So we have Gala for Nature, Wendigo for Heal, Tregar for Endurance, and Dorn Aiding presumably the Heal. What are Henry and Gloombalde going to try?
(And don't forget to play these out in-game as well.)
Gloomblade will definitely do Endurance.
__________________ He knows the score... he gets the women... and he kills the bad guy. If you hire him to kill the bad guy... better make damn sure the bad guy isn't you! EN World Community Supporter
Currently running "In the Shadow of Giants" [OOC] | [IC] | [RG]
That sounds good. Gala is trained in perception, Dorn in Diplomacy, and two others have Stealth training. Henry aiding tregar seems a reasonable investment.
__________________ He knows the score... he gets the women... and he kills the bad guy. If you hire him to kill the bad guy... better make damn sure the bad guy isn't you! EN World Community Supporter
Currently running "In the Shadow of Giants" [OOC] | [IC] | [RG]
I'm thinking Dorn can aid on history for this (at +4)... but I don't think anyone is actually trained in history. So maybe our boy should lead on it and get at least one assist from someone (how many aids can we get, DEFCON?). We have natural candidates for Nature and Perception (Gala and Wendigo respectively).
__________________ stonegod -- LEB judge and spawn of Khyber since 2005 (Blog)
Only 1 can Aid, the other five have to make the rolls. And yes, I know this particular one has the least number of characters who are trained in one of the three stats. It was designed this way. They can't all be cakewalks.
And on that note, I really have to say... although I realize why WotC did the errata for the DC check table on page 42 of the DMG... I think they went too far in the opposite direction. The original chart had for 1st to 3rd level the DCs of 10 for Easy, 15 for Moderate, 20 for Hard, and you were supposed to add 5 to those when making skill checks. The theory being... a person trained in a skill that is based off of one of their main attributes would have usually a +8 to +12 skill modifier (average of +10). Thus to make the Easy checks you'd need a 5+, Mods were 10+ and Hards were 15+. This is pretty much how you'd want it.
However, once the books got released and people started trying to make these checks with non-trained skills whose attributes did not line up... they found that they were needing to make like 10+, 15+, 20+ on the rolls... a statistical improbability when you needed to make 6 or 8 successes before 3 failures.
Thus, they printed the errata that lowered the DCs to Easy 5, Mod 10, Hard 15, and (which is the biggest problem) they removed the +5 to these numbers you add for when its skill checks rather than ability checks! For a 1st to 3rd character to make skill checks, they now only needed a 5, 10 or 15. Now this is fine for those times when the characters doesn't have them trained and/or their ability score is low, because even Hard skill checks are still possible to make... but for the trained skills on high attributes, it's virtually impossible to fail rolls, even on theoretically Hard skill checks. They basically lowered all DCs by 10 points and made things way too easy.
Despite the note in the errata to ignore the subscript note on the DC chart, I think I am going to start adding in the +5 for skill checks in my own games. DCs of 10, 15 & 20 are good solid numbers that are workable/possible for both ends of the spectrum... the non-trained/unmatched attribute skills, and the trained/matched attribute skills (i.e +0 and +10).
Anyone else worked with these charts before? How did you feel about them both pre and post-errata?
Anyone else worked with these charts before? How did you feel about them both pre and post-errata?
The DCs are too low. Folks at WotC seem to agree w/ this (as seen on the podcasts and articles), though officially it seems they still use that base. The guidlines in the latest Skill Challenges pod cast says something like: Figure out who would need to succeed half the time on this check at that level and make the hard DC that.
I'm still experimenting w/ DCs in my game.
__________________ stonegod -- LEB judge and spawn of Khyber since 2005 (Blog)
I think revisiting the first three skill checks in this game tells us a lot. The first and third would still have succeeded, but we would have lost the horse. That's in a fairly strong party at the top of the range; at fourth level, it becomes a bit harder again.
In this game, we don't know the target numbers just the skills, which means we have to act like everything is at 15, regardless of the reality. That too raises the stakes, and is a very nice mechanic for an OL game, I think. The tension is there for us, even if from your perspective we are managing easily.
Well in this game matters are made even worse, inasmuch as that I gave everyone three skills to choose from. Thus, most of these checks have at least half the players able to find at least one of the skills that they have trained. So with the group needing to make 3 of 5... and 3 of those players have a skill that's up around the +10s... the odds in this particular skill challenge lean heavily in the group's favor, even if some of the skills have a DC of 15.
This particular check is the only one in the challenge where only two of the six of you are trained in a skill, which means this might be the only one you have an actual chance to fail. But even if you do... the subsequent checks will go back to having options like Athletics, Endurance, and Stealth... which means most of you will find yourselves trained.
I'm not going to change the DCs for this challenge... but I definitely know that if there are any subsequent challenges, I'm going to move the DCs to 10/15/20. Because even a fully trained/correctly attributed character should have a 50/50 chance to fail a Hard skill check, otherwise there's no point in doing them.
*EDIT* Although to be fair... most of your characters are all statted out to be really good at this style of skill challenge (outdoorsy, physically based). So I really can't complain, since I chose you all after all. But if by some chance you ever find yourselves in a social skill challenge... that's when it'll get interesting! Cause then Dorn will be all over it... but the rest of you would find yourselves potentially up the creek as it were.
(Hmm... where can I insert a social skill challenge? Heh heh!)
I think it makes sense that it's very difficult for an untrained person to make the Hard DC if they're not trained. If I haven't learned how to operate a wrecking ball, the probability of me knocking down a structure and not damaging adjacent objects is extremely low. Now if I'm a licensed operator with years of experience the situation changes and it's much more likely I'll succeed.... stupid example I know, but it's all I could think of...
Anyways, Tregar can try Nature, he's got a +5 mod so there's a chance
I figured that Henry might be better served to aid, Tregar's bonus is only +2 and I think Tregar's got a better shot at succeeding on the other checks then Henry.
Gala can take Nature at +12
Wendigo can take Perception at +10
Tregar's highest are Nature/Perception at +5 (and History at +2)
Dorn's highest is History at +4
Henry's highest are Nature/Perception at +2
Gloomblade's highest is History at +1
Is the plan for Tregar to make the History Aid so that Dorn has a better shot at making the 3rd check? And then hope that Henry or Gloomblade just luck out if one of the expected people end up missing?
Or would you rather have Henry make a Nature or Perception Aid to Tregar, thereby giving you two people (Tregar & Dorn) with slightly higher chances of making their checks?
The IC seemed to indicate Tregar Aiding Dorn with History, but I just want to confirm this is how you all want to do it.
Gloomblade will take a back seat on this one. If you need him to make a check in this round, good luck LOL
__________________ He knows the score... he gets the women... and he kills the bad guy. If you hire him to kill the bad guy... better make damn sure the bad guy isn't you! EN World Community Supporter
Currently running "In the Shadow of Giants" [OOC] | [IC] | [RG]
Gala can take Nature at +12
Wendigo can take Perception at +10
Tregar's highest are Nature/Perception at +5 (and History at +2)
Dorn's highest is History at +4
Henry's highest are Nature/Perception at +2
Gloomblade's highest is History at +1
Is the plan for Tregar to make the History Aid so that Dorn has a better shot at making the 3rd check? And then hope that Henry or Gloomblade just luck out if one of the expected people end up missing?
That appears to be the plan. Tregar could do Nature/Perception and Henry could aid him for a +7 Nature/Perception which would increase chances there, but hurt our history chances (which aren't great anyway). Gloomblade should default to history just as its his best, and, as Insight said, its not good for him for any check.
I'll let r1 decide his plans there.
__________________ stonegod -- LEB judge and spawn of Khyber since 2005 (Blog)
You'll probably have noticed already on the seperate thread, but I am on vacation from tomorrow, July 3rd through Sunday, July 12th.
Once you all decide which path you are going to take (tunnel or overland), feel free to rp the rest of the journey as you like. Any flavor stuff you write that you see/hear/remember about what you notice on your path, I'll try and incorporate at opportune moments in the game. When I get back, I will pick the story up with you arriving at your destination.
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