Don't Lose The Forest For The Trees

Most people know the expression "can't see the forest for the trees," that is, you get lost in details and fail to see the big picture. In game (and level/adventure) design it's usually the big picture that counts, for players. Yet many designers, even experienced designers, sometimes get bogged down in details at the expense of the quality of the game as a whole.


The main objective in RPGs is a "forest" (an adventure) that players can enjoy, whether they like "trees" that involve combat, or story, or puzzles, or politics, or something else. To put it another way, the forest has to consist of the right kind of trees. But the rules themselves are also a matter of forest and trees, because the rules can require players (and GM) to focus on trees to the detriment of the quality of the forest.

Let's look at a general example, both from the player point of view and a designer point of view. Say you're making a game depicting the entire Pacific War in World War II. It doesn't make sense to ask players to manage minute details, such as determining the airplane loads on an aircraft carrier: whether they are armed with torpedoes or bombs, when they were gassed up, and so on. During an aircraft carrier battle such as Midway, yes, the Japanese decisions of this sort were very important, but can you ask players to keep track of such minute details at this entire-Pacific-war scale? It becomes a grind rather than a game.

Keeping track of details isn't always too much attention to minutiae. Some would argue that keeping careful track of inventory is, but I don't, because it's only an occasional thing, and it helps belief in what's happening. If players can carry "anything and everything," as they often do in computer RPGs, we lose suspension of disbelief (break immersion).

Let's take an example from the game Dystopia Rising. This very atmospheric post apocalyptic game, originally a LARP, is lumbered with a set of rules apparently designed by someone without experience. The setting cries out for simple rules to highlight the setting, but is lumbered with detailed combat rules (including determination of where you hit, and lots of dice rolls), and an awkward roll of several 10 sided dice that must be added up individually (a real no-no in game design these days) to resolve anything . The forest is obscured by those details. (I'll talk about this game in more detail another time.)

Game design is an invitation to get lost in details. It's easier to add things to a game to solve a problem than to remove things, even though games generally are better when all unnecessaries are removed. As a freelance game designer, I like to set aside designs for months and then come back to them because that helps me see the forest, and it helps me recognize when trees need work (or need to be excised).

Many modern board and card games are puzzles rather than games, where there are a few always-correct solutions ("paths to victory"), or only one. It might make sense to complicate a puzzle in order to make it harder to solve. Nonetheless, even when you're doing a puzzle you need to try to keep the forest in mind as you wander through the trees you're growing all over the place in your puzzle. Moreover, role-playing is the genre of games least amenable to being made into puzzles.

The designer always has to ask himself (or herself), "what am I trying to show in my game?" The question isn't as important for an adventure designer, but still worth asking. This not only applies to game design but also to many creative activities.

contributed by Lewis Pulsipher
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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

DRF

First Post
I'm not sure what kind of discussion you were hoping for. The presented ideas are simple and self-explanatory.
 

Hussar

Legend
I can agree with most of thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "modern ... games are puzzles rather than games." Can you give me some examples?
 



practicalm

Explorer
Some of the balance points is where the designer (or the target audience) falls into the Game, Narrative, Simulation spectrum.

Lots of early games tried to be simulations. There were charts for everything and there was more worry about was it realistic and the deterministic series of events would be balanced by the players doing things in response.

Not every game with charts was very realistic. Rolemaster's critical hit charts were more gamist since there were certain results you tried for (e.g. 66 result on the critical hit table was always good). But their weapons charts tried to be realistic of weapon types against different armor types.

I more appreciate games that are internally consistent. The first version of Paranoia for example was a mess of skill trees and other complications that didn't reflect the theme and setting. The game was improved by moving to a easier lighter game system in 2nd edition. (I don't know about later editions as much).

I'm always very cautious around games that use a new dice or random mechanic. I worry that there are exploits in the math of the mechanic the designer didn't intend.
 

pemerton

Legend
Lots of early games tried to be simulations. There were charts for everything
Some games suffered from this. Others didn't.

Tunnels & Trolls is an early RPG, but its rules are easier than Moldvay Basic. And it's not at all simulationist in its design.

Classic Traveller is another early RPG. It clearly has simulationist ambitins. Its rules are a bit more complex than Moldvay Basic, but are simpler than AD&D. And yet I think as a game it has far more scope than AD&D, because of the elegant way that it puts its simulationist sub-systems to work. One way it does this: instead of a chart for everything, in many cases there is simply a check difficulty number plus a modifier based on appropriate skills. And when it comes to social encounters, it skill descriptions (for Streetwise, Admin, Bribery, etc) plus its rules for reactions, law level and morale require fewer pages than the rules for reactions, loyalty and morale in Gygax's DMG, and yet cover a wider field of action and produce more determinate outcomes.

I guess my point is that we don't want to overgeneralise either about early RPGs, or about simulatonist RPGs.
 

lewpuls

Hero
DRF - I write to educate/illuminate/enlighten, not necessarily to generate a discussion. Sometimes discussion happens, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes because English is easily misunderstood, and I am not perfect.


Hussar, someone could write a book about puzzles vs games. I've written somewhere between 6K and 10K words, not published. Also addressed this some in my book "Game Design: How to Create Video and Tabletop Games, Start to Finish" (McFarland 2012). Very briefly, most single-player (and by extension, cooperative), games are puzzles. The exception is RPGs, cooperative but you usually have human-controlled opposition rather than programmed opposition (a deck of cards as in Pandemic counts as "programmed"). "Multiplayer solitaire" (I call this parallel competition) is usually a puzzle, and that includes a great many Eurostyle tabletop games. If a game has an always-correct solution - or a few, as in "multiple paths to victory" - it's a puzzle. This is why people usually stop playing video games when they "beat the game" - they've solved the puzzle. It's also why players can do "speed runs" of video games, they already know the solution. Chess is a puzzle, but too complex for humans to solve: a chess match played perfectly will always end the same way. Most if not all two player perfect information games are puzzles, from Tic-Tac-Toe through Go. There is always a best move. In games, especially games for more than two, there is no best move (frequently) .


Practicalm, I don't think simulation and determinism go together. In board games, such as SPI's wargames, some designers try to force the historical result by making a puzzle rather than a game (puzzles amount to a form of determinism insofar as there's one or a few always-correct solutions). This is always ahistorical, because history isn't what was inevitable, it's what happened as a result of many often-random events, the result often less likely than other outcomes that didn't happen. You can try to simulate without forcing a particular outcome/determinism.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I'm always very cautious around games that use a new dice or random mechanic. I worry that there are exploits in the math of the mechanic the designer didn't intend.
Even old games can have unintended features due to unfortunate mathematical choices.

In 3.X the way saves worked for multiclass characters who had multi-ed in classes with two good saves that were the same (e.g., Barbarian and Fighter), it was not difficult to end up totally rocking one of the save types while being slightly poorer in the other two. This happened because WotC rounded in the middle of the calculations. As anyone who's taken high school chemistry knows, this is a major no-no. They eventually published a correction in Unearthed Arcana but for most of 3.X's life cycle, saves were "wrong." Well they were wrong in the sense that they were based on poor arithmetical practice but may well have created an exploit if there were feats that substituted one save for another. I fixed it in my campaign because things like this bug me a lot, but I'm sure most people didn't. In 5E they have some similar issues, again with saves, whereby high level characters develop a "glass jaw" in non-proficient saves. They don't advance in a non-proficient save but all other things being equal, save DCs go up as CR goes up, and sometimes end up extraordinarily high in an attempt to challenge people with proficient saves that align with their key stats. The effect can be quite marked. The save system is rather complicated due to the fact that there are six of them, compared to previous editions' fewer, leaving more room for "whoops".

A lot of this happens because I suspect the math gets checked only at lower levels---to the extent it is at all, I'm not too sure that the WotC group actually has anyone good at even fairly basic math on it. Lots of problems take a while to emerge due to compounding of errors, such as the effect of rounding during a calculation.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I'm not sure what you mean by "modern ... games are puzzles rather than games." Can you give me some examples?

Lewpuls is using more specific terminology for puzzles vs. games than is ordinary parlance.

Many people refer to an RPG as, well, a game. In the broad sense of the word, it is. The dictionary has multiple definitions, one that's looser and covers RPGs and a tighter one that requires head to head competition. A video game without head to head competition is, therefore, a puzzle, not a game. If you play the single player version of Call of Duty, that's a puzzle but if you play multiplayer versus maps, that's a game. Most RPGs are puzzles because they're a team of players working (mostly) cooperatively to "solve" the story that the GM is running.

Specialist language is necessary to think and talk intelligently about things in any depth, so I get the point, but it can be confusing and seem pedantic when one isn't prepared for it.
 
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