadow, then every story or character you have read about has happened somewhere in Shadow, you may be able to bring your favorite character from ANY story into the game.
In short, just suggest a background, 99% will work. The only real caveat is that your character is somewhat more than a self-centered would-be tyrant (this includes the Princes of Amber, but your prince may have had a moral awakening. Besides, given Eternity, even selfishness or mere power would get old after a long while).
At game start, most of the people around your character (including your character) will think the PC to be somewhere around the ages of 11-17, the characters true age (chronological, apparent and mental) is up to the player.
Given that different shadows have different timeflows and that these timeflows can be set (relative to Amber) by powerful enough beings, I can easily set the game to whatever period of the books the players want.
More specifics about the game will depend on the particular mix of player preferences. For example, if every player wants to be the descendant of a particular Prince (do Amber Princesses have children?), that will be a different game than if the players want to be an Amber breeding experiment from the Courts of Chaos.
Here are (as I see them) the two basic approaches to the game, with near-infinite variations between the two...
About a generation (subjective time) before the game starts...
A war for the Pattern is fought between two powerful forces (Law and Chaos?). One side wins, but not decisively. The losing side is able to save some of the children and warriors of their side to safety. As the exiles are being tracked not just physically, but mentally, spiritually and magically, it is necessary to disguise the rebels as children, physically and mentally, even to themselves. A group of powerful guardians is caring for them but their pursuers are more powerful and discover them early...
APPROACH ONE: The rebels are being hidden by what is left of their family retainers. There is no question of their loyalty to the kid's initial cause.
APPROACH TWO: The kidnapped kids are being raised by their enemies who hope to raise them as powerful warriors for their side and eventual comeback.
Whatever the true motives of the kid's guardians, it is necessary to them that the kids be raised in a happy environment with a need to right 'moral wrongs.' So the game will start with what seems a truly loving family. This will add drama later when the character's realize their true selves and learn they are the children of mortal enemies, or the mortal enemies themselves.
I mean, Corwin and Eric couldn't have hated each other from their cribs. And their mutual hatred becomes more poignant if they once loved each other.
As far as bidding, here is my provisional idea...
All characters start as HUMAN in all stats, with no powers bought or points bid. As the game progresses, the character may bid to their full 100 points, freely at times, restricted at others. This is the game effect of the children slowly realizing themselves to be demigods. Your character's true self may have been a 500 point uberhero but this game deals with the short span of their eternal life where they remember who they are or once were...
So, let's say that Brother A and Sister B have learned that they are mortal enemies and are fighting for power. Both can bid for their Warfare stats, but once those points are spent, they are committed to that stat. So, both siblings have to decide how important is this fight and the Warfare stat to the rest of the game. So the player with the highest Strength in the early phases of the game may not be the highest at the end of the game if another player really wants it more.
I'll stop here for now, let me know what you think. Nothing is cast in stone and I'm not married to anything...
Hmm, well, I understand your objections to the principal characters, and I can find some common ground. But then, I think that there are some exceptions (corwin and merlin are not exactly savage and ruthless tyrants, as well as others).
I will have to think about the character. One problem that I can see with your approach to the backstory is that the players will have to decide in advance whether all of them are part of Chaos or Law (it was Logros and the Design, wasn't it?)
Actually, the players don't have to be on the same side. The forces capable of reducing the such powerful beings to mundane children (at least temporarily) are hoping the change in ID might lead to a change in loyalties.
Once you reduce your enemy to an infant, is it really easy to hate that baby? It could be that allies and captured enemies were given the same treatment.
And (hint, hint) it may be that your guardians grew to care about their charges, even if that wasn't their initial orders...
Still, I yield to superior knowledge of things Amber. It has been awhile since I have read the books. It is true that Corwin and Merlin were amongst the best of the bunch. I suppose I am being a little bit unfair to them...
I guess I am being a little overcautious. The sheer godlike power of the Amber family is munchkin-bait and power-hungry players is something I want to avoid (and so far seem to have, glad to say)...
I have a few extra moments so let me ask, what mundane shadow do you want your characters to think that they are from?
The requirements are...
The world must be relatively safe, perhaps even dull so that the contrast of discovering the more exciting shadows, especially the canon shadows, will be more wonderous.
The family should have some knowledge of the medieval/celtic/norse/Shakespearean flavorings that Zelazny used as influences, even if that is not the dominant culture of the shadow that they call home. This will help explain why the characters will feel more at home in Amber (if they do, they might not).
The various links to other shadows contained within the family homestead must have an 'mundane' explanation as to keep cover. This implies some kind of fantastic museum/library/bookstore location near home.
The orphans will be quite numerous, home-schooled, and generally kept from feeling too much a part of the mundane world around them (they have a greater destiny, as far as their guardians are concerned, which will be realized earlier than anyone expects). In our modern society, this implies something other than average, middle-class society. The orphans can be aristocracy (which can afford to raise a family as they see fit), an alternative community (which is too different to assimilate with the neighbors) or poor (who simply can't afford to send the kids to school).
As different levels of magic and technology work in different shadows, there is no ONE shadow that would be perfect training grounds for the orphans, so think what sensibilities you wish the orphans to have.
Possible Shadows:
Shadow Earths: The world we know. It is familiar and the Amber Chronicles started out the same way...
Now, near a major city.
1970, New York state, the exact same way Nine Princes of Amber started.
Victorian Britain, Victorian aristocracy of the British Empire would have similar sensibilities to the Princes of Amber. Also, this evokes the Wonderland riffs in the books.
Swashbuckling France, similar to New Avalon and the musketeer feel of Amber.
Elizabethan Britain, There are many Shakespearean references in Zelazny. Such characters would feel at home in Amber.
Beowulf-era Britain: the norse and celtic mythologies would work well for these folks.
Other shadows:
Tiers, a world based on Phillip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers, by Zelazny's unashamed admission, the main inspiration for the Chronicles of Amber.
Ariel, an Elizabethan world where local superstitions and myth are real, especially anything Shakespeare dreamed up. Think 7th Sea.
Tintagel, A world where the Arthurian myths are real, along with the other legends from the Age of Chivalry. Think Pendragon
Albion, a steampunk world where Wonderland would seem at home. Think Castle Falkenstein/Space: 1889
Arcadia, Mythic pre-revolution France, think the mood of Brotherhood of the Wolf.
These are only ideas and musings. I heartily encourage any other suggestions and look forward to feedback...
If I were to give my two cents, I would vote for the real world, or for 1970, with a particular characteristic: there is no fantasy and no sci-fi genre (yes, no tolkien, asimov, arthur clark, and obviously no zelazny). This way, the characters are unaccustomed to such things as parallel worlds and magic and so on, if not at a basic level described by the fairy tales and arthurian tradition. Because we have to admit that if one of us in real life were to be transported in a fantasy world, after the moment of initial shock, he would start analyzing the setting (high/dark fantasy), the magic system and so on...if he had read enough books, he would be hardly surpised by anything. This requirement also makes the world more dull, because there is no escape in fantasy.
So, modern world, with no fantasy/sci-fi for me. Probably a wealthy/aristocratic family which raises the children home, because they feel that the grade school / high school is lacking. I would see the oldest children (those around 17) preparing to take the high school equivalence test, and applying for the elite universities.
Also, perhaps the family instructors are extremely good, but they are very pragmatical: they teach, but they don't inspire. The world, according to them, is rational, and has to be studied like a scientific subject. No inspiration, no great joy, no nothing. Pretty dull childhood.
These are, of course, just ideas. I will adapt to any other suggestion.
Wow, in 2 years I don't think I've seen an amber game get suggested here at ENworld. I played the Amber drpg over almost 2 years, (a decade ago, going from standard starting characters to 800+ point power houses that destroyed both the pattern and the logrus in the end ;p). While I don't have any of the books, I did read them around the time I played last. A cooperative game would be a completely diffent experience that I'd be interested in trying out.
What kind of timeframe were you thinking about for running this? Because while it may be a little interesting to start out as "normals" I'd think it would get dull very quickly, unless the characters' "awakening" was going to happen very early in the game, say within the first 200 posts.
That said I have a concept for one of the older kids, or maybe even one of the younger guardians. A conscript type character that isn't attached to either the pattern or logrus, but is (or will be) a shapeshifting conjurer. He has been either regressed with the others, or is simply hiding among them as another child devoted to defending them.
I think the swashbulcking era would be very cool to place the setting in, where every word a person says matters and a quick tongue or slow mind can get you killed faster than the plague can find you. People today think their words have no weight, and playing in an era where they do could force people to think about what they are going to say.
__________________ You know - smiling makes my face ache. - Dr. Frank N. Fuhrter, Rocky Horror Picture Show
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MyGames
Voidrazor's Eschaton - Serraphina DeLecourt lvl 21 OOCRGIC
Scotley's ToH - Ballista lvl 9 IC
HellrazorIII's Death of the Dragons - Grabhar Goldenwing lvl 5 (Gestalt) RGIC
Reville's Vampires of Waterdeep - Rangta Shandalla lvl 3 OOC
For a setting, I like the idea of the player characters starting out in a modern city and era, then somehow getting into a mideval technology-based shadow and finding their talents/powers.
__________________ My Involvement:
Spoiler:
Player of Doral Kinsman the Beguiler in The Game of Kings(Campaign fell off the map) OOC//Rogue's Gallery//IC
Thanks for the well thought-out replies. Let me use what time I have tonight to explain a little more.
I have run this game once before, long ago on a board far, far away. Which started out the characters on a world very much like our own and they ended up in a very cool swashbuckling shadow much like Amber so I have a good feeling this time around. I like what I have heard of character ideas so far.
Vertexx, if there hasn't been an Amber game here for a couple of years, then I can say that I will offer the best damn Amber game this board has seen for years (by default)! Of course, the means I will offer the worst Amber game the board has seen in years (bloody logic and semantics).
As it turns out, the characters do not necessarily have to start out on the same shadow. For 'insurance' the orphans may have spread out amongst several shadows. But within the first week of posting, I hope to have a way for the shadows to connect and for the scattered family to meet each other. This one event should alone make the characters realize that there is more to the Amberverse and themselves then they ever imagined. If not, one of their pursuers finding them almost immediately afterwards will be a pretty good clue. So the game will start with the discovery and awakening of the characters. The characters will grow evenly throughout the game.
Let me expand upon the premise of the story. These are generalities, the actual character conceptions will dictate the final form of the details.
Here are the major groups that make up the game.
The Victors: Whoever they are, they won a decisive war about a generation ago. They are the vastly stronger power in the game. Their only limitations is that they haven't completely hunted down all of the Rebels and (if they are the kind of pure Evil types fantasy novels are so fond of, have not YET been able to destroy or corrupt Everything That Is, but they are almost there).
The Rebels: The losers in the great war above, about the only thing that can be said for them is that they haven't ALL been hunted down and neutralized yet. They lurk in silent, isolated shadows and brood about claiming (or re-claiming) power.
The Orphans: The 'humanized' PCs and their siblings. The focus of this game.
The Watchers: The guards or guardians of the Oprhans, depending on circumstances.
The Seneschals: The followers and allies that maintained the Homeshadows. The Seneschals were the surprised hosts of both the Orphans and the Watchers when those two groups were suddenly dumped in thier laps and the Homeshadows were obscured and hidden from those trying to find them.
The Homeshadows: These are the shadows where the game begins, either one shadow or a small group (and in the Amberverse, any finite group of shadows is a small group). The Homeshadows were secret bases and hideouts during the recent war. As far as the Seneschals and Watchers know, the location of the Homeshadows and/or the fact that the Orphans are hidden there is still unknown to the enemy.
Up to very recently, that was true. Which will lead to the start of the game...
The above game factors are the plot essentials as I see them. Here are some possible ways the game could use them, depending on player character choices.
Option One: Sympathetic Victors; the Orphans are either 'humanized' captured Rebels or the children of as-yet-uncaptured Rebels. The Victors are keeping them isolated and hidden for the following reasons...
The Victors are too moral to simply kill the defeated and or innocent.
The Victors are keeping the Orphans alive as humanized shields and hostages to discourage remaining Rebels from what they would consider terrorist acts of revenge.
The Victors are using the Orphans as bait.
The Victors honestly believe that the Orphans can be raised (or re-raised) as 'Victors', rehabilitiated and productive scions in the new Victorious Order.
The Victors are manipulating the Orphans into becoming trusting tools of the Victors to help lure other Rebels into a trap.
Any or all of the above...
In this option, the Orphans are treated well and loved (at least it seems that way). The Victors don't want the Orphans to realize their full potential (at least not until centuries of guidance and training). Above all, the Orphans would be discouraged from learning any kind of military or political skills, instead encouraged to focus on the Humanities and Arts.
However, the Rebels are small in number but individually very powerful. They will discover the Orphans and try and abduct/rescue them in a lighting raid...
Option Two: Sympathetic Rebels: The Orphans are Rebel children or 'humanized' Rebel Princes (and Princesses) or even captured Victors, reduced to a helpless and trusting adolescent mortality. The Orphans are necessarily kept as unknowing children to keep from the powerful magicks that would reveal an Amber-sized soul to the hunting Victors. The Rebels are keeping the Orphans in this manner so as to keep them alive and able to train for the eventual coup/liberation. As the weaker army, the Rebels can't afford to lose even one child so all of the kids, whatever their true origin, will become child warriors in the Righteous Rebellion.
In this case, the Rebels will teach the kids martial and political skills. This training will barely be begun before at least one homeshadow is discovered by the Victors' forces, forcing those Rebels and Orphans who survive the initial attack to flee across Shadow, ill-prepared, confused and chased.
Between these two options, there are infinite shades of gray. In history, very few armies have been completely wrong or right, savior or tyrant. Most wars are simply to some degree my tribe versus your tribe. Let me know what you think.
Whatever is decided above, here's a little more detail on a local level.
The Homeshadows were originally, first and foremost, minor hidden bases and strongholds. They were spartan, dull shadows, never meant to be the incubators of Amberish royalty. Due to as yet undetermined plot reasons, the Orphans and Watchers were suddenly relocated to the Homeshadows without enough planning or preparation to make the best choice or use of the Homeshadows. Their saving grace is that they are so backwards and far-flung the chances of them being located or even accidentally discovered are considered remote.
The Seneschals were the local staff and army of the Homeshadows, either native converted to the 'cause' or the cause turned 'native.' No Seneschals expected to be saddled with super children and their super nannies. And the Homeshadows were made even more remote so the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals have been stuck on the Homeshadows since their initial exodus to game start.
If the Victors run the Homeshadows, the Orphans are not considered important enough to warrant using a truly useful shadow or Watchers or Seneschals. The decision to keep the Orphans alive was not a popular one and even the supporters of the Orphan 'project' know it is best that the kids are seen and not heard.
If the Rebels run the Homeshadows, then the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals may be all that is left of the movement and the B-list Homeshadow may be all that is available to the revolutionaries.
What does all of this mean? It means that if the Watchers and Seneschals ultimately mean the Orphans ill, there may be something in the Homeshadows that might work in the trapped Orphans favor. The reason for two groups of allies is to allow the Orphans a decent chance at guides, no matter how grim their situation.
The Watchers could be callously using the children as weapons. In which case, the decent forthright warrior Seneschals might be the Orphans true allies. If the Orphans are prisoners, then the Watchers are family retainers and loyal servants pitted against the guarding Seneschal wardens...
All of these factors in play allow me easy customization to the group's wishes. As always, let me know what you think. I value feedback and like Shadow, all of this is subject to your interpretation...
Next up, I hope have a cameo from a character you know of an example of one way to make such a character....
