Talk:L4W:The Transitive Isles

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Contents

Names

A list of things that need names, just for reference:

  • main island
  • starting city on the main island
  • island #2
  • island #3
  • island #5 / imperial outpost
  • the five, individually and together
I had originally considered having one of the five being from each of the isles.--Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


Imperium

Regarding the link to the Imperium: I feel like having the full Imperium attached feels very heavy, like this world is a little backwater and the real action is elsewhere. Perhaps instead there could be an Imperium outpost that was cut off from the Imperium proper in the minor sundering, and they have tried to build a home away from home with their own senate, legion, etc., but on a much smaller scale. Perhaps they might call themselves Imperium Filius (hopefully someone will correct my dog latin). They could be constantly trying to re-connect to the Imperium Mater, the original worlds-spanning empire, with some factions helping and others hindering, either because they enjoy their status as big fish in this smaller pond or because they want it to be them, and not some other faction, that finally makes contact with Imperium Mater. (Covaithe)

Pushing the Imperium further away would be a fine alteration to my mind. As for having them been here for a century? That would mean there are important NPCs... which is something people don't like (right?). Would players feel constrained by having a 100 years of history? (Does anyone want to write that?) After a hundred years I'd expect that they'd pretty much be completely absorbed into the main island culture.--Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't necessarily think so... Suppose you're a hotshot Imperial soldier or civil servant setting up an outpost on a strange world, with all the resources of the Imperium at your back, knowing that sooner or later the legions are going to come marching through the portal and take over this place and the yokels are all going to have to bow and scrape when you walk by. Then, something goes wrong. You lose contact. The enclave's leaders tell you to pretend nothing's wrong, because when the link is restored, there's no need for the locals ever to know it was gone for a while. After a while, when the portal doesn't come back, the outpost's governor calls you all together and gives a stirring speech about how, even though you're cut off and it may be a while before the Imperium's mages manage to restore the portal, he intends to keep order and discipline and run the outpost like it's part of the Imperium and not some sloppy barbarian amateur hour, by the gods. That leader holds things together by force of personality for maybe forty years before dying, keeping the outpost aloof and maintaining a culture as much like the Imperium as possible. At some point he or she convenes a Senate to help run things, since that's how civilized people govern. After the leader dies, things open up a bit and the outpost starts to mingle with the rest of the world a bit more, but there's still a strong cultural bias within the outpost that the Imperium represents civilization, and the rest of the world is a backward, inferior place. Maybe there are a few wars of conquest, but the Imperium outpost is still a relatively small power center in a big world, so they're still building their strength for now. Another fifty years after the original leader's death, most of the human off-worlders have died, and though a few members longer-lived races still survive, none of them were in leadership roles. The leaders who have risen in the ranks, while competent enough, lack the tradition and experience of their off-world predecessors. (no high-level NPCs) Covaithe 11:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
The thing is that this makes the Imperium a major force with a long history. If it's an outpost that arrived last year? It could be gone next year. PC actions could reasonably just dislodge the whole thing. It keeps things dynamic and fluid. You don't need to make up much, they can have monsters literally pouring out from under their feet (help! heroes!) you can have poor decision makers making bad decisions with the PCs acting as the bulwark against the darkness. My impression was that people wanted a PoL style setting, so that's sort of the direction I went. A big established base of democratic NPCs with their own military force takes away from Daunton (which is growing bigger and bigger). Also? I just don't think a Senate would ever be formed. There is one Senate in the Imperium, they rule all of it. There is no local representation. The center is everything; they send the bureaucrats and governors out to run the localities. Forming a Senate, for any reason, would be equivalent to declaring your independence.
I agree that we'd need to poll, but not yet. We've got bigger fish to fry right now.--Graf 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Here's another possibility to consider: What if they've arrived, thought the portal was stabilized, sent most of their troops back and then it was suddenly cut off? I think it's more dramatic (did they annoy one of the gods?). There are some sycophantic politicians and cronies who are suddenly way out of their depth but nothing else in terms of structure. Imperium characters would be "imperium characters" (and could easily come from a wider swath of the population) like stranded tourists, dignitaries, visiting priests become more viable.
Also a good possibility. It makes the Imperium/local distinction sharper. This could be another poll option, though given a choice I think I would vote for an older, more settled Imperium presence. A very recent Imperium incursion seems like it draws attention away from the five. I think that the five and their death, which opens the way for a bunch of new adventurers, should be the focus of recent history. Not that having the Imperium arrive while the five are around is unworkable, I think I just personally like it a bit better if the Imperium is established by the time the five kick the bucket. Covaithe 11:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not saying its good or bad just that there was major pushback when anything got developed, creating a senate, etc (no matter how little) could set that all off again. --Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Island #2, "Tortuga"

I love this idea. Being an ignorant lout, I looked up Tortuga on Wikipedia to figure out what the origin of this idea was, and in the entry there, my eye immediately landed on this sentence: "In 1645, in an attempt to bring harmony and control over the island, the acting French governor imported roughly 1,650 prostitutes, hoping to regularize the unruly pirates' lives." Genius! Covaithe 13:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Some mechanical concerns. Do we intend to allow monstrous races to start off? I'm not familiar enough with the rules myself to speculate on whether this is a good idea, but I suspect it's something that might have to wait for a few months while we get our heads wrapped around the rules. But it's a brilliant idea, and I'm totally saving one of my character slots for a hobgoblin pirate. Covaithe 13:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The Hanged Man / Drowned Man dichotomy is also very neat. I'm not sure about the idea that the portal beween the two is temporary or that violence sends you back. It seems to... "nerf" the idea a bit, to me. I think the great thing about the Drowned Man is that it's dangerous. If you go there, there should be risk involved. I think travel back and forth between the two should be... easy enough that any character is likely to be able to accomplish it, but hard enough not to be undertaken lightly (e.g. flitting back and forth to hurl insults at the minotaur in the corner and then disappearing). The three drinks mechanism is good; the dirty joke mechanism... While I love it and would totally run it that way FtF, it might run afoul of Eric's grandma, here. Covaithe 13:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The portal is meant to allow DMs to recruit from either of the two inns without killing themselves + roleplaying stuff (so if you want to hang out in one inn or the other but there is better roleplaying going on you can . To actually travel between the islands you could.... use a boat. There could be an official portal, but I like the idea that getting to the misty isle usually involves getting in a creaky little tub and spending a half an hour navigating through tight shoals.--Graf 00:50, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

NPCs as plot starters

Mayor Gunter Brunt is great. One of the things that chafed about L3W was that basically all adventures had to start with "someone walks into the tavern"; it would be nice to have more options for adventure hooks in L4W. Mayor Brunt sounds like just the sort of person who would found or be a patron for an adventurer's guild or two. Other ideas? (Covaithe)

I'm glad you like him. He's supposed to scale. So if the player base is passive (and aren't annoyed by having a patron) he's active, setting things up, etc. If they're fairly active? He's kinda sick and bed ridden; he gives encouragement, provides info and resources. If they're really active then a PC could run as mayor and replace him.--Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


Setting size

How big are the five initial islands? Rhode Island? Britain? Australia? I think we shouldn't go smaller than about Britain-sized. (Covaithe)

I was thinking small. Like the main island would be the size of Singapore, and the other islands would be even smaller. Mostly because people seemed to really want a small, lightly defined starting area and PoL-as-tiny-zone-of-monster-infested-wilderness.
Also, breaking it up into islands it makes it easy to adjust reality if DMs leave and areas begin to whither.
Just off the cuff thoughts I think they're all valid suggestions. Again my impression was that people wanted un/less developed and 'very small' starting area. No matter what happens initially you can always have more islands move closer, ancient portals like those on the isle of opposition open up, discover tunnels beneath the island, or travel to the depths, etc. --Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Character creation restrictions

I think that restrictions based on backstory are not helpful; they put the judges in the position of having to rule on fluff as well as mechanics when approving characters, which sounds like work. Also, we're trying to attract a good base of players. Lots of players would rather jump right into the roleplaying and let their character's story grow over time, rather than building backstory up front. I think that, for now at least, we should keep barriers to (player) entry as low as possible. (Covaithe)

Personally I agree. Backstory ruling is pretty annoying. On the other hand, if it's LEW tradition to limit characters then, I dunno, I figured that having it as an option with a poll would be better.--Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, I think restrictions on which races come from where are not worth it. I like the idea that certain areas are dominated by certain races, but there are always exceptions. Why should it be impossible for an Eladrin character to come from the Vale of Bone? Even if there are no Eladrin enclaves there, we shouldn't rule out the stranded orphan, the stranger-with-mysterious-past, etc. (Covaithe)

Good points. Again, I personally tend to agree, and I offered a bunch of low/no restriction choices. But more choices will lead to more weirdness and I think that if there are "weirdness concerns" then we ought to poll it out.--Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Not sure how to do this wiki thing. I'm sort of learning as I go along. But, I'm wondering what this means "to be from the main island your character must know one of arcana, religion or history" They have to have the skill? If so there are race/class combinations that are not possible without using your 1st level feat for Skill Training. Dragonborn Ranger, Dwarf Rouge, Eladrin Fighter Ranger Rogue, Elf Fighter Ranger Rogue, Half-Elf Fighter Ranger Rogue, Halfing Rogue, Tiefling Ranger. The only skill that Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue all have in common is Athletics.

Also, what about making Island #2 have Tortuga on it? A fantasy version of course but something like "The Wickedest City in the Isles"? --TheGoblinKing-10970 13:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah; you have it right. It's not an idea I'm terribly fond of, either. I needed something to use as a "poll point" regarding character restrictions. The "you must add to the fluff of the island requirement to be from the island" is hard to arbitrate. Having a "hard cost" seemed like a sort of compromise. It's fairly weak though (annoys people while adding little in terms of story). --Graf 00:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
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