The paladin is the epitome of the holy knight in shining armor. A
beacon of heroic Good. Yet in the core books... it seems like there's
no reason to bother with her past level 6, especially since the Cleric
can do what she does just as well (Actually, better). However, this
shall be the case no longer!
It should be said that if you're the sort of person who thinks core
material is all perfect and good and balanced, that Fighters can stand
side by side with Wizards at level 20 and such nonsense, this is not
the fix for you. However, if you do see the need for rectifying balance
and making the paladin a worthwhile class right up to high levels with
greater power, versatility, *and* flavor, then you may well have found
the solution you've been looking for!
This variant is mostly the same as the base paladin at lower levels,
since the paladin is pretty much fine there. It continues to increase
the power of Lay on Hands and allow it to use up some of its healing
points to cure various other ailments (and just throwing out the Remove
Disease ability). It changes smite/day into smite/encounter, since the
high level paladin *should* be so badass that she smites all day. It
gives the paladin switchable auras to support the party. It also
rebuilds the paladin's spell list and gives her more spells per day. At
level 5, it allows the paladin to choose from a variety different
specializations instead of just getting a special mount (which is now
part of the mounted specialization), allowing for a variety of
different and unique styles. Further, the paladin has access to a new
type of feat, the "Smite Feat," which allows the paladin to expend
smite attempts in order to create a variety of other effects, enabling
her to use her smite evil ability to cover a variety of versatile
circumstances and perform various maneuvers.
The paladin is now a more powerful force in melee (and not just a
couple rounds per day!), who uplifts her comrades with her heroic and
divine prescence, and an effective backup healer.
This class is still not on the power level of well-played full
spellcasters (Particularly at higher levels), and it is not intended to
be. However, it *is* relevant at higher levels, and is meant to be
balanced against the classes generally regarded as well built and
balanced, such as the Rogue, Warblade, Psychic Warrior, decent prestige
classes, or... monsters of the appropriate CR. It's meant to be in the
upper-middle range of class balance.
Finally, this is a work in progress, and more material will be added in the future.
And without further ado... I offer you...
The Paladin Hit Die: d10 BAB: Full Saves: Good Fort, Bad Reflex, Bad Will Skill Points at 1st level: (2+int modifier) x4 Skill Points at each additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier Class Skills: The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability
for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha),
Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History)
(Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion)
(Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and
Sense Motive (Wis).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all
simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and
light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura of Good (Ex)
The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level. It is not a switchable aura.
Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.
Smite Evil (Su)
Once per encounter, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal
melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll
and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. This damage is not
multiplied on a critical, or by any other multiplier that would not
count "bonus dice." If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that
is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up
for that encounter.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may
smite evil one additional time per encounter, as indicated on Table:
The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per encounter at 20th level. An
encounter is considered over when you do no strenuous action for 5
minutes or more.
Divine Grace (Su)
At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if
any) on all saving throws, up to a maximum of her class level.
Lay on Hands (Su)
Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher
can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. She gains a pool
of healing, which allows her to heal a total number of hit points of
damage equal to her paladin level × her Charisma bonus. A paladin may
choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t
have to use it all at once. A Paladin may fill this pool with a full
minute (10 rounds) of concentration and prayer. Refreshing the pool
brings the Paladin's pool of healing back up to the maximum (Paladin
level * Charisma Bonus). She may fill her healing pool a number of
times per day equal to 1 + half her Charisma modifier (rounded down).
Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to
deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way
requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack
of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of
points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
The target may make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 Paladin Level+Cha) to negate
the damage.
The paladin's Lay on Hands gains additional capabilities as she
progresses in level as a paladin. The paladin may use all additional
effects in conjunction with healing, as long as she spends enough
points.
Switchable Auras
All auras except Aura of Good are switchable as a move action. You may
have only one aura other than Aura of Good active at a given time.
These auras function while the paladin is conscious, but not while the
paladin is unconscious or dead. The paladin's auras only affect her
allies, and not the paladin herself.
Aura of Courage (Ex)
At 3rd level, the paladin may exude an aura of courage that inspires
her allies. Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on
saving throws against fear effects. Aura of Courage's bonuses scale by
level. At level 8, allies gain +6 to saves against fear, and a +1
morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 13, allies gain +8 to saves
against fear, and a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 18,
allies gain immunity to fear, and +3 morale bonus to attack rolls. This
is a switchable Aura.
Hero's Courage (Ex)
Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Hero's Courage
A paladin has no fear
Divine Health (Ex)
At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Turn Undead (Su)
When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to
turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal
to 2 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of her level.
Specialization
Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin may choose any of three abilities
representing three different specializations: Charging Smite
(Aggressive), Special Mount (Mounted), and Argent Bastion (Defensive)
Specializations
(Sidebar) Behind the Scenes: Specializations
Specializations are designed in order to emphasize a paladin's specific
fighting style, or to make certain choices more viable (For example,
fighting with a sword and shield is typically a suboptimal choice of
armament compared to a two-handed weapon). DMs:
If a player in your campaign has an idea for a particular esoteric
fighting style or whatever that might otherwise be less than viable,
but is nonetheless interesting and supported by his character's flavor,
you may consider designing a Specialization in order to facilitate this
choice. Just decide what abilities it grants (usually 4, granted at
level 5, 8, 11, and 15) and what bonus feats it makes available (as a
rule of thumb, keep it to 5). Suddenly, the paladin designed around
throwing weapons (perhaps the Paladin from Hellsing who throws holy
bayonets, for example) becomes viable and more fun to play!
In fact, you could even create a unique specialization for each church
or faith within your campaign setting, guaranteeing that paladins of
every faith will be even more unique! Essentially, it can be an
efficient medium for creating class variants on the paladin, allowing
new concepts without designing a full PrC or anything.
Argent Bastion
The paladin gains a number of abilities as she rises in level.
Argent Bastion
Sir Merrick Doul, a high level paladin with the Argent Bastion specialization.
Shield Ward
The Paladin gains Shield Ward as a bonus feat, even if the paladin does not meet the prerequisites.
Cover (Ex)
Once per round, as long as the paladin is wielding a shield (and is not
flatfooted or otherwise prevented from taking action), the paladin may
interpose herself between an adjacent ally and an incoming attack as an
immediate action. The paladin absorbs all damage the damage from this
single attack, and any additional effects it might have (such as
something requiring a save, etc). You must decide to use this ability
after the attacker determines the attack has succeeded but before she
rolls damage.
Retribution
The paladin gains Retribution* as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
Divine Wall (Su)
As long as the paladin wields a shield, her square blocks line of
effect for all effects. For example, if allies hid behind the paladin
when a dragon used its breath weapon from the opposite side, it would
only hit the paladin.
Divine Wall
Charging Smite
As PHB II variant.
Charging Smite
Jumal d'Arrah, a paladin with the Charging Smite specialization, proves more than a match for this Slaad
Special Mount (Sp)
The paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and
loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is
usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a
Small paladin).
Aa full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the
celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of
a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin’s level. The mount
immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains until
dismissed. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned,
though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.
Each time the mount is called, it appears with the same hp it had
previously, as well as any other effects it may have had (though some
may have worn off because of their duration). Whether the mount is with
you or not, things like poison run their course. The mount also appears
wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling
a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.
When the paladin rests for 8 hours (or long enough to restore his spells), the mount is restored to full hp.
Should the paladin’s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving
behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon
another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level,
whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the
dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on
attack and weapon damage rolls.
The Paladin's Mount
Alhandra, a high level paladin with the Special Mount specialization
The paladin’s mount is superior to a normal mount of its kind and
has special powers, as described below. The standard mount for a Medium
paladin is a heavy warhorse, and the standard mount for a Small paladin
is a warpony. Another kind of mount, such as a riding dog (for a
halfling paladin) or a Large shark (for a paladin in an aquatic
campaign) may be allowed as well.
A paladin’s mount is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the
purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an
animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats).
Code:
Paladin Bonus Natural Strength
Level HD Armor Adj. Adj. Int Special
5th +2 +4 +1 6 Empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws
8th +4 +6 +2 7 Improved speed
11th +6 +8 +3 8 Command creatures of its kind
15th +8 +10 +4 9 Spell resistance
Paladin’s Mount Basics
Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount’s kind, but make
changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics
summarized on the table and described below.
Bonus HD
Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution
modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mount’s base attack and
base save bonuses. A special mount’s base attack bonus is equal to that
of a cleric of a level equal to the mount’s HD. A mount has good
Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals
the animal’s HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for
bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
Natural Armor Adj.
The number on the table is an improvement to the mount’s existing natural armor bonus.
Str Adj.
Add this figure to the mount’s Strength score.
Int
The mount’s Intelligence score.
Empathic Link (Su)
The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up
to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mount’s eyes, but they
can communicate empathically.
Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to
an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his
familiar.
Improved Evasion (Ex)
When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw
for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful
saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.
Share Spells
At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.
The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the
benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than
instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5
feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the
paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast
a spell with a target of "You" on her mount (as a touch range spell)
instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if
the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mount’s type
(magical beast).
Share Saving Throws
For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus
or the paladin’s, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own
ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on
saves that the master might have.
Improved Speed (Ex)
The mount’s speed increases by 10 feet.
Command (Sp)
Once per day per two paladin levels of its master, a mount can use this
ability to command other any normal animal of approximately the same
kind as itself (for warhorses and warponies, this category includes
donkeys, mules, and ponies), as long as the target creature has fewer
Hit Dice than the mount. This ability functions like the command spell,
but the mount must make a DC 21 Concentration check to succeed if it’s
being ridden at the time. If the check fails, the ability does not work
that time, but it still counts against the mount’s daily uses. Each
target may attempt a Will save (DC 10 + ˝ paladin’s level + paladin’s
Cha modifier) to negate the effect.
Spell Resistance (Ex)
A mount’s spell resistance equals its master’s paladin level + 5. To
affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a
caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the
mount’s spell resistance.
A paladin with the Special Mount specialization faces off with a Blackguard
Panacean Touch (Su)
Upon reaching 6th level, whenever a paladin expends at least 10 points
of healing from her lay on hands she may remove poison from any person
she touches, and whenever she spends at least 20 points of healing she
may remove disease from any person she touches. This is in addition to
hit points restored.
Bonus Feats
At 7th level, and again at 14th level, the Paladin gains a bonus feat.
At each such oppurtunity, a paladin may choose any Smite feat*, or a
feat drawn from the following list. If a feat is labelled with
"Aggressive", "Defensive", or "Mounted", then that feat may only be
chosen by a paladin of the corresponding specialization.
Intimidating Strike (Aggressive) (PHB II)
Power Attack (Aggressive)
Cleave (Aggressive)
Great Cleave (Aggressive)
Weapon Focus (Aggressive)
Aura of Devotion (Ex)
Upon reaching 8th level, the Paladin may exude an Aura of Devotion.
While this ability is active, the Paladin grants a +1 morale bonus to
AC to all allies within 30 feet. At level 13, this bonus increases to
+2. At level 18, this bonus increases to +3. This is a switchable aura.
Revitalizing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 9th level The Paladin can use her Lay on Hands ability to
remove ability damage from a person she touches when she heals at least
5 points per point of ability damage to be removed (It is possible for
only a portion of ability damage to be restored if the paladin does not
spend enough to cure them all). This is in addition to hit points
restored.
Vigilance (Su)
Upon reaching 11th level, the Paladin's ability to detect evil
increases. When she uses her Detect Evil ability, the area of effect is
a 60-foot radius centered on the Paladin, rather than a 60-foot cone.
Refreshing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 12th level Paladin can remove exhaustion,
fatigue,sickness, and nausea with a touch whenever she spends at least
10 points from her lay on hands pool. This is in addition to hit points
restored.
Aura of Resolve (Ex)
Beginning at 13th level, the paladin gains Aura of Resolve. While this
ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one
Fortitude save every round to any ally within a 30ft radius of her. The
decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the
result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.
Break Enchantment (Su)
Beginning at 16th level, the Paladin can break an enchantment with a
touch whenever she expends at least 40 points of healing from her lay
on hands ability. Her caster level for the purpouse of this effect is
equal to her paladin caster level, just as if she had actually cast the
Break Enchantment spell. This is in addition to hit points restored.
Constant Vigilance (Su)
Upon reaching 17th level, the Paladin is always vigilant for any signs
of Evil, and her eyes begin to glow with an inner light. Her Detect
Evil no longer requires any concentration to maintain, and has an
unlimited duration.
Aura of Faith (Ex)
At 18th level, the paladin gains Aura of Faith. While this ability is
active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Will save every
round to any one ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to
reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is
declared. This is a switchable Aura.
Energizing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 19th level, Paladin may remove negative levels from a
subject whenever she spends at least 15 points from her lay on hands
pool per negative level the target is afflicted with (It is possible
for only a portion of negative levels to be restored if the paladin
does not spend enough to cure them all). This is in addition to hit
points restored.
A Hero Never Falls (Ex)
At 20th level, the paladin's sheer strength of will drives her on when
death would claim lesser men. Once per day when a paladin would be
reduced to 0 or less hp or otherwise killed (such as by a death
effect), she instead is reduced to 1 hp. If the paladin would be killed
by having an ability score reduced to zero, that score is instead
reduced to 1.
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a Paladin gains the ability to
cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the Paladin
spell list. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance
(see below).
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Wisdom score equal to
at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw
against an Paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Paladin’s
Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of
spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is
given on Table: Paladin Spells Per Day. In addition, she receives bonus
spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. When Table: Paladin
Spells Per Day indicates that the Paladin gets 0 spells per day of a
given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be
entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level. The Paladin
does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a
cleric does.
A Paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she
cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A
paladin may prepare and cast any spell on the Paladin spell list,
provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose
which spells to prepare during her daily prayer.
Through 3rd level, a Paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is her Paladin level minus 3.
A paladin must be of Lawful Good alignment, and abide by a higher
standard of morals and honor than the average Good-aligned person.
Indeed, she is the paragon of heroic Good, drawn to a higher cause.
Truly she is a person of high calibre, moral and otherwise.
There is a code of conduct presented in the PHB, but it really is
better classified as an example of a generic paladin's vows and code.
However, in your game being a paladin may mean quite a different thing
altogether! After all, not all settings are the same, nor are all
paladins. They serve various causes and deities, and the nature of Good
and Evil is not always so stereotypically straightforward in all
settings. Your code should represent the beliefs of your church or
cause or whatever it is you, as a paladin, fight for!
Talk with your DM about what it means to be a paladin in your
campaign, and the implications of it. If you are the DM, consider this,
and what it really to be the paragon of good in your campaign. It
should be noted that a single mistake or lack of perfection should not
make a paladin fall. Indeed, is it not the lack of perfection and
ultimately human(oid) nature of such a heroic figure that makes him all
the more endearing and, truly, notable in calibre? After all, any old
celestial can be perfect, but a man has to work for it.
Instead, the paladin falls from grace if she grossly
violates her code (as stated, yet all too often overlooked, in the PHB.
This means that some minor infraction would *not* make the Paladin
fall), or if she changes alignment from Lawful Good. Your alignment
should be your overall personality and outlook, not the result of the
last action you took (although that last action *could* be considered
to grossly violate the paladin's code, of course. The paladin's code is
not synonymous with alignment). It should be extremely rare for a
single act to alter your alignment, and it certainly shouldn't be so if
the act was not done with wrongful intentions. Alignment changes should
usually be the result of fairly consistent behavior of a character.
Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good or grossly violates her code
loses all paladin spells and abilities. She may not progress any
farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and
advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character.
Sidebar: PrC Adaptation
Of course, it would seem that existing Paladin PrCs wouldn't fit well
with the Rebalanced Paladin. One might ask "Hey, how does it make sense
to get 2/encounter smites then get 1/day?" Fortunately for you, the
Rebalanced Paladin was designed with easy adaptation in mind! For many
prestige classes, adaptation is actually quite simple. Spellcasting
doesn't need to be altered, as it continues to stay at "+1 per caster
level." Fixing smite progressions is as simple as saying "You gain it
per encounter, instead of per day." Those are the mainstays of the
Rebalanced Paladin's power, and PrCs tend to give good benefits to make
up for the loss of auras and Lay on Hands/specialization advancement.
This is most of the work already for many paladin PrCs. In the case of
abilities that are very similar to Smite Evil, smite feats should
generally be allowed to apply (e.g. other Smite (alignment) feats).
Indeed, even if the flavor is something like "Smite Good," it is a
simple matter to reflavor them all saying "unholy" instead of "holy."
If a class offers Lay on Hands advancement, just let it count as
paladin levels for the sake of adding curative abilities, and replace
the Lay on Hands text for the Prestige Class with the Lay on Hands
description here.
For a few, however, you may want to make some adjustments. For example,
you may want to say that a paladin PrC focused on leadership continues
to advance auras, or you might decide that an aggressive PrC should
allow the paladin to continue to advance his Charging Smite ability.
These really are fairly minor adjustments that aren't strictly
nescessary, and really are things you should be able to handle as a DM.
___
*All abilities listed with a * refer to a new (or revised) feat here.
New Feats
Feats
Sidebar: Behind the Scenes: Smite Feats
Smites feats are designed to give added options and versatility for the
paladin during combat. Quite simply, more options makes combat more
dynamic, interesting, and fun for the player. For the most part, Smite
feats are weaker than a simple normal Smite Evil attack when fighting a
single evil foe, and this is completely intentional. Smite feats are
instead useful in other situations. All smite feats work on foes of any
alignment unless otherwise noted, and as such help the paladin to
contribute more in combats against things like constructs, oozes, or an
angry tyrannosaurus. In the case of Conviction, for example, you get
basically half the benefit of Smite Evil against any foe. Additionally,
certain smite feats are more useful than a smite in unique situations,
allowing a paladin to be more effective in more situations. For
example, against multiple foes, Judgment can carve a swath through
weaker enemies.
Smite feats are designed much like maneuvers in Tome of Battle. Most of
them are related to a single, offensive attack with an instantaneous
effect, or at least one that doesn't last for more than one round. The
idea is basically that things like timed buffs are the domain of Divine
feats. If you intend to design your own smite feats, keep a few things
in mind:
1) Smite feats probably shouldn't have a duration that lasts very long,
and should be related to some sort of action directly related to combat.
2) Smite feats should generally be weaker than a normal Smite Evil attack against a single evil foe.
New Feat Type: [Smite]
A smite feat allows you to channel the holy energy used to smite evil enemies iin new ways, expanding your options in combat.
All smite feats require the user to expend uses of their Smite Evil
ability. Only one use of Smite Evil may be applied to any single
attack. All Smite feats are considered Supernatural abilities, and
cannot be used in any situation that such abilities would not function
(such as in an antimagic field)
Celestial Lightning [Smite]
A fearsome bolt of lightning streaks from the sky and strikes your
upraised weapon, arcing out in all directions and striking down
surrounding foes. Prerequisite: Holy Wrath (Electricity), Smite 3/encounter Benefit: By expending a smite attempt as a full-round action,
you raise your weapon above your head, and a lightning bolt strikes
your weapon before arcing off in all directions to hit other targets.
This is treated as a Chain Lightning Spell, with a caster level equal
to your level in smiting classes. The weapon is considered the initial
target (but takes no damage). Note: Alternatively, the player may decide that the initial
target is any other piece of equipment, or the character's body, as
this is purely a flavor element.
Consecration [Smite]
You channel fearsome holy energy into your weapon and slams it into the
earth, unleashing the stored energy into the ground and uplifting the
earth around you in a powerful shockwave. Prerequisite: Smite 4/encounter, Str 15 Benefit: As a standard action, by expending a use of your smites
per encounter, you can unleash a powerful surge of holy energy into the
ground. You immediately make a bull rush attempt against all enemies
within a 30ft radius of you, for the purposes of this attack, you are
considered one size category larger than normal, and add your Charisma
to the check rather than strength. Enemies may move further than 5 feet
as if you had bullrushed and moved with them. Additionally, all enemies
affected take damage equal to twice your Charisma modifier.
Conviction [Smite]
Holy energy fills you with righteous conviction, driving you forward in battle. Prerequisite: Smite 1/encounter, Hero's Courage class feature, Cha 15 Benefit: By expending a use of your Smite Evil ability, you gain
a morale bonus on your attack roll equal to your Charisma bonus for a
single attack.
Divine Cross [Smite] Prerequisite: Two Weapon Fighting, Smite 1/encounter Benefit: When you are wielding two weapons (or a double weapon)
and use a smite attempt, you may instead make a smite attempt with both
one primary weapon attack and one offhand attack, but only expend one
use of your smites per encounter.
Holy Wrath [Smite]
You summon holy energy in order to smite your foes. Prerequisite: Smite 2/encounter, Cha 13 Benefit: As a standard action, you may expend a smite Evil
attempt in order to create a burst of holy energy that damages a single
target within Close range (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels). The energy deals
damage equal to 1d6 per level of smiting class, and the target get a
reflex save (DC 10+1/2 paladin level+Cha) for half damage. Half of the
damage dealt is of either Fire, Electricity, or Cold damage (Chosen at
the time the feat is taken), and the other half is pure divine energy,
which is not subject to energy resistance. Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, the
paladin's holy wrath may correspond to a different element. For
example, a paladin could take the Holy Wrath (Electricity) and then
take Holy Wrath (Fire).
Inspiration [Smite]
You inspire your allies by channeling a divine presence. Prerequisite: Smite 2/encounter, Cha 15, switchable aura class feature Benefit: You may expend a smite attempt as a swift action to
activate this ability. For the next round, the Paladin's switchable
aura's radius is tripled, and any bonuses are doubled. In the case of a
benefit that may normally be used once per round, it may be used twice
this round.
Judgment [Smite]
You channel pure holy energy into your weapon, and unleash a holy
explosion with a swing, hurtling forward in a line through your enemies. Prerequisite: Cha 15, Smite 3/encounter, Holy Wrath Benefit: You may expend a use of your Smite Evil ability to use
this ability as a standard action. You call forth a violent burst of
holy energy, dealing 1d6 sacred damage per level of smiting class in a
5 foot wide line. The length of the line is equal to 25+5 feet/2 levels
of smiting class. Targets get a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 paladin
level+Cha) for half damage.
Reckoning [Smite]
You channel powerful holy energy into an overwhelmingly forceful blow that stuns your enemy. Prerequisite: Str 13, Smite 2/encounter Benefit: You may expend one use of your Smite Evil as a standard
action in order to make a single melee attack. An enemy struck by this
attack must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 level+Cha modifier) or be dazed
for one round (In addition to taking normal damage from the attack).
Retribution [Smite]
You channel holy energy into your shield which is unleashed when you are attacked. Prerequisite: Smite Evil 3/encounter, Shield Specialization Benefit: As an immediate action when an opponent attempts to
strike you, you may expend a use of your Smite Evil to add your
Charisma bonus to your Shield Bonus to AC against this attack. If the
opponent's attack misses, they are automatically knocked back 5 feet by
the unleashed holy energy and take damage equal to twice your Charisma
modifier. The movement provokes an attack of oppurtunity from anyone
but you.
Vindication [Smite]
By channelling holy energy into your weapon, it can cross the nexus between planes and harm ethereal foes. Prerequisite: Cha 13, Smite Evil 1/encounter Benefit: You may expend a Smite Evil use to give all attacks for 1 round the benefit of the Ghost Touch weapon enhancement.
A paladin with the Vindication feat is an able ghost hunter
___
Holy Arrow [General]
Your presence and faith guide your arrows true. Your faith is not limited to the single-minded close combat of your peers. Prerequisite: Smite Evil 1/encounter, Point Blank Shot Benefit: You may use the Smite (alignment) ability with ranged weapons.
Extra Lay on Hands [General]
You are a focused healer, and are able to draw upon more holy power in order to heal yourself and your allies. Prerequisite: Wis 13, Lay on Hands class feature Benefit: You may refresh your Lay on Hands pool one extra time per day.
Extra Smiting [General]
You can make more smite attacks. Prerequisites: Smite ability, base attack bonus +4 Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain one extra smite per encounter. Note: This replaces the Extra Smiting feat written in Complete Warrior, which does not apply to the Rebalanced Paladin
First of all, this is the best fix for any class I have seen on these forums. -danisheraser
I am IMPRESSED! This is one of the best balanced classes I've ever seen and meshes seamlessly with it's flavour. -Obsidian_Jaerc
I just want you guys to know that I am playing a paladin using you
guys' version, and it's just awesome. Paladins are actually fun to play
now! -Xavorin
OWA, I declare you the lord of all badassness. -Lord_Gareth
Consider this yoinked -Thwyvylyn
I like this rebuild; it gives a maligned class a much-needed boost in power. -CryoSilver
...you have fixed the original Paladin to what it should be... I would
love to play this Paladin. Holy, healy, and the protector of the
innocent. -Aramek
This thread totally warrants the explanation point in its title. -Optimator
Three cheers to you, gentlemen!!!! -Carnivorous_Bean
The abilities themselves are great, and seem to give a great boost to a class that needed it. -igotsmeakabob!!
Per-encounter abilities! Nice touch!! -sigma999
Wow, great job. -Antarx
Love it love it love it. A player of mine has seen it and also loves it. -Evil DM Mk3
I really really like this. -Riodrian
I find the rebalanced paladin quite perfect -Aryxbez
A lot cooler then the standard one. The lvl 20 ability in particular is awesome(the image actually gave me goosebumps!) -Einvaldurinn_mikli
I plan on using it in my campaign. -HamHam
Love the class... Your paladin is balanced and lacks any apparent
'jumping out points' that the original paladin was riddled with.
-Banantalis_the_Green
I'm really excited to play this Paladin now. -Optimator
For some reason I feel like playing a Paladin... -Prince Indirian
Good job. One for OneWinged4ngel One for Seerow -Otto the Bugbear
You've just brought the paladin back to his old, heroic glory. I cannot thank you enough, Angel. -theotherdraxen
THIS IS HELLA GOOD!!! -Marcotic
This paladin rocks! -EyelessBlonde
I absolutely love it! I would run this over the normal Pally any day of the week. -Repeekluos
This variant is fantastic and I'm going to use it in my campaign. -Arturius1
I to your very excellent work. -oXavorin
OWA, I applaud you. Paladins are HEROES once more. -Lord_Gareth
For OneWinged4ngel and Seerow: a
each. This is by far the best fix for any class ever, and I have
finally found a class I enjoy playing. The paladin was one of the
classes needing a fix, and you two have done a masterful job. This link
will be going in my sig, for sure! -Xavorin
WOW! This is everything I wanted in a Paladin that was just never there. This is totaly perfect in every way. -MaceLeonheart
Fao OneWinged4ngel our fallen paladin (level 6) has just got his powers
back. As a prezzie I gave him your reworked paladin. Convinced the DM
to let him have it and he and I would just like to say thanks for your
hard work. (He’s well chuffed! – his exact words were – I actually feel
like a paladin now!) -Grogmir
First, let me say that I am thoroughly impressed with your paladin
remix. I don't say this often. It looks and feels exactly like it
should, while simultaneously solving essentially any issue anyone could
take with the class. Spectacular job, both of you! (If you want, you
can quote me on that.) -Tempest Stormwind
And much more...
___
This class has been a collaborative effort between Seerow and I, so he deserves credit as well.
Additionally, I'd like to thank everyone whose input and feedback went into the development of this class.
I encourage you all to be honest and straightforward in critiques. Be
brutal, because I want this to be as damn near perfect as I can make it.
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 09-03-07 at 07:52 PM.
Stuff will be added here as I see it come up, or if you bring it to my
attention and ask for it to be added. The things listed in this section
are mostly supplemental material made for the Rebalanced Paladin
designed by people other than Seerow and I, and are not "officially"
endorsed. Questions about 3rd party material should be directed to the
individual creators, not to me or Seerow, and we don't really do
anything to enforce balance or whatever with them.
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 08-30-07 at 05:14 AM.
Alright, basically... this needed a new thread. The first thread was
getting onto 700 replies, and was getting overly large and unwieldy. On
top of that, most of the thread is outdated (as most of the replies
refer to OLDER versions of the Rebalanced Paladin), and the sheer size
of it was sorta discouraging for new people to post and contribute new
ideas and feedback. Additionally, it didn't have any reserved posts at
the start... and I ran out of space to post stuff.
At this point, the Rebalanced Paladin is, for the most part, done. At
this point, it looks like I'm just going to be adding more feats,
updating the spell list with supplements, doing some minor tweaks, that
sort of thing. I really need the extra space though, because I'm going
to come out with things like some adjusted PrCs, and the Blackguard.
Yet again, for the most part only recent posts and this first page are
relevant, and you don't really need to read the large number of other
posts.
What's to come soon:
Some minor adjustments (Holy Wrath, Cover, Turn Undead, skills, and
vigilance), possibly replacing Charging Smite, and adding the
Blackguard.
-Signed,
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 08-30-07 at 05:14 AM.
Hey Onewing here is a modified version of Vindication that includes a modified version of that enhancement I suggested.
Vindication [Smite] By channelling holy energy into your weapon, it can cross the nexus
between planes to harm incorpreal foes and even drag them into the
material plane.
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Smite Evil 1/encounter
Benefit: You may expend a Smite Evil use to give all attacks for 1
round the benefit of the Ghost Touch weapon enhancement. Once during
this round apon a successful attack against an incorpreal foe you may
force that opponent to make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladin level +
Cha) or become corpreal for 1d4+1 rounds.
Note: If using this feat while incorpreal, a successful attack can be used to force a corpreal opponent incorpreal.
I was thinking of going with something like this... pulling the
person onto your plain and keeping him there for a bit. Possibly even a
sort of Dimensional Anchor effect (Which would certainly make it good)
I
have a lot of quarrels with the concept of only-LG-paladin. But you've
done quite an impressive job (a bit overpowered, but an impressive job
nontheless). Just consider revising 'Vigilance' into 'Freedom of
Movement' (Travel domain granted ability).
One thing. You forgot to describe 'Aura of Protection'.
I
have a lot of quarrels with the concept of only-LG-paladin. But you've
done quite an impressive job (a bit overpowered, but an impressive job
nontheless). Just consider revising 'Vigilance' into 'Freedom of
Movement' (Travel domain granted ability).
Could you please demonstrate how it is overpowered? I'm always
willing to change anything that seems to be too powerful, and indeed
have altered this a lot during the creation. No offense or anything,
but I find that MANY claims of overpowered are... rather
unsubstantiated. This is, of course, fully intended to be more powerful
than core melee classes, but that's because those classes are, at least
in the opinion of many, underpowered. My Pally's supposed to be more on
the level with things like the Psychic Warrior or Tome of Battle
Classes or the Rogue in usefulness.
Quote:
One thing. You forgot to describe 'Aura of Protection'.
Thank you for catching this! That's actually a typo, and should read "Aura of Devotion." Fixed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis
Are you still planning on adding the two weapon fighting Specialization?
Probably. Seerow didn't care for the idea too much, but I think
that enough people have been asking for it that I will be adding it
anyways.
__________________
Apparently I'm a Lawful Neutral Human Bard. Guess I'm not levelling up any time soon.
[Str 8 Dex 17 Con 12 Int 15 Wis 14 Cha 14] **The Rebalanced Paladin** The Iron Heart Champion-- a PrC I made. Check it out.
I still like this quite a bit. A few qualms remain.
Quote:
Half of the damage dealt is of either Fire, Electricity, or Ice damage
(Chosen at the time the feat is taken), and the other half is pure
divine energy, which is not subject to energy resistance.
Cold damage, I suspect.
Code:
Honestly, I still find all the spells to be too much, on top of all the other cool stuff they get.
Why the reduction in level of break enchantment and restoration?
Freedom of movement seems like a buff that others should cast on the paladin. Spell immunity also seems strange for the paladin to have.
Banishment doesn't seem like the paladins cup of tea. Why not simply kill the evil outsider? I am not pleased with flame strike, seeing it as the purview of clerics to call heavenly flames. Blatent evocation isn't needed for this melee character, especially given the Smite feats. The same goes for Heroes' Feast.
Heal is incredibly powerful for a character who already has Lay on Hands and access to all the other Cure (mass) spells. Overkill and potentially (though I hate this word) unbalanced.
I'm a bit iffy on Raise Dead. By the time paladin's get it, it would be useless to a party of that level.
Righteous Might seems like overkill as well. It made up for the clerics 3/4 BAB in melee combat. When applied to the paladin it's just ungodly.
True Seeing also seems a little over the top. Why the need for self-sufficiency for these buff spells? The paladin has a party to back him up. Spell Resistance has the same issue but I can see more justification for that than the other.
A very good job overall. I am much enamored of A Hero Never
Falls, and like several of the smite feats although a few rub me the
wrong way. I am also pleased with the per encounter smites, I am quite
sure that per encounter ability are the way of the future ala ToB.
Finally I am pleased to see another fan of JAE's art work.
__________________
Quote:
Obsidianjaerc, your new signature is now shipping.
Pearls of Wisdom
Live Forever or Die Trying
Yes I created the Poll which resulted in the naming of Knowledge Arcana. Stop asking.
-Me
You can break us, but you can't break our spirits, Gleemax.
-Lord Karsus
If Mystra goes out and gets hit by a bus tomorrow, no one in the
world casts magic from that point on except folks who know how to
access the Shadow Weave, but they get to keep using their magic just
fine.
--Richard Baker on the nature of magic
...Flan (as in "people from the Flanaess" not "tasty Mexican dessert")...
--Johnny Oneal on Flan in it's many forms
I think that psychic pirate-ninjas with laser swords that shoot
otherlaser swords, metal eyepatches that shoot coldfire flaming kittens
with titanium razorsharp claws, and viking helmets pwn all.
--BlaineTog on Pirates V. Ninjas
The language on the boards is English, not Stupidish.
--Savras on making sense
Slaad aren't exactly a cultural phenomenon.
--CzarGarrett on chaos
Who wants to go around having visions and contacting other planes when
you can get practically the same answer from mindraping the right
people, or off Wikipedia
--Pitiless_Interfector on divination
comm0nerz are teh br0kenz!!!
-- Nifft on game balance
Balance is subjective so you can't have incontrovertible evidence
unless it's something as simple and straightforward as "+3 is greater
than +2 and otherwise everything is the same
--OneWingedAngel on game balance
Last edited by Obsidianjaerc : 12-26-06 at 08:31 AM.
Reason: fixed tags
If you're going to make Blackguard 1-20, consider adding a sidebar for trading in levels for a fallen paladin.
Also, perhaps a sidebar to explain using the other alignments. I'd suggest
Paladin: LG
Liberator: CG
Ravager: CE
Blackguard: LE
If not, that's ok. That may be a lot of extra work.
Honestly, I'd probably make Blackguard "Any Evil" and for the
Liberator all I'd really do is slightly adjust the spell list (Change
any "lawful" spells to their "chaotic" equivelent)... but seeing as how
I have next to no interest in the liberator I'll probably take forever
getting around to it.
I would definitely make a note of trading in levels, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris_Lathiin
One thing I really like is how you've written the class. It's a lot more clear than the PHB is.
I have an unfair advantage: It's digital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris_Lathiin
This is very cool. I'd love to try it out in my next campaign, if you don't mind.
Of course I don't mind... it was written up here for everyone's benefit, after all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidianjaerc
I still like this quite a bit. A few qualms remain.
Cold damage, I suspect.
Ah yes, I'll fix that. Good catch. I wonder why you used code for the rest of your comments, though...
Quote:
Honestly, I still find all the spells to be too much, on top of all the other cool stuff they get.
Basically, the spells Seerow and I have given the Paladin are an
altogether appropriate boost in our minds, and fixes a sore problem
with the paladin... being that 90% of their spell list is absolutely
useless and completely irrelevant at the level they get it. For all
some can say "Oooh, these spells are really nice!" it's a wholly
different matter when you get to cast *2* at level *16* with a reduced
caster and spell level (Which you still do). Only a few spells were
actually *useful* for the paladin. Most of these were either on his
first level spell list or came from supplements. Things like Righteous
Fury seem to indicate that Wizards, too, felt that the paladin's spells
needed an appropriate boost.
With the idea that Righteous Fury is a 3rd level spell for the paladin,
the other spell choices are weighed a bit against that. Divine Power,
for example, is probably a bit weaker in most cases than Righteous
Fury, so it's on the 3rd level list.
Healing spells definitely needed a boost, because at the level the
paladin got them they had absolutely no use and you could get more
temporary hp out of Righteous Fury (along with your attack boosts) than
you could heal. There was really no reason for the paladin to ever
prepare a healing spell, and no one ever did. Now, they're still not
one of his better spells, but at least they aren't totally useless.
Quote:
Why the reduction in level of break enchantment and restoration?
So that you get them at an appropriate level. Reduction of level
is a common practice, and indeed the core paladin already gets a lot of
it.
As a general rule, the spell equivelences are like...
The only area where this is an issue would be in the cases of
Artificers and Archivists, who could exploit such things (and already
can with core)... but that's easy to fix. I suggest using the relevant
house rule in my sig to avoid the issue.
Quote:
Freedom of movement seems like a buff that others should cast on the
paladin. Spell immunity also seems strange for the paladin to have.
While I kinda agree on Freedom of Movement, I wasn't the only
one who had a say in this. *Shrug*. As for Spell Immunity, why on earth
would it seem strange for the paladin to have a divine spell of
protection?
Quote:
Banishment doesn't seem like the paladins cup of tea. Why not simply
kill the evil outsider? I am not pleased with flame strike, seeing it
as the purview of clerics to call heavenly flames. Blatent evocation
isn't needed for this melee character, especially given the Smite
feats. The same goes for Heroes' Feast.
Then don't prepare it for your character! You don't like the
flavor, don't use it. Others may like the flavor... so they will use
it. Same thing goes and always has for clerics and their seemingly
unlimited spell selection. For example, some might enjoy the idea of an
exorcist type of paladin (Which indeed is a flavor promoted in some
settings). Then again, Banishment isn't particularly good for the
Paladin, because his save DCs are going to suck. Same thing for Flame
Strike: It'll never work for the paladin in a way at all comparable to
the way it works for the Cleric.
Quote:
Heal is incredibly powerful for a character who already has Lay on
Hands and access to all the other Cure (mass) spells. Overkill and
potentially (though I hate this word) unbalanced.
At level 16? With very limited spells per day? And ultimately
significantly less healing potential than the Cleric? How? I certainly
don't get it.
Quote:
I'm a bit iffy on Raise Dead. By the time paladin's get it, it would be useless to a party of that level.
Yet you think he should only have Cure Serious Wounds by that time? :p
Alright, well, Raise Dead is useful for parties without Clerics or Druids.
Quote:
Righteous Might seems like overkill as well. It made up for the clerics
3/4 BAB in melee combat. When applied to the paladin it's just ungodly.
Clerics use Divine Power to... not have 3/4 BAB. And for the
paladin, it's a much higher level ability than it is for the Cleric
(they get it at what, level 9 vs level 14?). And you have to use your
highest level spell slot, for which you'll have one or two spells a
day. And you get a lower caster level, which affects what it does. And
it's easier to dispel.
Quote:
True Seeing also seems a little over the top. Why the need for
self-sufficiency for these buff spells? The paladin has a party to back
him up. Spell Resistance has the same issue but I can see more
justification for that than the other.
Again, True Seeing uses up one of those precious highest level spell slots, and you get it at a very late level.
Quote:
A very good job overall. I am much enamored of A Hero Never Falls, and
like several of the smite feats although a few rub me the wrong way. I
am also pleased with the per encounter smites, I am quite sure that per
encounter ability are the way of the future ala ToB.
Thanks.
Quote:
Finally I am pleased to see another fan of JAE's art work.
JAE is quite awesome.
___
By the way, if anyone's looking for an Epic progression for this, I'll
say up front that I'm not going to do it, because I have minimal (read:
None) experience with epic level play, and I don't intend to use Epic
rules anytime soon (since all I ever hear is... well, not too positive
things, and I find 20th level to be epic enough for my tastes).
Blackguard will be 1-20.
Also, I'm currently playtesting the Paladin in an Eberron campaign. Currently up to level 5.
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 12-27-06 at 01:16 AM.
Probably.
Seerow didn't care for the idea too much, but I think that enough
people have been asking for it that I will be adding it anyways.
My DM is having me go TWF with this pally. However, I make up for it by gestalting with Swordsage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto the Bugbear
Also, perhaps a sidebar to explain using the other alignments. I'd suggest
Paladin: LG
Liberator: CG
Ravager: CE
Blackguard: LE
I use this for my campaign already. If you (OW4, that is) don't
make the other 1-20 variants, no doubt someone else will come behind
you and make them.
You've made the definitive fix for the Paladin. I'm just here to show support.
__________________
In a debate, the greatest enemy of the truth is pride.
Journeyman777 with good advice on real world diplomacy.
thought:
Since admittedly, raise dead is, by the time it's available to the
party, not something they'd quite want... (After all, it's a pain to
have to try to get that level back, and it places you behind everyone
else... well, I at least would rather my party find a cleric and pay
him whatever they have to to get me back whole...)...
Why not make it the ultimate LOH expenditure? Give it a time limit on
the order of hours or even minutes to work, rather than days, but no
level loss, and it's not a spell.
It'd have to be pretty expensive- wipe out even a good paladin's entire
LOH pool (until they get a chance to recharge- essentially killing one
of their limited recharges), but this would give it more immediate
utility, value, versatility, possibly silence some complaints, and as a
special ability, is more in line (I think) with the paladin flavor
(since he's all about the special abilities, as opposed to all about
the spells).
(edit) Note: I'm picturing this barely bringing them back- to maybe
1d10 HP or something like that- otherwise it could be used as a cheap
way to bring your HP-heavy barbar buddy back up to full mid-bossfight.
Reviving Touch, perhaps? Either just a base cost that brings them to,
say, a single hit die; or perhaps something along the lines of "You are
now able to heal HP damage even beyond -10 by paying a base cost of X
points of LOH + double amount of damage they last took" so someone
right at -10 would take x + 20 LOH points just to bring to 0... while
someone who's more of a -20HP paste than a corpse would take more...?
Could bring them back fatigued, or who knows... whatever helps keep
this from being abusable or overpowered, but doesn't levy any permanent
drains or loss.
Last edited by A_Redthorn : 12-27-06 at 12:16 PM.
Reason: addition
__________________
And so at last the beast fell and the unbelievers rejoiced. But all was
not lost, for from the ash rose a great bird. The bird gazed down upon
the unbelievers and cast fire and thunder upon them. For the beast had
been reborn with its strength renewed, and the followers of Mammon
cowered in horror.
Next
update I'll include some variants (Smite with Rolled Damage, two Lay on
Hands variants), and the new version of Vindication. Maybe some other
stuff, although in the aftermath of Christmas, I have a lot of other
duties to attend to... (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, of
course)
Quote:
Originally Posted by theotherdraxen
I
use this for my campaign already. If you (OW4, that is) don't make the
other 1-20 variants, no doubt someone else will come behind you and
make them.
You've made the definitive fix for the Paladin. I'm just here to show support.
Don't forget it's Seerow's fix too
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 12-28-06 at 12:52 AM.
Location: Otto's Grog & Gruel. Finest fried elf in the land.
Re: The Rebalanced Paladin! (Thread 2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy
I like this alot, any chance at a pdf for Dmgenie? I am terribly lazy and don't want to do this any other way
If (when) it gets completely ironed out, I can create a PDF if
nobody else does (we've got the adobe PDF creator at work). While it's
not likely that I can distribute it (laziness) or host it anywhere, I
can email it to OW4 and he can distribute it or post it somewhere on
the web.
Hearing your reasoning I've changed a few thoughts put not all.
No prob about the cold catch. The code tags were a typo. It should have been italics.
Anyway...
The reduction chart makes sense. Break enchantment however is a
difference of level 9 for a Sor/Wiz and level 11 for a charismatic
paladin. Not as large of a spread as usually justifies the addition to
the spell list. *shrug*
FoM is still silly. Seerow, come defend it.
Righteous Might isn't an issue, it just seems useless for the paladin.
The major benefit was bumping 3/4 BAB. Paladin don't need that and
can't get much use out of the other bonuses it grants, and would be
better off casting something else. So why offer it as a poor option?
Ah yes, the Exorcist of the Silver Flame and all that jazz. I guess Banishment is acceptable then.
I'm still not convinced of Flame Strike for a paladin spell. Protection, healing and buffs sure. Not fire from the sky.
Heal is just overkill. The paladin already has enough healing potential
from LoH and cure spells. The paladin's main role isn't healer and
though the re-balancing makes him more of one than before...Heal itself
seems unnecessary.
Leave that nugget for the poor Cleric.
Raise Dead isn't useful even then. Instead the paladin will either use
Revivification (if SC is allowed) or (more likely) the party will be
paying NPCs to Resurrect/TR them. It comes to late (16th level I think)
in the game to be useful option.
I understand the limitations on True Seeing, I just still don't see the
reasoning for the inclusion of that buff spell. Party teamwork is a
friend.
As for Epic. That's disappointing. If there is an outcry for a
progression I'd be more than happy to whip one up with Seerow and
OneWinged4ngel's permission. But not until both things happen.
We could always get DragonChild to host it for us. He's always talking about how he wants new material for his site.
Edit: I got simuposted. *responds to Obsidian*
Quote:
FoM is still silly. Seerow, come defend it.
Sure. Explain to me why it's silly for the Paladin, and not the
Cleric and I'll remove it. The Cleric is every bit the melee tank of
doom the Paladin is, and they'd both use it in the same situations. I
see no reason NOT to have it.
Quote:
Righteous Might isn't an issue, it just seems useless for the paladin.
The major benefit was bumping 3/4 BAB. Paladin don't need that and
can't get much use out of the other bonuses it grants, and would be
better off casting something else. So why offer it as a poor option?
You're confusing Righteous Might with Divine Power. Righteous Might is a Size Enhancing spell, that alone makes it useful.
Divine Power is still useful though. +6 enhancement bonus to Strength,
and your CL in temp HP isn't bad. It also helps the multiclassed
Paladin.
Quote:
I'm still not convinced of Flame Strike for a paladin spell. Protection, healing and buffs sure. Not fire from the sky.
This is another case of me saying "Well, why not?" It gives the
Paladin a viable ranged attack option should he want it, and the idea
of a high level Paladin calling down fire from the sky is fun.
Quote:
Heal is just overkill. The paladin already has enough healing potential
from LoH and cure spells. The paladin's main role isn't healer and
though the re-balancing makes him more of one than before...Heal itself
seems unnecessary.
Why? He's getting it several levels after the Cleric, and has a
lower caster level. The Cleric is in every way his superior at actually
healing. But at high levels in battle healing NEEDS heal. Cure Serious
Wounds simply doesn't cut it when next round your ally is going to eat
50-100 damage
Quote:
Leave that nugget for the poor Cleric.
and Druid? They get it too.
Quote:
As for Epic. That's disappointing. If there is an outcry for a
progression I'd be more than happy to whip one up with Seerow and
OneWinged4ngel's permission. But not until both things happen.
Go for it IMO. I'd attempt to do something with it, having a bit
more experience than OWA, but epic feats aren't fun to mess with.
Especially when you're competing with epic spellcasting.
__________________
Fun Quotes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime_Wolf
It
should be noted that the fighter lives in his own little world of
balance as well. The key is that he isn't underpowered if you don't
compare him to any other class."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid
Of
course Clerics lose to Fighters if you forbid clerics from using every
intelligent strategy that exists. duh. "If every cleric is forced to
play stupid, clerics suck. hyuck." Dumbest balancing philosophy ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfvyn
I
like his[Seerow's] handgrenades, in fact sometimes I wish he'd throw
beefier ones. Not ebcause I always agree with him, but because after a
handfull of his handgrenades have been thrown the topic generally
starts to get crazy and people are so consumed with finding anything at
all they can use to discredit everyone else that they become totally
lost. It's like our own little pool of choas right here on the boards.
if I didn't know any better I'd say he was a slaad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxlimn and Kreselak
"Non-PC
activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs.
It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. LIkewise, being a combat
wall is likewise not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that."
"Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreselak
20th
level Fighters are good because at 20th level, you're about to start a
new campaign in which you won't have to be a Fighter.
Righteous
Might isn't an issue, it just seems useless for the paladin. The major
benefit was bumping 3/4 BAB. Paladin don't need that and can't get much
use out of the other bonuses it grants, and would be better off casting
something else. So why offer it as a poor option?
Useless for the Paladin? Righteous Might is like... one of the
better spells on his list now. Are you confusing it with Divine Power?
Divine Power is still useful for the Paladin, since it gives a sizable
strength bonus and some bonus hp.
Quote:
Heal is just overkill. The paladin already has enough healing potential
from LoH and cure spells. The paladin's main role isn't healer and
though the re-balancing makes him more of one than before...Heal itself
seems unnecessary.
Leave that nugget for the poor Cleric.
Poor... cleric? Trust me, the cleric doesn't need to worry. He's
still way more powerful than the paladin. Because he's the CLERIC.
Quote:
Raise Dead isn't useful even then. Instead the paladin will either use
Revivification (if SC is allowed) or (more likely) the party will be
paying NPCs to Resurrect/TR them. It comes to late (16th level I think)
in the game to be useful option.
Not all settings have raise dead so easily accessible, but yes
it's not a particularly grand thing to have. And yes, Revivify will be
on the list.
Quote:
I understand the limitations on True Seeing, I just still don't see the
reasoning for the inclusion of that buff spell. Party teamwork is a
friend.
True Seeing, IMO, was appropriate for the flavor of some
paladins. Revealing the truth and seeking out hidden evil and whatever.
Not all paladins are the same flavor, of course, but it fits for a few
I've played myself.
Just like with most of your spell objections... I've gotta ask: Why not?
Quote:
As for Epic. That's disappointing. If there is an outcry for a
progression I'd be more than happy to whip one up with Seerow and
OneWinged4ngel's permission. But not until both things happen.
Go for it... apparently Seerow's not interested in an epic
progression either, so I really don't mind if anyone takes a shot at it.
Last edited by OneWinged4ngel : 12-28-06 at 03:58 AM.
Location: Otto's Grog & Gruel. Finest fried elf in the land.
Re: The Rebalanced Paladin! (Thread 2)
I want to add a few things to Seerow's post as well, coming from my perspective...
Flame Strike: As a spell that "the other half results directly from
divine power", it makes perfect sense to include it. This is one of
those spells where the Paladin should NOT be firing it off at any old
enemy. He should know before hand that he's using this divine damage on
his evil enemies, instead of just some random castle guard. Of course,
not all players will do this, but I tend to think that type of player
has no business playing a character with paladin levels to begin with.
Heal: I also say "Why not?"
Consider this: The best "paladin" a character could make consisted of
levels of cleric with prestige paladin and either hospitaller or fist
of raziel. Why is that? Awesome casting with a very small reduction in
the potency of paladin class levels. By making Heal a paladin spell at
that level, he's just being granted one more option for really helping
his party out.
Plus, the way this paladin works, a party certainly no longer "needs" a
cleric or other dedicated healer. More options for the group always
equals more fun. (One of the reasons I don't try to disuade the TWF
option, even when I could never see myself using it with a paladin.)
Epic: Epic rules are seriously broken. I know that the term "broken"
gets bandied about way too much on these boards, but in this one
instance, attaching the word BROKEN to Epic is is completely accurate.
Epic rules should have been nothing more than the next 20 levels detailed using the same rule set already presented in core.
First
off I want to extend a hand and make sure this stays friendly. I like
both of you and your work. I'm just trying to polish this overall.
Note that I am still not convinced that balance requires all their
nifty new stuff plus spells. And I haven't heard a reasonable
justification. There is no rule 0 is cyberspace.
'Just because the Cleric has it' isn't reason to add a spell that violates the theme of the paladin.
I indeed was confusing the two. Curses. Statement retracted.
I don't find "why not" to be a valid design philosophy. Flame Strike doesn't seem to mesh with the other paladin spells.
You keeping pointing out that the Cleric is superior spell-wise to the
Paladin. One is a full casting class, one is not and as such shouldn't
get all the perks.
In another line of argument, will 1-2 heal spells make the difference
if LoH won't? The Paladin doesn't need to replace the divine caster or
fill the healer role. He plays support to those two.
Quote:
Leave that nugget for the poor Cleric.
A joke. Hence the . CoD-zilla ahoy.
Quote:
Go for it IMO. I'd attempt to do something with it, having a bit more
experience than OWA, but epic feats aren't fun to mess with. Especially
when you're competing with epic spellcasting.
Cool. It's hard but such characters can be viable (note: not equal to spellcaster) in Epic.
Otto: Playing a paladin and trying to fulfill the roles of
healer/buffer as well as tank seems like a tall order. I see this
paladin as I saw the older one (only better made): a support character
that can pick up the slack and do it's only special things.
Quote:
Not all settings have raise dead so easily accessible, but yes it's not
a particularly grand thing to have. And yes, Revivify will be on the
list.
Then they better grab a cleric. Because Raise Dead isn't
effective at this level, when many things destroy the body. And who
wants to lose a level?
As for True Seeing the "Why not" doesn't cut it. "Because such and
such" is what I'm looking for instead. And if they were designed on the
revealing the truth archetype, why don't they have sense invisibility
and similar?
---
Otto: Regarding Epic. Would you clarify what specifically you are saying is broken? If you mean the entirety
of epic rules, then you are wrong. I can demonstrate that simply by
proving that one aspect of epic rules is not broken. For example, skill
points continue to be the same for each class at each level in epic,
since they are not considered broken as a whole pre-epic, they cannot
be broken post epic.
I'm just asking you to to clarify what aspects of epic rules you are calling broken?
The Rebalanced Paladin! (Thread 2)
One for OneWinged4ngel
each. This is by far the best fix for any class ever, and I have
finally found a class I enjoy playing. The paladin was one of the
classes needing a fix, and you two have done a masterful job. This link
will be going in my sig, for sure!
Linear Mode
