I'm not clear on the traits vs flaws house rule. Do we have to take a flaw for each trait or just one for both? Do the flaws then not grant their usual bonus feats? How many flaws are we allowed in all? As is I took two traits, a flaw and one bonus feat.
I'm basically looking for a smidge of balance. If you take one or more traits, you need to take one flaw. Again, I didn't make this explicit in my original statements about traits, so it's certainly not your fault for not realizing. You're not mind readers! Breaking this down...
If you want to take a flaw without taking a trait, that's fine. Up to two flaws allowed. You'd get the usual bonuses from taking a flaw. I believe Ambrus mentioned a bonus feat, which rings a bell.
And if you find the whole mess not worth bothering with, I completely understand. I myself probably wouldn't use traits if I were the one making a character--I like my PCs to be simple. When Paizo was publishing Burnt Offerings, it felt like a bit of a death sentence to 3.5. I allowed so many rules supplements for this game because I wanted to celebrate everything that is/was 3.5. Not my normal operating mode, but I think we can make it work with a minimum of disgust.
That's fine. Just don't get too carried away wth adding stuff, please.
You know, I had been thinking going into this that this might be the last PbP I DM. While I was getting cleaned up this morning, however, I had an idea to run a game that didn't use any sourcebooks at all for character creation. I'd adjudicate the story according to whichever singular rulesbook I was using, but players would be given true carte blanche to create a PC. What if I just said, "Hey, here's the background on the game, you can reasonably expect these kinds of situations during play, make a character but do so without using a rulebook."
I think it might force people to think more about the kind of character they play rather than considering just the numbers and making the background fit the numbers. This may sound counterintuitive, but I'd also lay money that people would suddenly get a lot more conservative with their stats.
I used to play in a PBEM game where the GM made the character sheets based on character history, and the players never saw them. We got a great collection of players, and some very solid backgrounds. Though the game lasted less than a year before the GM had to quit for personal reasons.
To this day, I'm not 100% sure the sheets existed. Not that it matters, I had a good time.
If you are not CanadienneBacon, then you should not be reading this
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Originally Posted by CanadienneBacon
1. I'm not entirely certain about the description of Acrobatic you've got on Tac's character sheet. You've got, "Acrobatics: +3 fight defensive / +6 total defense." PF beta rules list the Acrobatic (singular, not plural) feat as:
Let me know what you mean by "Acrobatics," and where you're getting your info from.
Sorry about that. It's from the new Acrobatics skill description (page 56 PFRPG):
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Special: If you are proficient in the Acrobatics skill, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.
I think proficient is the same as 'trained,' but I can't seem to find any specific definition in the ruleset.
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2. Go ahead and take Varisian as a free bonus language for Tac. You've written a backstory that supports doing so. An Int of 12 nets you a choice of a third language, so let me know what you select.
Dwarven seemed the best choice, since he's a builder, so I went with that.
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3. Just verifying...the Mathematical Prodigy trait is in the Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement, correct? How about the Deft Dodger trait, where's that from?
I was using the online version of the rules someone linked to here. Looks like they both come from a Paizo character traits PDF. But given that I misunderstood and would need to take two flaws to balance them out, I'm thinking of scrapping both of them.
I'm wondering, could I 'trade' one of Tac's standard class skills for Know: Engineering as a class skill? Given his obsessive bent when it comes to 'ooh! shiny machine!' I can't imagine he'd be up on any kind of local information, or even especially good at gathering it, so could I give up Know: local or Diplomacy (which now contains Gather Information) for Class proficiency in Engineering? It's not likely to be an especially useful skill, but it just seems weird given his background that he wouldn't have it.
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4. You've used a +2 Charisma modifier for Tac's Bluff skill, but his Charisma of 12 should only net him a +1 modifier. Let me know if I've missed something.
No, that was me. I originally had his Int lower and his Cha higher (thinking he'd have to Bluff his way through Engineering without the class skill bonus), then changed them, and I must have had the old Cha stuck in my brain. Should be fixed now. Sorry about that.
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5. Elyra is lawful good. Please get with mfloyd3 to make sure Elyra wouldn't negatively react to Tac's ability to "dismantle various locks." I can see a case for a LG Elyra strongly objecting to the possible uses for Tac's ability to dismantle locks.
I'll post a followup after this to straighten that out with mfloyd3. I think I have a quick-fix that'll make it work and also be a little fun RP-wise.
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6. Thanks for going the extra mile to calculate encumbrance.
That's fine. Just don't get too carried away wth adding stuff, please.
That'd be about it for me. I can't think of anything else I could add.
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Originally Posted by CanadienneBacon
I had an idea to run a game that didn't use any sourcebooks at all for character creation. I'd adjudicate the story according to whichever singular rulesbook I was using, but players would be given true carte blanche to create a PC.
I'm a little sketchy on what you're proposing exactly. Do you mean that character creation would solely involve writing a background with no game mechanics at all?
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Originally Posted by CanadienneBacon
I think it might force people to think more about the kind of character they play rather than considering just the numbers and making the background fit the numbers. This may sound counterintuitive, but I'd also lay money that people would suddenly get a lot more conservative with their stats.
My process for creating a character is to first come up with a concept; "I want to play a dragon", figuring out how best to accomplish it within the rules; "but the only way to play a true dragon is to use the monster class progression featured in D.M. 320", and then to develop a character background that incorporates the details/limitations mandated by those rules; "so I'm a small-sized hatchling who can't yet fly or breathe fire; I guess I'd best figure out why I'm not in a nest with my parents watching over me."
I don't really see any reasonable way to circumvent that process. If I were able to just skip the mechanics part then I'd just create a huge-sized adult dragon with all the draconic bells and whistles.
CB expressed some concern that Elyra might respond especially strongly to Tac dissasembling locks, given her alignment. I figured I could add a bit in the background where Elyra made him agree not to take locks apart (with a coursework exception, I suppose) if she agreed to take him to the guildhall? I figure that way Elyra's alignment needs are met, and we have a nice RP setup if there's cause for lockpicking in the adventure, as Tac has to get special permission from his cousin. What do you think?
CB expressed some concern that Elyra might respond especially strongly to Tac dissasembling locks, given her alignment. I figured I could add a bit in the background where Elyra made him agree not to take locks apart (with a coursework exception, I suppose) if she agreed to take him to the guildhall? I figure that way Elyra's alignment needs are met, and we have a nice RP setup if there's cause for lockpicking in the adventure, as Tac has to get special permission from his cousin. What do you think?
Sure, that sounds good. My read on it when I saw it in your background -- Which I think was your intention -- Was that Elyra felt the need to "save" her cousin from being exploited by the family. So yes, her making him promise never to pick locks is consistent.
By the way, to give you another side to the relationship (which perhaps I can add to Elyra's background), Elyra is hugely proud of her cousin. She explores everywhere, and among the things that impress her are the ruins and monuments left behind by the old civilizations. Her cousin *makes* these, and they are going to be there long after her footprints have washed away. Privately, she thinks taking him to the guildhall might be the most significant thing she ever does with her life. And if she ever saw him trying to throw that away by slipping into crime, she would slap him on the side of the head!
Of course, given that she's not good at expressing herself, and Tac's pretty oblivious, it's safe to assume he knows nothing about this.
Sure, that sounds good. My read on it when I saw it in your background -- Which I think was your intention -- Was that Elyra felt the need to "save" her cousin from being exploited by the family. So yes, her making him promise never to pick locks is consistent.
Just what I was thinking. Cool.
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By the way, to give you another side to the relationship (which perhaps I can add to Elyra's background), Elyra is hugely proud of her cousin. She explores everywhere, and among the things that impress her are the ruins and monuments left behind by the old civilizations. Her cousin *makes* these, and they are going to be there long after her footprints have washed away. Privately, she thinks taking him to the guildhall might be the most significant thing she ever does with her life. And if she ever saw him trying to throw that away by slipping into crime, she would slap him on the side of the head!
Of course, given that she's not good at expressing herself, and Tac's pretty oblivious, it's safe to assume he knows nothing about this.
Oooh. I really like this. Tac idolizes Elyra without realizing how proud she is of him in return. I love it.
'She did ask the odd boon of his promise never to dismantle another lock (outside of coursework) in return, but Tac was only too eager to agree.'
This way, Elyra's alignment is satisfied without letting Tac in on what was really going on with his family. It also provides a neat RP element in Tac needed to ask Elyra's permission if the adventure requires lockpicking.
Also, given how many elements of Tac's background make him kind of oblivious to people, I think I made a mistake choosing Sense Motive for his skills. Would you mind if I took Linguistics in its place? I'd probably pick Chelaxian as the language from that rank if so, given Magnimar is Chelaxian and it could arguably be the language many of his texts would have been in.
jkason, if you take one trait, you need to take a flaw. If you take two traits, you still only owe me just the one flaw. So if, for example, someone decides to bite the bullet and go ahead and take one trait, they might as well just take a second trait, too, becuase it's essentially "free" to take the second trait. I'm only looking to see one flaw on your character sheet, and even then only if you've taken one or two traits.
If you want to swap out a class skill and take Knowledge (engineering) in its stead, I'm fine with that. Let me know what you decide.
Ambrus, Shayuri, mfloyd3, Merlin's Shadow, and jkason: I've vetted your character sheets and have read your responses to my questions. Have I given you guys a second round of feedback? I think I've gotten everyone covered on a second round of feedback but it's possible I missed someone or something. If you're still waiting for me to reply to something you mentioned or asked, give me a nudge today.
Walking Dad, I'm fixing to sit down and review Sivan in detail. Will probably have a post up for you within the next two hours.
Well, I dunno. I don't know that you would. You never know, you might just decide not to pull out all the stops.
Not sure. To be honest I really enjoy making characters within the rules. It's fun to see what can be created when the rules are properly massaged. But also, the rules occasionally throw a curve ball and impair a character in interesting and unexpected ways which in turn force one to be creative in figuring out how the character came to be that way. My dragon for instance, he's severely limited in his abilities when compared to an average wyrmling; he can't even fly. But why? I have some ideas to explain that oddity, which in turn sparks some potentially fun role-playing opportunities.
Ambrus, Shayuri, mfloyd3, Merlin's Shadow, and jkason: I've vetted your character sheets and have read your responses to my questions. Have I given you guys a second round of feedback? I think I've gotten everyone covered on a second round of feedback but it's possible I missed someone or something. If you're still waiting for me to reply to something you mentioned or asked, give me a nudge today.
Walking Dad, I'm fixing to sit down and review Sivan in detail. Will probably have a post up for you within the next two hours.
In my case you were waiting on me to provide some updates.
That wait is now over.
Talashia's updated. Alignment, description, a better accounting of attribute points, and a background have been added. The background may change if another player wants to link up, but probably not by much.
jkason, if you take one trait, you need to take a flaw. If you take two traits, you still only owe me just the one flaw. So if, for example, someone decides to bite the bullet and go ahead and take one trait, they might as well just take a second trait, too, becuase it's essentially "free" to take the second trait. I'm only looking to see one flaw on your character sheet, and even then only if you've taken one or two traits.
If you want to swap out a class skill and take Knowledge (engineering) in its stead, I'm fine with that. Let me know what you decide.
Honestly, I only took the trait to make Know: engineering in-class. I have no burning need for the other bonuses (but before I realized the flaw restriction, it seemed silly to pass them up ), so if you're okay with the skill-swap, I'll just dump the traits to make things simpler.
Know: local is arguably a more useful skill but doesn't much fit the character concept, so if that's okay, Tac will trade that in for 'in-class' Engineering.
Only thing I think I have left is that I was going to drop Sense Motive and take Linguistics instead (adding Chelaxian as his rank language). The more I thought about it, the less sense it makes for him to have a good Sense Motive score given how oblivious he was to his family's motives / Elyra's real reasons for taking him / etc. If that's okay, let me know and I think Tac will be ready.
Old man with a stick: Get outta my yard, you kids who ain't Walking Dad!!!
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Yay! Almost ready to play! Here are my questions regarding Sivan. Thanks for waiting for me to get to you.
1. Even accounting for the +2 to Strength that you selected as your ability score boost for being human, I calculate that you've spent 18 points building Sivan's ability scores. Let me know if you feel I've got this wrong, but if I'm right, then you're over your allotment by 3 points and will need to get creative about a fix.
2. Let me know why you list Sivan's CMB as +4/+8. I get the +4. I'm not sure why you also have the +8.
3. Just confirming...between the extra skill point or extra hit point for taking a favored class, you went with the extra hit point, right?
4. Sivan's character sheet lists a +1 Misc modifier on his Will save. Why?
5. The background you wrote for Sivan supports the idea that he'd know Varisian. Since I declared a few posts up that Varisian is a freebie for humans who are of the Varisian sub-race, you get Varisian for free. Let me know how you allocate his third language.
6. How'd you get three feats? I count one for being first level and one for human. Not sure where the third feat is coming from. Let me know.
7. Diplomacy looks like it should be +6, not the +5 you have listed on Sivan's sheet.
8. You also get more money. Paladins in PF beta use 5d6 x 10 for their starting gold. Since we're going with max gold, that's 300 gp. I calculate that you've spent 219 gp, which means you should have 81 gp left, not 21 gp.
9. Since renau1g elected to forego this game, we no longer have Chaine as a character. You'll need to amend your background for Sivan. I'd also like you to include a tidbit explaining how Sivan fits in with the group (if he doesn't know anyone yet, that's okay, but you need to clarify), and why he's in Sandpoint. Let me know.
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What do you think?
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