The Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide makes mention of goblins rummaging around in the junktoss bellow Junker’s Edge in the rumors section. "Don’t go down to the junktoss after dark: goblins steal the trash at night." I simply assumed that there was an element of veracity to that rumor. I can change it if you prefer.
I lost my original post just now when I inadvertantly hit the back button on my Web browser, so this will be a condensed re-post that hits the highlights of what I wanted to say. I spent 20 minutes last night hunting through the adventure module for where I thought I remembered seeing a tidbit about goblins around Sandpoint prior to the start of the adventure, to no avail. Duh--no wonder I couldn't find it--it's in the Player's Guide, not the module. Go right on ahead with your "barking at marauding goblins" tidbit in your backstory.
I'll wait to go over Taran's skill set until I know for sure that you've adjusted skill ranks to compensate for Gather Information being a sub-set of Diplomacy.
I'm seeing what may be some discrepancies in skill allocation in some of the character sheets. I'll address any discrepancies with individual players, but before I do, I want to make sure that I myself have a firm grasp on how Pathfinder addresses skill allocation for first-level characters and for subsequent levels. Of those of you who have seen play with Pathfinder, if you could please post with a breakdown of how skills work, I'd be appreciative.
My basic understanding is, for example, that a human druid with an Intelligence of 12 would start play at first level with 6 points to spend (4 points for being a druid, 1 point for having a 12 intelligence, and 1 point for being human--assuming he hasn't taken an extra hit point instead of the extra skill point). As a 1 HD creature, the character could put only 1 rank in each skill he selects. After selecting his skills, he would add a +3 bonus to each skill that appears on his favored skill list for his class. The druid's finished skill list might look like this:
Handle Animal: +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Charisma of 12)
Heal: +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)
Knowledge (nature): +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Intelligence of 12)
Perception: +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)
Spellcraft: +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Intelligence of 12)
Survival: +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)
If the human decides at first level that Druid will be his chosen favorite class, it looks like he woud start play with 7 skill points to spend. His ranks will always be limited by his HD, however.
Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples. And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.
Last edited by CanadienneBacon; 3rd June 2009 at 03:37 PM..
Reason: added Int modifier to Know(nature) and Spellcraft
[quote]
If the druid decides at first level that Ranger will be his chosen favorite class, it looks like he woud start play with 7 skill points to spend. His ranks will always be limited by his HD, however.
Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples. And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.
[\quote]
OK, I'm new to pathfinder as well, but let me take a stab at this. You mix ranger and druid up there, but let me give you my understanding of each:
Druid: 4 points for being a druid, +1 for having 12 Int, +1 for being a human, +1 for choosing druid as a favored class =7.
Ranger: 6 points for being a ranger, +1 for having 12 Int, +1 for being human, +1 for choosing ranger as favored class=9.
These examples assume that the player chose to exercise the "+1 skill point" for favored class option, rather than the "+1 hit point" option. That may be part of the inconsistency between characters.
And yes, the skill allocation you give (except for Spellcraft, noted below), including the +3 bonus for a skill from the favored class list, seems to be correct.
At second level, my understanding is that the druid gets 6 points, and the option to choose a skill point for the "favored class" bonus for a total of 7 skill points. The ranger has a choice of getting 8 or 9. It appears that you can make this choice over again at every level.
If the druid puts 1 rank into a new skill that is a class skill, he gets the +3 bonus to that as well. For instance, if he puts a rank into Knowledge(geography), he gets
Knowledge(geography): 5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for INT 12)
However, adding a rank to a skill he already has does not add additional favored class bonus, it just increases the skill by +1.
Also, a nitpick: In your example above, Spellcraft should be +5 (+1 for his Int 12).
By the way, when you mentioned this, I noticed I listed 8 SP as the total for Elyra, but gave her 9. My understanding is that 9 is the correct number, as calculated above (I think when I was originally writing the character sheet I was confused about the "favored class" issue myself). Sorry about the confusion.
Anyway, I'm new to Pathfinder as well. Anyone see anything wrong with the above?
Thanks,
Mark
Last edited by mfloyd3; 3rd June 2009 at 03:31 PM..
You mix ranger and druid up there, but let me give you my understanding of each
Fixed in an edit, posted just a few minutes before you posted this. For coherency's sake, let's assume we're working with the druid example for the life of this conversation.
Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples. And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.
Seems you've got it right to me.
At 2nd level, the druid gains another 6 skill points (4 base, +1 Int, +1 for being human) with the option of taking an extra skill point or hit point assuming that druid is the favored class.
# Skill Points Allocated at 1st Level = class allocation + Int mod + 1 if human (assuming the human didn't already take +1 to his HP).
Correct?
Not quite. At its base, the formula is simply Class allocation + Int bonus. In addition to that each character gains either +1 hit point or skill point if taking a level in their favored class.
Humans then gain an additional skill point as a racial trait. Clear?
That's all correct, and the Druid then gets the same number of skill points (with the same choice of +1 skill point vs. +1 hp for taking a level in his favored class) each time he takes a Druid level.
It's also worth noting that the +3 bonus for class skills only kicks in when the character is trained in that skill (takes one rank).
Basically, this system simplifies calculations (while keeping the advantage of class skills) and removes the temptation to take a 'skill monkey' level at first to get that huge skill point advantage from the x4 multiplier. A PF rogue doesn't get any more skill points at first level than he will at any other level.
CB, if you'd rather I not kibbitz just let me know and I'll cut it out.
I've gone through your character sheet. What follows below are my questions.
1. I'm not seeing an alignment listed on the sheet. I think I did read somewhere in this thread, however, that you're planning to be either NG or CG. Let me know.
2. Ability scores look incorrectly allocated. Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8). A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation. Let me know if I'm missing something here.
3. Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from? I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet. I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.
4. I'm not seeing a Fly skill listed for Talashia, despite her Air Elemental bloodline granting her the Elemental Movement special ability of Fly. Are you planning on adding this skill later?
5. With regard to the Charisma score of 18, which costs whopping 17 points to buy and may prove to be beyond the reach of a 1st-lvl PC with only 15 points to spend, there are quite a few things tied to that 18 that may or may not need amending...base spellcasting DC, Bluff, Intimidate...let me know.
6. Still waiting for the official background to make its way to the official character sheet. Let me know when you have Description and Background fleshed out in full.
Did everyone note that once we moved from the 3.5 PHB to the PF beta ruleset, we also moved to a 15 point-buy for ability scores? Unless I'm a huge dummy (always a possibility), I'm seeing some really inflated ability scores in ya'll's character sheets. I'll do some more double-checking to see where we might have gotten our lines crossed on this issue.
By all means, though, if you know what the devil's going on, please speak up.
8. Classic reference in Taran's background to Gorvi spotting Taran and thinking he'd seen the Sandpoint Devil. It reinforces Gorvi's already dubious character within Sandpoint.
Glad you like it. I have to admit my secret hope that there isn't any real Sandpoint Devil as a part of the adventure. I'm rather fond of the idea that the rumors about it have their origins in the locals catching the occasional fleeting glimpse Taran's draconic progenitor and are now being perpetuated because of Taran's own presence. In essence, Taran is the "Sandpoint Devil".
I believe I'll take the Absent Minded trait instead of Child of the Streets if that's okay. Seems appropriate for a budding scholar. As for reassigning my skill point from Gather Information, I'm instead considering taking a rank in Knowledge (Dungeoneering).
I'm also toying with the idea of Taran having crafted his own leather barding (cut into the shape of overlapping scales) out of discarded scraps found in the Junktoss to supplement his own nonexistent natural armor. His Intelligence is sufficient to create leather armor by taking 10 on an untrained craft skill. I'd pay for the base materials out of his starting funds of course. It'd depend on a perceived need for protection; which I imagine Taran would have if he'd been introduced to the business end of a goblin's dogslicer once or twice. I'll likely aim to acquire masterwork studded leather or a mithral shirt eventually.
Did everyone note that once we moved from the 3.5 PHB to the PF beta ruleset, we also moved to a 15 point-buy for ability scores? Unless I'm a huge dummy (always a possibility), I'm seeing some really inflated ability scores in ya'll's character sheets.
Doh! I had Elyra's Cha wrong, I think the points add correctly now. Sorry about that.
Last edited by mfloyd3; 3rd June 2009 at 05:16 PM..
1. I'm not seeing an alignment listed on the sheet. I think I did read somewhere in this thread, however, that you're planning to be either NG or CG. Let me know.
-- Oops, that was an oversight. I'm looking at Chaotic Good...though it may be her time at the school has mellowed her to Neutral. I will think on this and decide by the time I update with her background.
2. Ability scores look incorrectly allocated. Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8). A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation. Let me know if I'm missing something here.
-- You are missing the +2 to one stat that all humans get in Pathfinder. I only paid for a Charisma of 16, then boosted it to 18 with that bonus. I will make that clearer on my final sheet.
3. Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from? I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet. I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.
-- Humans in Pathfinder get a martial weapon proficiency as a racial trait. You should read the Race section. There are a lot of small, but noticible changes there.
4. I'm not seeing a Fly skill listed for Talashia, despite her Air Elemental bloodline granting her the Elemental Movement special ability of Fly. Are you planning on adding this skill later?
-- Yes. Her Fly power doesn't kick in until level 15, if I recall right. She has -plenty- of time to pick Fly up.
5. With regard to the Charisma score of 18, which costs whopping 17 points to buy and may prove to be beyond the reach of a 1st-lvl PC with only 15 points to spend, there are quite a few things tied to that 18 that may or may not need amending...base spellcasting DC, Bluff, Intimidate...let me know.
-- See above.
6. Still waiting for the official background to make its way to the official character sheet. Let me know when you have Description and Background fleshed out in full.
-- I will post to the OOC thread when I have that update. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow.
Thanks for the comments! Hope I answered your concerns.
If you're not mfloyd3, please get the heck outta here.
Spoiler:
What follows below is my list of questions for you with regard to Elyra:
1. I calculate that you've spent 22 points building Elyra. Everyone was allowed 15 points to spend on ability scores. Let me know what I might be missing here. Many of my comments are predicated on the scores reflected on your current character sheet, which may in turn render a lot of other errors in other departments depending upon whether you've overspent. In the ability score area, you also currently have a 14 Wisdom set to a +0 modifier when it should be +2 (but later in the sheet you've correctly used a +2 mod for Wis, so I'm guessing this is simple oversight not an actual error).
2. A throwing axe should have a critical multiplier of x2, not x3. Again, let me know if you feel I've got this incorrect (with specific page number reference, if need be).
3. You may need to adjust your attack and damage area to make the +1 to atk/dmg from Point Blank Shot more visible. Either that, or just be sure to remind me that you have PBS during combat so that I don't miss giving you the benefit of having the feat.
4. Let me know what sourcebook the Reactionary trait is from.
5. You correctly, I think, spent 9 skill points on Elyra. Might want (as you've already observed in another post of yours) to adjust the skill header so that it reads 9, instead of 8.
6. Let me know why Perception is using a miscellaneous modifier of +5. I'm seeing the +2 to Perception from the Alertness feat but am not sure where the other +3 is coming from.
7. I saw you might have been working out some ties with other character/s. Let me know what you've officially worked out (and then please include it in the background posted in the character repository for Elyra).
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