Due to some unemployment-induced idle time, I've been rewatching my Buffy and Angel DVDs lately, and about halfway through that I started kicking around ideas for a game in the BtvS universe. Probably in concept more like Angel (i.e. largely adult characters, and more episodic than 'big bad' focused), set here and now in 2009 (i.e. about 5 years after the shows went off the air) and ignoring anything other than the TV shows (i.e. comics, novels, etc.) because I haven't seen it.
Big Questions
1 - System
I've got the Angel RPG, but have never used it (and don't have the Buffy RPG). Also, it's just the core rulebook; I don't have anything else (and I don't know if anything else was ever published). I've got and have played Mutants & Masterminds 2e, which is probably what I'd end up using here; nothing else seems sufficiently flexible (though I'd put a pretty strict limit on how many points could be spent on powers). The only other things I've got that might sort of work are d20 Modern, True20, and a hyper-tweaked SWSE.
UPDATE: It will be M&M 2e. PL8 characters, details down-thread.
2 - Setting
Real (mostly) or fictional (i.e. LA or Sunnydale)? If real, somewhere I sort-of know (which basically means San Diego, Cleveland, or upstate NY) or just wing it?
I'm going to assume that any major characters that didn't die on-screen are alive (with the exception of Gunn, who was both dying and heading into a doomed battle when we last saw him; Angel and Spike were heading into a doomed battle as well, but they don't seem to stay dead).
UPDATE: The game will be set in San Diego, CA, USA.
3 - Characters
Post-season 7 finale there are quite a few active Slayers, but I can't see have more than two as PCs (and that's pushing it). I'm thinking mostly unique characters; you could run someone who had a bit part and wasn't mostly evil. Angel showed a fair number of 'freaks' with some sort of psi powers (one major telekinetic and electro-girl Gwen come to mind) and both shows had well-trained normals that could hold their own in a fight with demonkind (Riley, Robin Wood, Gunn). Probably the ability to at least appear human would be required.
Anyway, would anyone be interested?
Update: Tenative character mechanics guidelines
Base PL8/120 points with the following restrictions
Attributes
- normal humans cannot have any attributes above 20 (either base or via the Enhanced Ability power), or more than one attribute above 16
- slayers, half-demons, and robots can have physical stats of up to 24
Skills
- no special restrictions
Feats
- only normal humans can take Fortune feats
- minions are not allowed
Powers
- I'm not going to have many hard and fast rules, as even a normal human might want some powers, perhaps bound in a Device (weapon or armor) or to learn some Magic, but try to stay in the range of things that good guys have had on the shows (and Dark Willow is not a good guy, nor is Illyria!); Slayers typically have Regeneration
- However, these are outright banned: boost, duplication, gestalt, mimic, mind control, mind switch, nullify, nemesis, possession, power control, space travel, summon (minion), teleport, transfer, any form of time travel/temporal control (some of these have been used in the shows, granted, but I don't think I want them in any good guy's stock abilities)
Equipment
- PCs should be able to live like middle-class Americans at minimum. This game is not going to be set in NYC, so it's probably a good idea to have a car. Guns don't kill vampires (and have limitted effects on heavily armored demons) but will probably be more useful in this game than they were on the show
- Unless you're an active member of a military organization, getting military weapons will be difficult. However, with some persistance, adult PCs should have no trouble acquiring standard firearms (non-autofire weapons), even in California.
Character guidelines
For one reason or another, your character has been dragged into the fight against things that go bump in the night, and is doing that in San Diego, California.
Interested. Especially if it's M&M which is one of my favorite systems.
And yeah, 'slayers' are pretty generic in the aftermath of season 7. And Sunnydale's hellmouth was destroyed (along with Sunnydale), so probably not much reason to set it there.
But the setting supports a whole lot of weird concepts. Creatures from other dimensions, lycanthropes, reformed demons, psychics, magicians, robots...and the source material suits most RPG's in that the shows all revolve around "gatherings of freaks," which is what most gaming groups wind up making anyway.
I'm definitely a fan of Buffy-related stuffs, though I haven't played the systems listed (I keep hearing great things about M&M, though). So I guess, conceptually I'm interested; it'd just be a matter of how easy the system you picked was to learn?
Interested. Especially if it's M&M which is one of my favorite systems.
... which I've run all of one PC in. I've got the coure rulebook and Ultimate Power; but since I don't regularly play the system, that's it. Not sure what supplements (if any) would be useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayuri
And yeah, 'slayers' are pretty generic in the aftermath of season 7.
Well, they're generic in that there are a lot of them. I mean, no one would confuse Buffy, Kendra, Faith, and Kennedy. On the other hand, the rest of the former potentials (that lived) are pretty much blank slates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayuri
And Sunnydale's hellmouth was destroyed (along with Sunnydale), so probably not much reason to set it there.
Well, yeah, but 'generic SoCal exurb/college town' is pretty simple to set up, and can easily be extrapolated by looking out the window (I live a few blocks from the real UCSD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayuri
But the setting supports a whole lot of weird concepts. Creatures from other dimensions, lycanthropes, reformed demons, psychics, magicians, robots...and the source material suits most RPG's in that the shows all revolve around "gatherings of freaks," which is what most gaming groups wind up making anyway.
True, though Lorne was the ony signifcant character that couldn't pass as human to a casual observer. Angel and Spike had the classic vampire tell-tales as well, but I think I want to avoid adding to the vampire with a soul count...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayuri
(psst...coughstarwarsgamecough)
Yeah, I know. The other reason I was watching a lot of Buffy and Angel was that I've been too out of it to do decent encounter design for the Star Wars game .
Huge fan of the Buffyverse here. I'm seen every Buffy episode multiple times, though I've not ever watch Angel all the way through. I've been looking for a good deal on the DVDs, though.
With that said, I only have d20 Modern. So if you decide to use that system, count me in. If you run with another system, I may be able to pick it up. It would just depend.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
Well, I didn't mean generic character-wise, yeah. More generic in terms of their powers. They all have basically the same abilities.
That's not a bad thing though, and I can definitely see that any group of 'demon hunters' would want a slayer at the nucleus. It is, after all, why they exist.
I concur on the 'souled vamp' thing too. Way overdone. The show already pretty much explored all the permutations of "vampire allies." It'd be good to get back to them being dangerous and implacable foes.
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As for system, I'm open, but M&M is basically just a streamlined d20 with some different rules for combat and a point based ability acquisition system to replace classes. If you've played D&D or d20 modern, it's a cinch to pick up.
Well, yeah, but 'generic SoCal exurb/college town' is pretty simple to set up, and can easily be extrapolated by looking out the window (I live a few blocks from the real UCSD).
And we know there is another Hellmouth in Cleveland.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
Definitely the vampire en-souling is rather played out, though with all the hammering of 'vampires are evil, end of story' in the show, there seems to be a lot of ambiguity about the native evil-ness of demon-blood, oddly enough. Which could provide some interesting RP, since it's also unclear how those relatively benign demon species interact with the 'underworld community.' And the now-large Slayer community, for that matter.
Definitely the vampire en-souling is rather played out, though with all the hammering of 'vampires are evil, end of story' in the show, there seems to be a lot of ambiguity about the native evil-ness of demon-blood, oddly enough. Which could provide some interesting RP, since it's also unclear how those relatively benign demon species interact with the 'underworld community.' And the now-large Slayer community, for that matter.
jason
I dunno. Spike went 'good' before he ever had a soul. In fact, I found myself getting a bit annoyed with how the show set vampires up to be evil, then started backtracking and showing them as more sympathetic, less menacing (Harmony, anyone?).
I don't mind that a very few vampires either find redemption or at the very least aren't all THAT bad...but I think it undermines the whole premise if that happens a lot. It needs to be established that those incidents are very rare, and often ill-fated.
I dunno. Spike went 'good' before he ever had a soul. In fact, I found myself getting a bit annoyed with how the show set vampires up to be evil, then started backtracking and showing them as more sympathetic, less menacing (Harmony, anyone?).
I don't mind that a very few vampires either find redemption or at the very least aren't all THAT bad...but I think it undermines the whole premise if that happens a lot. It needs to be established that those incidents are very rare, and often ill-fated.
The Spike plot was something of a mess, largely because I think the writers were flailing for ways to keep the character around and only partially succeeded in maintaining his central appeal in the process.
I think Harmony worked better for me because she answered a question I'd always wondered: where the hell does every vampire get super ninja training? I was amused that she acted good out of a survival need (the demon community would certainly have no problem literally eating her alive, after all) rather than any real moral compass.
The in-game question, I suppose, is: would having demon-y PC's undermine things, as well? I don't *think* so, but I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise. In general, I somehow always got the impression that vampires were the Buffyverse pirhanna (eat anything and everything that gets within bite range), while other demons were, say, various shark species: dangerous, but not necessarily always, to the same degree, and/or to humans specifially. I suppose flavor-wise, though, we'd want to figure that out early-ish.
The in-game question, I suppose, is: would having demon-y PC's undermine things, as well? I don't *think* so, but I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise. In general, I somehow always got the impression that vampires were the Buffyverse pirhanna (eat anything and everything that gets within bite range), while other demons were, say, various shark species: dangerous, but not necessarily always, to the same degree, and/or to humans specifially. I suppose flavor-wise, though, we'd want to figure that out early-ish.
I don't think demon PCs would undermine anything. There were plenty of example of good and/or non-evil demon characters in both Buffy and Angel. The key, as Drothgery mentioned, would be to ensure they could at least pass for human.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
Yar, don't get me wrong, Harmony cracked me up. But she did sort of make vampires cute and fluffy.
As for "demony" PC's, I think it's fine. I am considering a PC who's got demonic heritage, for example...maybe even half-demon. The term 'demon' in Buffy is very broad. Lots of demons seem relatively sanguine, if alien, and are content to leave people be if they're left be. Some seem like they're just refugees from other dimensions, rather than an evil spirit from hell.
By the end of the show, Sunnydale had a complete sort of 'demon underground,' which the main characters were well aware of and which functioned with their tacit approval (ie - they let it go on with the understanding that they wouldn't kill and eat people, and in return the slayer wouldn't come and shove sharp things in tender places). So there's clearly FDA-approved doses of demon that are acceptable.
By the end of the show, Sunnydale had a complete sort of 'demon underground,' which the main characters were well aware of and which functioned with their tacit approval (ie - they let it go on with the understanding that they wouldn't kill and eat people, and in return the slayer wouldn't come and shove sharp things in tender places). So there's clearly FDA-approved doses of demon that are acceptable.
Angel also established that Los Angeles had a "demon underground" as well. So it goes to say that there could be an underground just about anywhere.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
I could be interested. I'm not quite a fan nor very knowledgeable about Buffy. Last episode I've seen was years ago, but I like that kind of world. Lately, I've been reading the Dresden Files, and it have put me in a mood for such a world. I would be interested, and I might play someone who just discover the world of vampires and demons to represent my lack of knowledge about the Buffyverse. Except of new born slayer, what else could fit that?
I am pretty familiar with M&M 2e.
__________________ Living ENWorld di Senzio's Magical Shop, the best place to buy and sell magical items in Orussus
Lots of possibilities. You could be a mutant or psychic of some kind. Or a mystic just awakening to his powers. You could be an extra-dimensional who just got warped in...perhaps due to some ill-advised spell miscast, or a trinket of mad science running amok. You could be an ex-soldier, discharged because you've seen too much.
Xander was actually one of my favorite characters. No special skills at all, but still right there fighting evil night after night.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
Very big buffy/angel fan here.
I presume you'll be ignoring anything that's happened in the whedon comics that took place after the series? They do flesh out a lot more stuff that's happened since the shows, and anybody who hasn't read them would be at a loss for what's currently happening.
Probably be the best idea to just start clean-slate timeline at the end of the angel series.
I agree that extra souled-vamps is a bad Idea, but I think having vampire/demon/whatever PC's would make the game more interesting. Maybe some of the PC's come from a background that's more commonly thought of as 'evil' but are working with the 'good guys' for their own reasons? ('The enemy of my enemy', 'lesser of two evils', etc).
As far as system goes, I don't have access to the buffy/angel RPG's, but either D20 Modern or M&M would work fairly well, and be accessible to most people. If you're wanting 'special' characters (Psychics, demons, super-humans), then M&M would probably be more appropriate. If you're going for more of a "Normal people VS the supernatural" approach, then I'd suggest d20 modern.
Another alternative could be using the world of darkness rules.
In anycase, I'd very much enjoy being a part of such a game, maybe as the resident mage/mystical expert.
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