Leif's Keep on the Shadowfell [FULL] [OOC #1] - Page 18

Mowgli · 27th June 2009, 11:23 PM

Right, but Divine Challenge is one of those powers that specifically states that it Marks the opponent if it's successful.

I did a search (gotta love those searchable PDFs) and in every instance I found where a creature is described as being Marked it's within the description of a specific Power. I also read that a creature can only be affected by one Mark at a time - this doesn't necessarily mean that hitting an opponent doesn't Mark them, but it seems to argue against it ("I'm Marked by you . . . no wait, it's you . . . hang on a second, now it's you . . . oh, Jeez, who do I swing at?")

Lou · 27th June 2009, 11:31 PM

PHB 4e p. 76 is not a specific power, it's a Fighter class feature.

Combat Challenge
In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

Mowgli · 27th June 2009, 11:37 PM

So it seems that if you're a Fighter you can choose to Mark an opponent you successfully strike in combat, otherwise you have to hit with a Power that imposes that condition.

Mowgli · 27th June 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leif

(And, in that situation, Tarrk would grant to the skirmisher Combat Advantage, which would make him +2 to hit Tarrk.) <--THIS, however, is correct.

I think I'm missing something (all these different rule sets . . . 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder Beta . . . I'm so confused!). Where would the Combat Advantage come from here, if Tarrk isn't Flanked? I know Flanking grants it, but I can't see anything else that would.

(Incidentally, if he's Flanked both of his Flankers should get CA, regardless of which one he attacks).

Lou · 28th June 2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowgli

So it seems that if you're a Fighter you can choose to Mark an opponent you successfully strike in combat, otherwise you have to hit with a Power that imposes that condition.

That's not the way I read it. As a Fighter, as a class feature, you can mark an opponent until the end of your next turn even if you miss. There are Fighter, Paladin, etc. class powers that even allow marking more than one opponent at one time. The power description does not say that you have to hit any target for the mark to occur. Other powers say that the mark is part of the effect.

Mowgli · 28th June 2009, 12:19 AM

Sorry - I did recognize that Fighters can Mark opponents even if they miss; that part of my previous post was poorly expressed.

Lou · 28th June 2009, 12:35 AM

For 4e Combat Advantage, it looks like it must be determined at the time of the attack.... pp. 279-280

The following situations give an attacker combat advantage against a defender. When a defender is . . .
Balancing (page 180)
Blinded (page 277)
Climbing (page 182)
Dazed (page 277)
Flanked by the attacker (page 285)
Helpless (page 277)
Prone (melee attacks only) (page 277)
Restrained (page 277)
Running (page 291)
Squeezing (page 292)
Stunned (page 277)
Surprised (page 277)
Unable to see the attacker (page 281)
Unaware of you (page 188)

Unconscious (page 277)
Once per encounter, by Bluff (page 183)

(Interesting that being prone or restrained gives combat advantage and it's own bonus to the attacker. p. 279)

Are we confusing combat advantage with a power/ability? Kobold Skirmishers get a "Mob Attack" bonus of +1 for each kobold ~~minion~~ ally adjacent the target. They also get a bonus to damage if they have Combat Advantage 4e MM p. 167

Leif · 28th June 2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou

For 4e Combat Advantage, it looks like it must be determined at the time of the attack.... pp. 279-280

The following situations give an attacker combat advantage against a defender. When a defender is . . .
Balancing (page 180)
Blinded (page 277)
Climbing (page 182)
Dazed (page 277)
Flanked by the attacker (page 285)
Helpless (page 277)
Prone (melee attacks only) (page 277)
Restrained (page 277)
Running (page 291)
Squeezing (page 292)
Stunned (page 277)
Surprised (page 277)
Unable to see the attacker (page 281)
Unaware of you (page 188)

Unconscious (page 277)
Once per encounter, by Bluff (page 183)

(Interesting that being prone or restrained gives combat advantage and it's own bonus to the attacker. p. 279)

Are we confusing combat advantage with a power/ability? Kobold Skirmishers get a "Mob Attack" bonus of +1 for each kobold ~~minion~~ ally adjacent the target. They also get a bonus to damage if they have Combat Advantage 4e MM p. 167

Yeah, man, I thought I had a semi-handle on it this morning, but now, I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!

Leif · 28th June 2009, 02:42 AM

Look, I honestly don't really know how this crap works. Let's just keep on going with the combat, and I'll learn as I go. But I'm not going to hold it against you guys. You're in pretty good shape for this fight, anyway. I've just got to remember that 'Mob Attack' power for the kobolds this time!

Scotley · 28th June 2009, 06:07 AM

In addition to the the things you listed there are controller/leader powers that can give an ally combat advantage. The point of combat advantage is not only to get a bonus to hit, but as in the case of the Kobolds it allows you to use powers. Rogue sneak attack is of course the classic example.

Ozymandias79 · 2nd July 2009, 06:18 AM

OK, it took awhile but have read through it now(Ok, I skipped some parts) but am joining this thread now if it is OK.

Ozymandias79

Leif · 2nd July 2009, 02:35 PM

Yeah, Ozymandias79, welcome! I'll be working you in very soon, so keep watching. Please go ahead and get your pc into the rg, if you haven't already done so.

Leif · 2nd July 2009, 04:32 PM

Scotley, take a look at this thread (are your ears burning? we've (I've) been talking about you)
http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking...ouncement.html

In particular, this post: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4850568-post116.html

Leif · 8th July 2009, 03:58 AM

Stand by, Ozymandias79. It shouldn't be too awfully much longer now. I hope. (Famous last words....)

Almost ready to introduce: "A 'rangery-looking,' tall (5'7") elf with long brown hair and green eyes, wearing hide armor, carrying a huge bow almost as tall as he is."

Ozymandias79 Only

Lou · 21st July 2009, 01:22 AM

Now that EnWorld is back up....are we ready to move this combat forward?

Leif · 21st July 2009, 01:31 AM

That would probably be a good idea, wouldn't it? I'll have to see if I can do that here before long. (Feel free to harass me mercilessly until I do so. Well, maybe not MERCILESSLY, but....)