I believe I'll take the Absent Minded trait instead of Child of the Streets if that's okay. Seems appropriate for a budding scholar. As for reassigning my skill point from Gather Information, I'm instead considering taking a rank in Knowledge (Dungeoneering).
Both sound fine.
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I'm also toying with the idea of Taran having crafted his own leather barding (cut into the shape of overlapping scales) out of discarded scraps found in the Junktoss to supplement his own nonexistent natural armor. His Intelligence is sufficient to create leather armor by taking 10 on an untrained craft skill. I'd pay for the base materials out of his starting funds of course. It'd depend on a perceived need for protection; which I imagine Taran would have if he'd been introduced to the business end of a goblin's dogslicer once or twice. I'll likely aim to acquire masterwork studded leather or a mithral shirt eventually.
As long as you pay for the base materials out of his starting funds, leather barding isn't a problem.
2. Ability scores look incorrectly allocated. Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8). A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation. Let me know if I'm missing something here.
-- You are missing the +2 to one stat that all humans get in Pathfinder. I only paid for a Charisma of 16, then boosted it to 18 with that bonus. I will make that clearer on my final sheet.
Got it now, thanks for pointing that out. Am now satisified that everything adds up as it should.
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3. Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from? I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet. I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.
-- Humans in Pathfinder get a martial weapon proficiency as a racial trait. You should read the Race section. There are a lot of small, but noticible changes there.
K, now I'm seeing it. Too.much.new.data.
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Thanks for the comments! Hope I answered your concerns.
Are all our humans Varisian? If so it'd be good if everyone had Varisian as a language. I might be wrong, but I believe it's the default spoken language throughout Varisia.
I was just going over the Players Guide again, and that says humans of Varisian descent get Varisian as a bonus language. Does that mean it's just available to choose if you have the Int bonus, or that any Varisian starts with Common + Varisian + bonus languages from Int?
Makes sense. If Varisians don't know their own native language then who does?
The term "bonus language" was used in 3.X to refer to the selection of languages from which a character could pick the extra languages granted to him by virtue of a high Intelligence score. But, looking over the the Beta playtest rules, Pathfinder seems to have done away with it as a game term; probably because the word "bonus" was misleading.
So that'd mean that every PC except the dragon and the half-orc get it for free. Neat.
Hm. I have to do a bit of research to figure out if my dragon is supposed to automatically know common or not.
Edit: The D20 SRD states plainly: "All characters know how to speak Common." It's unclear whether that's intended to apply to all PCs regardless of race or simply those included in the SRD. The Pathfinder Beta rules don't include any such unilateral mention. The entry for dragons in the SRD, in turn, only grants them Draconic automatically. So, in conclusion, I still dunno.
A bonus language is known in addition to any languages gained any other way (by race, skill, class or intelligence).
For example, Druidic is a bonus language for druids. They get it no matter what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrus
Makes sense. If Varisians don't know their own native language then who does?
The term "bonus language" was used in 3.X to refer to the selection of languages from which a character could pick the extra languages granted to him by virtue of a high Intelligence score. But, looking over the the Beta playtest rules, Pathfinder seems to have done away with it as a game term; probably because the word "bonus" was misleading.
Looking at the elf racial section in the beta ruleset, I note the following with regard to racial bonus languages:
Quote:
Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and
Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose any
of the following: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc,
and Sylvan.
Looking at the cleric section in the beta ruleset, I note the following with regard to class bonus languages:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PF Beta
Bonus Languages: A cleric’s bonus language options
include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal (the languages of
good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil outsiders, respectively).
These choices are in addition to the bonus languages
available to the character because of her race.
As far as class-related bonus languages go, you're still selecting out of a list of possibilities according to your character's Int bonus. And it looks to me like it's the same as the 3.5 PHB for racial languages--each race is provided a list of bonus language options, from which a player may select one or more depending upon his character's Int bonus. I wouldn't infer, from looking at the beta ruleset, that bonus languages are automatically granted. Think of it this way--a character of Varisian blood may or may not have grown up knowing his roots, his culture, or his family's background. There's little basis for an automatic assumption that he knows Varisian simply because he was born of Varisian blood.
That said, it's dumb not to get what in this very specific case is a very specific subset of a language that makes a great deal of sense for a PC to possess. So, yes, if you're Chelish, Varisian, or Shoanti, you get the bonus language of your race/sub-race for free. If you so chose. I can certainly see cases where someone would decline a language. That decision, however, will remain yours as a player. Is this an across the board thing that will apply to all bonus languages for all classes and races? No way. I don't think the beta rules support that idea.
If you want to press me on this a bit more, shoot an e-mail my way. As always, you'll find me malleable if you make a good argument that I can buy into. wlburford@hotmail.com
I've vetted and posted responses to three of the six character sheets. I'll try to hit the next one tonight, and the last two tomorrow morning. Since I've already composed my opening post for the actual gameplay thread, immediately following my review of the last character sheet, I will officially open the game for play. Look for the game to begin mid- to late afternoon Thursday (tomorrow).
Any kinks remaining in character sheets will need to be satisfactorily worked out prior to the first use of stats (which usually but not always occurs during the first combat). If your sheet's not complete (and this includes a background for your character) by the time I need to call on you for something specific, I'll pass on your turn until your sheet is done. Most of you are waiting on me, rather than me waiting on you for stats, so this shouldn't be much of a problem for most of the group.
I honestly thought I read in the Player's Guide that Varisians got the Varisian language for free. Reading it again, I now can't find that...therefore I apologize for my assertion above that it's so. I'm not sure now where I got the idea, but it seems not to be the case.
I honestly thought I read in the Player's Guide that Varisians got the Varisian language for free. Reading it again, I now can't find that...therefore I apologize for my assertion above that it's so. I'm not sure now where I got the idea, but it seems not to be the case.
Sorry about that!
Actually, I'm pretty sure that I read something about Varisian and the Varisian race, too...but the last time I was really into reading up on all my Pathfinder was Fall 2007, so it's hard to remember what tidbits were in which book, and where.
I think it's also important to remember that we're dealing with a beta version of a ruleset that isn't yet published--there are bound to be inconsistencies in the beta that will (hopefully) see improvement by the time the official rulebook is released in August. Since we're dealing with so many supplements in this game, some of which we're bound to confuse in our minds with the 3.x PHB, this probably isn't the last rules discussion we see where someone states, "X is true. I saw it here," only to have someone else retort, "No, X is not true. Y is true. If you'll look in sub-section 19 of paragraph 8 of chapter 2 of Whidgamagidgit Rules Supplement..."
Personally, I try to go with what makes the most common sense for the specific situation. This does, however, often lead to inconsistency. C'est la D&D, eh?
1. I calculate that you've spent 22 points building Elyra. Everyone was allowed 15 points to spend on ability scores. Let me know what I might be missing here. Many of my comments are predicated on the scores reflected on your current character sheet, which may in turn render a lot of other errors in other departments depending upon whether you've overspent. In the ability score area, you also currently have a 14 Wisdom set to a +0 modifier when it should be +2 (but later in the sheet you've correctly used a +2 mod for Wis, so I'm guessing this is simple oversight not an actual error).
I think you may be overlooking the +2 human bonus on Dex, so the 16 there actually costs 5. That leaves:
13 3
16 5 (5 for 14, +2 human bonus)
12 2
12 2
14 5
8 -2
Total:17-2=15
I fixed the error next to Wis.
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2. A throwing axe should have a critical multiplier of x2, not x3. Again, let me know if you feel I've got this incorrect (with specific page number reference, if need be).
Sorry, my mistake. Fixed.
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3. You may need to adjust your attack and damage area to make the +1 to atk/dmg from Point Blank Shot more visible. Either that, or just be sure to remind me that you have PBS during combat so that I don't miss giving you the benefit of having the feat.
Modified.
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4. Let me know what sourcebook the Reactionary trait is from.
It's from the "Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement." As I write this, I realize I should have asked if that were fair game. Sorry about that. Here is the link: http://files.meetup.com/1101323/Path...its%20BETA.pdf
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5. You correctly, I think, spent 9 skill points on Elyra. Might want (as you've already observed in another post of yours) to adjust the skill header so that it reads 9, instead of 8.
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6. Let me know why Perception is using a miscellaneous modifier of +5. I'm seeing the +2 to Perception from the Alertness feat but am not sure where the other +3 is coming from.
+3 for class skill, +2 for Alertness feat
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7. I saw you might have been working out some ties with other character/s. Let me know what you've officially worked out (and then please include it in the background posted in the character repository for Elyra).
I was touching up Elyra's background a bit, and realized that with the connection between the characters I left the timeline a little tight. I changed it so that Elyra has been on the road for 5 years rather than 3, which gives Tac a little more time for his apprenticeship. If he's 17 now, he could have been 12-13 when Elyra took him to the guildhall (not long after she herself started on the road). That seems like a more credible age to start an apprenticeship, and gives him a little more time to make journeyman status. Sound OK?
I think you may be overlooking the +2 human bonus on Dex, so the 16 there actually costs 5.
Yup, I'd overlooked a lot of the tidbits in the chapter on race, the +2 bonus for humans included. Looks all clear now, thanks for pointing out what I was missing.
Quote:
It's from the "Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement." As I write this, I realize I should have asked if that were fair game. Sorry about that.
No, that's fine. It's certainly in keeping with the game. I have the download already, just haven't read it. As long as I know where the trait came from and can reference if need be, I'm good.
Not Merlin's Shadow? Remove thyself, kind sir or madam!
Spoiler:
What follows is my list of questions about Grokk's character sheet.
1. How'd you arrive at an AC of 16? I tally +4 for the armor, +2 for the shield, and -1 for Dex, for a total AC of 15. Let me know what I might be missing.
2. Have you added in Grokk's Resistant Touch ability that he gets from the Protection domain to his saves? I calculate his saving throws should be Fort +4 (base of 2, +1 for Con, +1 for the Resilient trait), Ref -1 (base of 0, -1 for Dex), and Will +5 (base of 2, +3 for Wis). Let me know how you derived everything to be one point higher. If it's from Resistant Touch and you plan to sometimes use Resistant Touch on an ally, then it might be better to separate the extra +1 from your standard saving throw stats.
3. Concentration isn't a skill in Pathfinder beta. Concentration got rolled into Spellcraft. You may want to re-tool your skill list and the Skill Focus (Concentration) feat that you selected...swapping Concentration out for Spellcraft would work, but you are certainly free to adjust things how you deem best.
4. I calculate that Knowledge (religion) should be +5, not +4. Looks like you get 1 rank, + 3 for it being a class skill, and +1 for Int...total of +5. Let me know why you've got it pegged at +4.
5. Where is the Murky-Eyed flaw from? Which supplement?
6. Where are the traits Caretaker and Resilient from?
7. What brings Grokk to Sandpoint? What's his in-character reason and/or backstory for being in Sandpoint?
Not Merlin's Shadow? Remove thyself, kind sir or madam!
Spoiler:
What follows is my list of questions about Grokk's character sheet.
1. How'd you arrive at an AC of 16? I tally +4 for the armor, +2 for the shield, and -1 for Dex, for a total AC of 15. Let me know what I might be missing.
2. Have you added in Grokk's Resistant Touch ability that he gets from the Protection domain to his saves? I calculate his saving throws should be Fort +4 (base of 2, +1 for Con, +1 for the Resilient trait), Ref -1 (base of 0, -1 for Dex), and Will +5 (base of 2, +3 for Wis). Let me know how you derived everything to be one point higher. If it's from Resistant Touch and you plan to sometimes use Resistant Touch on an ally, then it might be better to separate the extra +1 from your standard saving throw stats.
3. Concentration isn't a skill in Pathfinder beta. Concentration got rolled into Spellcraft. You may want to re-tool your skill list and the Skill Focus (Concentration) feat that you selected...swapping Concentration out for Spellcraft would work, but you are certainly free to adjust things how you deem best.
4. I calculate that Knowledge (religion) should be +5, not +4. Looks like you get 1 rank, + 3 for it being a class skill, and +1 for Int...total of +5. Let me know why you've got it pegged at +4.
5. Where is the Murky-Eyed flaw from? Which supplement?
6. Where are the traits Caretaker and Resilient from?
7. What brings Grokk to Sandpoint? What's his in-character reason and/or backstory for being in Sandpoint?
CB
This thread feels like it's turning into a super-ultra-top secret government document.
1. Whoops. Corrected.
2. I'll move it to a parenthetical. It's one of those things I know I would forget about if I didn't have it right there which is why I added it in.
3. Ack. Forgot about that change. I will just switch it to SF/Spellcraft.
4. I don't have an Int bonus. It's only 10. If you want to give me a free bump, though, I won't complain.
5. Unearthed Arcana. It's also at the online SRD.
6. These are from the Pathfinder traits .pdf that Ambrus linked to a few pages back.
7. I did add a brief bit about this to his background - "Grokk has come to Sandpoint with an interest in seeing the new church consecrated even if it is not his own faith. He also felt compelled to come as if his god was pushing him along." It's not much, but right now the character is more of a...feeling, than a concrete idea if you know what I mean. Part of it may be because I'm not too familiar with the setting, but I guess I'm trying to say that I have an understanding of the character, who he is and what he does, without having a firm grasp on his background right now. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.
If you are not jkason, then you should not be reading this.
Spoiler:
What follows is my list of questions about Tac's character sheet.
1. I'm not entirely certain about the description of Acrobatic you've got on Tac's character sheet. You've got, "Acrobatics: +3 fight defensive / +6 total defense." PF beta rules list the Acrobatic (singular, not plural) feat as:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PF Beta
Acrobatic
You are skilled at leaping, jumping, and climbing.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Acrobatics and Fly
skill checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these
skills the bonus increase to +4 for that skill.
Let me know what you mean by "Acrobatics," and where you're getting your info from.
2. Go ahead and take Varisian as a free bonus language for Tac. You've written a backstory that supports doing so. An Int of 12 nets you a choice of a third language, so let me know what you select.
3. Just verifying...the Mathematical Prodigy trait is in the Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement, correct? How about the Deft Dodger trait, where's that from?
4. You've used a +2 Charisma modifier for Tac's Bluff skill, but his Charisma of 12 should only net him a +1 modifier. Let me know if I've missed something.
5. Elyra is lawful good. Please get with mfloyd3 to make sure Elyra wouldn't negatively react to Tac's ability to "dismantle various locks." I can see a case for a LG Elyra strongly objecting to the possible uses for Tac's ability to dismantle locks.
6. Thanks for going the extra mile to calculate encumbrance.
If your character is Chelish, Varisian, or Shoanti, you may take the corresponding human sub-race bonus language for free.
I really should have clarified this using stronger language, so it's not your fault. If you elected to take traits, that's super. You may take up to two traits, but if you take one or more traits, you also need to take some kind of a flaw to balance things. Flaws are listed in Unearthed Arcana. Flaws might also be listed in other supplements. Hunt around a bit, if need be. If you didn't take any traits, then you don't need to take a flaw.
If you can't find flaws in any source material within arm's reach, let us know. I'm sure, between the lot of us, we can help you out.
I owe comments to Walking Dad for his paladin, Sivan. I'll do so in the morning. Sivan is the last character I need to vet before we start play, so hang tight. This game will be rolling out tomorrow afternoon.
I'm not clear on the traits vs flaws house rule. Do we have to take a flaw for each trait or just one for both? Do the flaws then not grant their usual bonus feats? How many flaws are we allowed in all? As is I took two traits, a flaw and one bonus feat. Is that right?
You may take up to two traits, but if you take one or more traits, you also need to take some kind of a flaw to balance things. Flaws are listed in Unearthed Arcana.
Sorry, I didn't understand this. I looked over the flaws in Unearthed Arcana and didn't see any that fit well, and I was never that excited about the traits either. So, I just revised the character sheet and eliminated the traits.
I think everything on Elyra's sheet is up to date, and GM-compliant at this point. Let me know if there are any more problems.
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