So I have just had a new player on board for the game this Sunday and he is looking to play a Kalashtar Cleric. I have my campaign in a setting generic world, but I love the flavour and idea behind the Kalashtar. Any ideas on how to make them tie together with the Triliths?
... and not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a great honking spoiler for the campaign arc ...
Spoiler:
Seeing as how the trillith are spawned from the dreams of a great gold dragon, whom, they believe, they must keep entrapped in magical slumber so that they can continue to exist, and the kalashtar are themselves escapees from the realm of dreams, some kind of ages-old rivalry immediately suggests itself.
Awesome, as I haven't read through much more than the first half of the first adventure, are the Triliths generally evil/good? I guess I could align the Kalashtar as allies of the dragon being entrapped. They had to flee as the Triliths were taking over the dream world and are looking for a way to free the dragon. Though, when they fled the dreamworld they lost most of their memories of the clash between Kalashtar and Triliths. Thoughts?
In general, the trillith do not have the heroes' best interests in mind. Many actively work against the heroes, and their overarching agenda is not conducive to the, how shall we say, continued existence of the physical world. Any of it.
Awesome Marius, I can definitely work with that Thanks for the help! Kind of wishing some more of the players were Kalashtar now, oh well. Oh last question is, how prominent are the Triliths throughout the campaign. And are their machinations majorly thwarted by the heroes?
They're behind a couple of major beats in the saga -- problems the heroes really need to overcome in order to bring the thing to an acceptable conclusion. There's one coming up in Adventure Four, for instance, that's essentially in control of all the important things that happen throughout the adventure until the heroes flush her/it out -- and even then, she/it might manage a partial victory. And as I insinuated last time, if the heroes don't majorly thwart their overarching goal late in the saga, the physical world ceases to exist, with all the obvious ramifications that entails.
Actually Eric, unless you guys changed the timeline a bit, it's kinda hard for kalashtar and trillith to be 'old enemies.'
Spoiler:
The trillith only appeared on the scene 40 or 50 years ago (a century tops; I don't have my book with me), unless you want to change their backstory a bit.
Now, the kalashtar could be similar to characters like Kathor and Crystin, both of whom have a trillith living inside them. The trick is that the trillith are supposed to be a bit of a mystery in the series, so optimally you want a set-up that gives the PC an 'in' without giving away the secret.
Perhaps 40 years ago a group of human psions captured a trillith and trapped pieces of its essence in each of them, or they befriended a trillith who had turned against its kin, and it shared its boon with them. They became kalashtar, gaining psychic powers, and they passed down stories about the trillith to the PC without really knowing what it was that they encountered.
Alternately, you could rewrite the setting a bit and say that the trillith were always around in a dream realm, and that Trilla (the dragon) just provided them a gateway into our world. In the original idea of the setting, the trillith are like the children of Trilla, but here they might be prisoners, sucked into the physical world through Trilla's nightmares, and seeking a way back home, even if that means killing millions.
But yeah, lots of ways you could go about it. In the original campaign that inspired WotBS, one of the PCs was Kathor, so I'm fully supportive of you giving one of the players a connection to the trillith.
__________________ Ryan "RangerWickett" Nock
Author of the War of the Burning Sky serialized novel, free at EN World. Part Two, The Irons Have Tolled, now available.
Being a huge Eberron fan, perhaps I can give some suggestions on how to tailor things;
Spoiler:
Historically Kalashtar's arch-enemies are the Quori. Beings from the realm of dreams. Now, the interesting thing is the CURRENT Quori are NOT the Quori the Kalashtar escaped from. When Dal Quor (the realm of dreams) comes into alignment with Eberron the Quori are re-created, and when Dal Quor comes out of alignment they are all destroyed (those in the plane). Thus the current Quori in Eberron seek to maintain Dal Quor's alignment for EVER to prevent their destruction. Hence the Dreaming Dark maintains control over an entire Continent.
Perhaps the trilith's realm of dreams has the same phenomenon. Perhaps some other ancient dreaming entity once spawned the trilith and the kalashtar escaped from that scenario, and therefore have that sort of rivalry.
Well, I haven't worked the writing at all, I'm just brainstorming. That little detail escaped me!
Spoiler:
Because of the time scale involved, I had actually been thinking the present-day trillith are descendants... somehow... of the beings the kalashtar escaped, or that the trillith are, though new visitors to the physical world, not "new beings" at all but rather "old ideas given shape." That way it doesn't really matter how long they've been running around, and I'm off the hook.
"Trilla the gateway" was much like what I had in mind, tossing in a good old fashioned dose of envy (kalashtar are real in a way the trillith can never be!) and stirring for a millennium or three.
Overall, though, I figured I'd let the OP work out the nitty-gritty details.
@the8bitdeity: Sounds like that could be made to work, too!
Hm. Actually, that raises an obscure point to the setting (at least the one I had in my head, circa 3.5):
Spoiler:
In adventure 12, the PCs come across a trillith-like spirit called Time, which guards the Aquiline Heart. It takes the form of a ghostly dragon, and in my head I always thought that the creature was basically a trillith created by the Flamebringer Dragon.
Just as Trilla got weird psychic powers after having infernal and celestial energy poured into her, so too could the primordial fire spirit have gotten powers after consuming the flesh of the ancient air spirit, the Stormchaser Eagle. If you read adventure 10 of the 3.5 version, you might have noted that
A) Silesh-el-Mavisha, the Tidereaver, will answer queries;
B) Thuuga-el-Shembul, the Worldshaper, will too; but
C) Jhial-el-Avilona, the Stormchaser is dead except for her heart; and
D) Khor-el-Jiese, the Flamebringer will not respond to the heroes’ entreaties.
I always imagined (but never bothered to put into the saga) that Jiese ate the heart, realized he was being tempted by too much power, and in a brief moment of morality conjured a guardian to defend the Heart. Then he fled -- not to the Underdark like Trilla, but to another plane. Perhaps the Elemental Plane of Fire/Elemental Chaos. Perhaps one of the Nine Hells/Astral Dominions.
Maybe kalashtar were primitive people who witnessed the dragon's flight from this world, who allied with or defeated nightmare being spawned by the primordial spirit before he gained control of his power.
Perhaps a kalashtar PC in adventure 3 might sense an inexplicable connection to something beyond the fire seal in the steam tunnels beneath Seaquen.
(If I had been more closely involved with adventure 11 originally, in order to provide an avenue for post-campaign epic-level play, I probably wouldn't have put a demon lord down there, but rather the lair of Khor-el-Jiese.)
__________________ Ryan "RangerWickett" Nock
Author of the War of the Burning Sky serialized novel, free at EN World. Part Two, The Irons Have Tolled, now available.
Oh, and for those who don't know, Piratecat, the coolest man on EN World and the editor of the 4e version of WotBS, inspired the trillith, based on his own campaign, way back in the year 2000.
__________________ Ryan "RangerWickett" Nock
Author of the War of the Burning Sky serialized novel, free at EN World. Part Two, The Irons Have Tolled, now available.
IMC, set in Eberron's "past" on Sarlona, the Trillith are born of the Quori spirits and aim to keep Dal Quor attached to the continent. The Khalastar did not exist at the start of the campaign, but have started appearing... as they are Quori/Trillith who have chosen another path to not being destroyed...
I had not yet formalized the8bitdeity concept.. but am snagging for my game world immediately!
__________________
"Words take on strange and wonderful powers when they are written down.
Context and intonation disappear, and the words sit in a void to be construed according to the mood, intelligence and socio-political leanings of the reader."
--- Siri Agrell
Oh good lord, you guys are awesome. I can definitely work with this.
Spoiler:
I will probably end up going with the Trilliths being new to the physical world but not new to the dream world. I love the idea of jealousy of the Kalashtar for being 'real'. The8bitdiety, yeah I ran a very long mid level campaign in Eberron, well started 1st and went to gestalted 13thish. I love the campaign setting but unfortunately don't have the time or energy to do a full Eberron conversion justice. Maybe if I end up running this again, I have a group of friends online that would like me to DM through a virtual tabletop, but I am lacking time right now and I am waiting to see what WotC comes up with for online gaming.
Thanks again for all the ideas and thoughts. If you have more, please do continue sharing.
Cheers,
E
Last edited by Erywin; 21st August 2009 at 06:09 AM..
For any DM not setting the Campaign Saga on Eberron, it seems to me that there are two choices if you use Kalashtar in the default setting of the modules. (For any DM running WotBS set on Eberron, it seems like Primitive Screwhead and 8bitdeity have already figured out how to insert the trillith into Eberron's cosmology.) The two choices are:
1) The Kalashtar are an old race, with a history roughly similar to that of the Eberron version.
2) The Kalashtar are a young race, having only been in the world a few decades, and their history is bound up with the original of the Trillith.
Either choice makes your take on the Kalashtar very different, but there is something that remains the same: In either version, the difference between the two races not only comes down to jealousy, but to choices made by both the trillith and the ancestors of the kalashtar. They are not related to, or divided from, each other by accident, but by their own decisions. As follows:
Spoiler:
The Kalashtar were created when essentially trillith-like beings, sentient dream-creatures, chose to escape the dream realm by binding completely with humans, becoming one half of a new, unified soul (in Eberron, these humans were an order of monks). This is not a choice any published trillith has made: even the ones inhabiting mortal beings remain separate spirits, as evidenced by their descriptions and by the fact that you can perceive, when a trillith-bound sentient being dies, the essence of the trillith departing.
This makes sense, because the goal of the main body of trillith is not some peaceful symbiosis with mortals. They want to destroy the physical world and turn it into a world of dreams. They do not want to sacrifice their current, powerful, versatile mode of existence-- the want to sacrifice the world to accomodate them. Obviously, this is extremely selfish and destructive, which is why most of the trillith are villains.
The Kalashtar, by contrast, are born of dream-beings who chose to join the world of mortals as it was, seamlessly, without disrupting it in any way. This creates a cool tension between the two races, as two sides of the same coin-- one who appreciated the mortal world enough to sacrifice some of their power and immortal versatility to enter it on its own terms, and those who see the mortal world only as an impediment to their continued power. So, in a way, kalashtar are both siblings of the trillith, and also their natural enemies because their values are diametically opposed.
If you want to simplify it, there are "good" dream beings who chose to live as mortals in a realm they wanted to be a part of, and "evil" dream beings seeking to annihilate that world and replace it with one they can rule. It goes far beyond a mere rivalry-- as written by their authors, without even having to invent anything new, these two races are, by definition, on opposite sides of a war for the destiny of all sentient beings.
I have some thoughts on how to implement this with both a "young" race of Kalashtar, and an "old" race; I'll post those in a bit.
For any DM not setting the Campaign Saga on Eberron, it seems to me that there are two choices if you use Kalashtar in the default setting of the modules. (For any DM running WotBS set on Eberron, it seems like Primitive Screwhead and 8bitdeity have already figured out how to insert the trillith into Eberron's cosmology.) The two choices are:
1) The Kalashtar are an old race, with a history roughly similar to that of the Eberron version.
2) The Kalashtar are a young race, having only been in the world a few decades, and their history is bound up with the original of the Trillith.
Either choice makes your take on the Kalashtar very different, but there is something that remains the same: In either version, the difference between the two races not only comes down to jealousy, but to choices made by both the trillith and the ancestors of the kalashtar. They are not related to, or divided from, each other by accident, but by their own decisions. As follows:
Spoiler:
The Kalashtar were created when essentially trillith-like beings, sentient dream-creatures, chose to escape the dream realm by binding completely with humans, becoming one half of a new, unified soul (in Eberron, these humans were an order of monks). This is not a choice any published trillith has made: even the ones inhabiting mortal beings remain separate spirits, as evidenced by their descriptions and by the fact that you can perceive, when a trillith-bound sentient being dies, the essence of the trillith departing.
This makes sense, because the goal of the main body of trillith is not some peaceful symbiosis with mortals. They want to destroy the physical world and turn it into a world of dreams. They do not want to sacrifice their current, powerful, versatile mode of existence-- the want to sacrifice the world to accomodate them. Obviously, this is extremely selfish and destructive, which is why most of the trillith are villains.
The Kalashtar, by contrast, are born of dream-beings who chose to join the world of mortals as it was, seamlessly, without disrupting it in any way. This creates a cool tension between the two races, as two sides of the same coin-- one who appreciated the mortal world enough to sacrifice some of their power and immortal versatility to enter it on its own terms, and those who see the mortal world only as an impediment to their continued power. So, in a way, kalashtar are both siblings of the trillith, and also their natural enemies because their values are diametically opposed.
If you want to simplify it, there are "good" dream beings who chose to live as mortals in a realm they wanted to be a part of, and "evil" dream beings seeking to annihilate that world and replace it with one they can rule. It goes far beyond a mere rivalry-- as written by their authors, without even having to invent anything new, these two races are, by definition, on opposite sides of a war for the destiny of all sentient beings.
I have some thoughts on how to implement this with both a "young" race of Kalashtar, and an "old" race; I'll post those in a bit.
Yes and yes and yes! Pretty much what I was thinking of doing. Said much better than I could. Thanks and I look forward to hearing the rest of the ideas.
Yes and yes and yes! Pretty much what I was thinking of doing.
Yeah, I think a lot of this stuff suggests itself from a close reading of the modules and the Eberron material, so I'm not surprised you already had a similar plan. Really, I'm just trying to set out the ideas that seem simplest and most obvious.
As I said, I think there are two choices-- a young race of Kalashtar, and an old race. However you do it, there is one crucial point that must be kept in mind-- the Kalashtar must be created in such a way that they are NOT aware of the Trillith or their ultimate plan, otherwise much of the campaign saga is spoiled. The existing material in the mods (and Eberron) suggests a simple and useful way to do this for both an old and young version of the Kalashtar:
For an "old" race of Kalashtar=
Spoiler:
An ancient race could be the last remnants of the trillith-like creatures the Flamebringer Dragon created, in a variant of the original author Ryan Nock's post above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerWickett
In adventure 12, the PCs come across a trillith-like spirit called Time, which guards the Aquiline Heart. It takes the form of a ghostly dragon, and in my head I always thought that the creature was basically a trillith created by the Flamebringer Dragon.
Just as Trilla got weird psychic powers after having infernal and celestial energy poured into her, so too could the primordial fire spirit have gotten powers after consuming the flesh of the ancient air spirit, the Stormchaser Eagle.
I think the simplest way to use this is that, when the Dragon ate the Eagle's flesh, he instantly became a more powerful version of Trilla-- immediately his dreams began to become living beings, without his even having to be asleep. Given the power of the Flamebringer Dragon, he soon learned to discipline his mind, but not before giving birth to this first generation of dream-beings-- sort of proto-Trillith. Before fleeing the world for another plane, he set the most powerful of his unwitting creations, Time, as the guardian of the Aquilline Heart. Shortly after he left the world forever, leaving this newly spawned race to fend for itself.
Now, the Trillith were first born in Trilla's moments of fear and desperate desire for survival, while the proto-Trillith (I'm just calling them that for convenience) were born amid the Flamebringer's sudden remorse and need to discipline his mind. The mindset of their creators can explain the difference of these beings' view of the mortal world. While the Trillith have sought to keep Trilla asleep out of fear and are desperately pursuing a reckless plan to ensure their own survival, the proto-Trillith had no such urgent need. Being the children of a primordial god, their hold on existence was not quite so tenuous. Rather, they sought to understand themselves and the world into which they had been born. This seems seem like the simplest way to account for their being a generation of "trillith" before Trilla was empowered.
In order to make as much of the existing Kalashtar material useful as possible, I would do explain the race's existence this way: these primal Trillith visited certain primitive humans in their dreams, inspiring them with their own need for a greater understanding of the universe and desire to discipline their minds they had inherited from their progenitor. These humans founded the first contemplative orders (perhaps even the precursors of the Order of Echoed Souls and the Monastery of Two Winds). Eventually, one order of monks proceeded so far in their mastery of their own minds that they reached an agreement with the proto-Trillith to grant them existence in the physical world by offering to share their bodies with them symbiotically. The proto-Trillith agreed, and the monks became the original Kalashtar.
Though knowledge of their origin has been passed down through the generations, many of the details have not been, in order to protect the secret of the Aquilline Heart. For example, the existence of Time, the one "proto-Trillith" who chose not to incarnate, is not known to any modern day Kalashtar. For them, the tale of the Aquilline Heart is an important myth, but they can be no more certain of it than the people of Gate Pass are. They do know that they are the descendants of an order of monks who chose to share their bodies with beings made of pure dream. This version retains as much of the original Kalashtar origin as possible, but makes no significant change to the default setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerWickett
Perhaps a kalashtar PC in adventure 3 might sense an inexplicable connection to something beyond the fire seal in the steam tunnels beneath Seaquen.
This sense of connection might not only exhibit itself near the Pyromancer's Tomb, but also manifest as a very different, deja vu like sensation in the presence of trillith-bound humans like Kathor and Crystin-- beings very much like the kalashtar, but who have not taken the next step of fully merging their souls. Perhaps, if Crystin does not accompany the party, a kalashtar PC could experience her visions instead, due to his ancestral tie to Time.
For a "young" race of Kalashtar:
Spoiler:
Forty years ago, when the Trillith began to escape their Underdark prison, they soon discovered that they could bind themselves to mortal beings. Eventually, some of these Trillith realized that, by merging themselves completely with a human soul, they would be able to exist independently of the sleeping Trilla. However, they would pay a great price in power, becoming little more than enlightened humans. In addition, just as a mortal soul has no recollection of what it was before it was born in a human body, they would retain only a hazy memory of how they had come into existence.
For those Trillith who had grown to love and appreciate the world of mortals as it was, and who were unwilling to sacrifice it to retain their power, this was an easy choice. For Trillith who refused to become anything less than the magnificent, ever-changing, powerful incarnations of imagination they were, this was completely unacceptable. The world would change to suit them-- they would not change to suit the world. To them, the very notion was an abomination, and soon the trillith were split into two major factions, with a few-- those who did not wish to incarnate as humans but who also had no desire to destroy the world-- caught in the middle.
Once the more morally-conscious ("good") faction of Trillith had decided to completely incarnate as mortals, they sought willing participants, since permanently entering the bodies of humans would likely be an unwelcome violation. They began to appear in the dreams of certain enlightened mortals, seeking willing hosts. The first generation of true Trillith-symbiants were an order of (psionic?) monks whose philosophy prompted them to eagerly agree to sharing their forms with sentient dreams. The monks' only knowledge of the dream-beings came from the negotiations the human monks had with the Trillith before their incarnation, and from what they put together from their hazy and (for lack of a better word) dream-like memories of existence before. Even the name Trilla, and the word Trillith, were forgotten. This new race called itself the Kalashtar.
Since the two factions of Trillith were so at odds, the pro-incarnation faction had kept their plans secret. The monks they had negotiated with were part of an obscure order, whose monastery was hidden from the nations around them, so that even the Trillith scouts in the Lands had no idea these monks existed. To the anti-incarnation Trillith, the fate of their rival faction was a mystery-- one day, they were simply gone, and their investigations in the mortal world they were still struggling to understand yielded few clues.
Years passed. The second generation of Kalashtar, children born with half-dream, half-mortal souls, has grown to adulthood. With only a vague understanding of how they came to be in the world, and an even more uncertain sense of their place in it, these young Kalashtar have left the hidden location of their monastery (An island? A hidden valley or fog-shrouded mountain-top? Perhaps even somewhere in the Underdark?) to seek their fortunes in a world to which they only half belong, unknowing that elsewhere, their unincarnated brethren plot to destroy that world before they have the chance to know it.
As before, this approach seems to allow the most use of extant Eberron material without making any significant changes to the default world-- if anything, its central conceits are reinforced. Also as stated in the "old" version, PC Kalashtar (who would all be part of the second generation) could experience odd feelings of familiarity when meeting trillith-bound humans and an eerie connection to something beyond the fire seal in the steam tunnels beneath Seaquen, and even take the place of Crystin in experiencing visions of the future.
Wow, I had no idea detailed those suggestions would be. I guess the cosmology of the WotBS world just suggest a lot of possibilities to me.
At this point, I'm now desperate to see a Kalashtar PC in my own campaign.
Gah, just found out tonight that the guy playing the Kalashtar won't be joining us due to RL stuff. This kinda makes me upset I was really looking forward to having a Kalashtar in the group so I could use all these great ideas and really get them involved. Oh well, there might be the chance that our Warlord will switch to a cleric, she usually plays them but she ended up going Warlord in the end, we shall see how that goes.
On that note, if I did still have a Kalashtar in my group, I would probably go with Walker's 'young' race version.
Spoiler:
I especially like the idea of the island/mountain in fog sort of monastery. Also, having them being essentially the same race, just one decided to make their lives permanently in the real world, makes me happy inside.
So just ignore the last post. Apparently the guy is still playing, as he showed up yesterday and we cobbled together a Kalashtar Lazor Cleric for him to play. I am really looking forward to getting to play some of this stuff up. Unfortunately, Kathor retreated before they were able to meet him at the Ambush. Will keep you all posted on how it turns out.
Thanks for the help! Kind of wishing some more of the players were Kalashtar now, oh well. Oh last question is, how prominent are the Triliths throughout the campaign. And are their machinations majorly thwarted by the heroes?
I was really looking forward to having a Kalashtar in the group so I could use all these great ideas and really get them involved. Oh well, there might be the chance that our Warlord will switch to a cleric, she usually plays them but she ended up going Warlord in the end, we shall see how that goes.
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