View Profile: Maxperson - Morrus' Unofficial Tabletop RPG News
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Today, 02:20 PM
    I like this! My only quibble is the line with lawful about benefiting society as a whole, as it doesnít work with LE. How about this. Lawful - I work to increase Order. Neutral - I work to maintain Order Chaotic - I actively or passively embrace disorder. Or even more simply I create. I maintain.
    232 replies | 5288 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:43 PM
    Hey. If you wanted to house rule the game based on modules(not rules) and ignore the actual rules(3 plus players = ideal), that was your call. The rules were there to serve you, not the other way around.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Today, 01:39 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 28 Broom of Flying 27 Carpet of Flying 27 Crystal Ball 7 Cube of Force 21-2=19 Cubic Gate 18+1=19
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:28 PM
    It's not even a restriction at all in 5e. There's one line where it says that druids won't wear metal armor. Not can't. Won't. Making it a personal choice and not a restriction. What happens if a PC decides that he will? Nothing at all. All of his abilities work just fine with a druid wearing metal full plate and a metal shield.
    42 replies | 652 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:18 PM
    If all the things to spy on with that thing, you're choosing female sheep? :eek:
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:17 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 28 Broom of Flying 27 Carpet of Flying 26 Crystal Ball 7 Cube of Force 23 Cubic Gate 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:15 PM
    I've always gone with the rules as the official way to play, but that's just me I guess. Three or more includes 6-9, but doesn't require it or make 6-9 the baseline. The baseline presumption of the game is that 3 is as ideal as 9 is. Modules are a different beast. Many of them were written for convention and/or tournament play, and I suspect others just followed that model. Perhaps they...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 01:09 PM
    They were not rules at all. They were adventures. The game itself says it is, though. Iideal begins at 3 total players, so that number has to be part of the presumption or it is not ideal.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 05:22 AM
    3-5 depending on the PC mix and dragon, yes. You don't encounter half a dragon, and a dragon is an encounter for PCs of X level, depending on the age of the dragon. Given that 3 or more is the ideal number of players, you won't see encounters that are going to be auto death for 3 players. That's just not ideal.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 05:18 AM
    Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that modules were different. You shouldn't look to them for what the base game expects.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 05:15 AM
    It's really easy. I played 1e, 2e and 3e extensively with a variety of DM types. 3e was far easier across the board. I worried in most combats in AD&D. I worried in relatively few combats in 3e, and most of those were when facing things with CRs 2 or more higher than the party. Are you talking about epic levels in 3e? Because I played several campaigns to 16-20th level and saves were...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:35 PM
    Great stuff here. Would absolutely love to see the simulation using an 11th level wizard at the center. Also curious as to how a 20th level fighter fares. Iím guessing they could handle at least 30 on average.
    60 replies | 2084 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:59 PM
    Late to the party here I know, but thought Iíd put in my 2c The Good/Evil scale I can wrap my head around pretty easily Good = I sacrifice of myself to help others Neutral = I help others if it doesnít require sacrifice of myself, I help myself if it doesnít require sacrifice of others Evil = I sacrifice others to help myself Law/Chaos is a tougher one for me to get my head around,...
    232 replies | 5288 view(s)
    1 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:35 PM
    Alchemy Jug 29 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 2-2=0 Broom of Flying 25 Carpet of Flying 27 Crystal Ball 10 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 10 Cube of Force 22 Cubic Gate 21+1=22
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:09 PM
    How is reading what is says straight out as what it says straight out as "way too much?" If the game is ideal for three of more, a single dragon cannot be balanced against 6-9. That would not be ideal. Rather, one dragon is balanced against around three so as to be ideal and if you have more players than that, you add more dragons.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:31 PM
    Alchemy Jug 29 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 1 Broom of Flying 25 Carpet of Flying 27 Crystal Ball 10 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 10 Cube of Force 24 Cubic Gate 21
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:27 PM
    Below is the presumption from 1e. You guys are looking at modules, often created for tournament or convention play, where you had more players than normal. From page 7 of the 1e PHB: "The game is ideally for three or more adult players: one player must serve as the Dungeon Master, the shaper of the fantasy milieu, the "world" in which all action will take place." That's it. That's the...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:09 AM
    Well darn. I guess I need to call up my 3 gaming buddies and tell them that all those years of playing 1e and 2e didn't count, because we didn't do it your way.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:29 AM
    Well, my example was for 4. If you're at 6-9 we up the number of dragons and treasure is all. The math still works out the same as far as XP from monsters vs. XP from treasure.
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:28 AM
    It was and wasn't for me as a player. As a player I enjoyed risk and took great pains to scout and avoid ambushes, as well as avoiding undead when possible. Then 3e came out and saves were allowed against energy drain. At first I was very happy. Then I noticed how easy those saves were, how you got two chances to make them, and how easy it was to get restoration. I played 3e from the day it...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 10:01 PM
    Alchemy Jug 29 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 29 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 7-2=5 Broom of Flying 25+1=26 Carpet of Flying 28 Crystal Ball 10 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 10 Cube of Force 23 Cubic Gate 23
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 02:09 PM
    This was the consensus of the non-conversational side in the other thread. Something short and evocative to describe the room and mood, and then questions/statements if necessary.
    24 replies | 764 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 01:33 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of holding 29 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 8 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 28 Crystal Ball 12 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 12 Cube of Force 25 Cubic Gate 23
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 01:30 PM
    And worth nowhere as much XP. I went with ancient red dragon to illustrate just how piddly combat XP was. Especially vs. XP from treasure. You played with a generous DM, or perhaps one who didn't know how to run monsters. If the DM wasn't worried about killing you and used tactics that many of the monsters would know and use, combats were not easy, especially when you factored in save...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 01:25 PM
    A bag of holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:55 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 29 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 10-2=8 Broom of Flying 23+1=24 Carpet of Flying 27 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 8 Crystal Ball 14 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 14 Cube of Force 24
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:24 PM
    In 1e an ancient red dragon was worth 7758, or 1939 xp each for a party of 4. An ancient red dragon can easily have 250,000gp worth of treasure, not including magic items. That equates to 62,500 xp each for that party of 4. Gaining the treasure is 32 times more xp than killing it, and you get that same exp if you steal the treasure rather than fight the dragon. D&D was originally...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 01:56 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 31 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 10 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 27 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 8 Crystal Ball 14 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 14 Cube of Force 24
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:39 AM
    You focus on tricking monsters, but ignore that it talks about avoiding/disarming traps as well. There are no monsters(typically) involved with traps, and yet the DM is supposed to come up with an encounter level for them in order to assign non-combat XP. Modules are a different beast. In order to appeal to the widest audience, they have to be written murderhobo and then DMs can add or...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 01:56 AM
    I'm not sure about page 84. I'll look in a second. However, the intro section of the PHB says the following. "While initial adventuring usually takes place in an underworld dungeon setting, play gradually expands to encompass other such dungeons, town and city activities, wilderness explorations, and journeys into other dimensions, planes, times, worlds, and so forth." It's pretty clear...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:23 PM
    In my experience, this is less about the DM failing to be engaged, and more that the DM has failed to learn the box text in advance and just reads it as he goes. If he had learned it in advance and was able to describe the scene with the box text as the guide, the players would have been more engaged.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:12 PM
    I agree. If nobody wants to engage with the content, then the content doesn't matter. If "it's the actual content that matters,'' content determines whether people engage or not. Now, I clearly do not agree that "it's the actual content that matters." I think both content and presentation matter equally. Of course, you can never guarantee engagement. 100% content, 100% presentation,...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:06 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 4 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 12 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 12 Crystal Ball 16 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 16
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 02:11 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 6 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 12 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14-2=12 Crystal Ball 16 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 07:08 AM
    You ever read Spellsinger? It's not a world with no humans, but humans are definitely in the minority, with animals making up most of the intelligent population.
    213 replies | 4954 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 03:47 AM
    I'd go bronze age.
    213 replies | 4954 view(s)
    1 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Saturday, 15th June, 2019, 05:22 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 10 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14-2=12 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 2
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 15th June, 2019, 03:06 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 10 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 21 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 4 Crystal Ball 16
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 05:41 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 24 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14-2=12 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 19+1=20 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 10 Crystal Ball 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:12 PM
    Okay. Thanks for the update!
    81 replies | 5048 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:07 PM
    Are there any plans to address them?
    81 replies | 5048 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:02 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 22 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 20 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 12 Crystal Ball 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 07:43 AM
    I hear licking exploding toads can get you there, too.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:02 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 10 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 23 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 25 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16 -2=14 Chime of Opening 12
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:24 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 9 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 23 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 20 Carpet of Flying 25 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16 Chime of Opening 14
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:21 PM
    Bad analogy. This thread debate using basketball would be... What's more important in playing basketball, offense, defense, shooting or dribbling? Theatrics in most sports is nearly non-existent. It shows up a little bit after touchdowns, goals and such, but for most of the game it's not there. If you wanted to use a "sport" where theatrics and the sport might be on equal ground, go with...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
    4 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 01:18 PM
    It wouldn't be charisma if it didn't work. ;) Speaking of charisma. In my games I make note of the charisma of the PCs. Even if the most eloquent player gives me an amazing speech, if his PC has a charisma of 4 I'm going to filter that speech though his charisma and the NPCs will hear it different. Conversely, a stammering and stuttering player whose PC is a charisma 20 paladin, will have...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
    1 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:21 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 21 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 16-2=14 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Candle of Invocation 4 Carpet of Flying 24 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:17 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 11 Bag of Holding 25 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 16 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 16 Broom of Flying 20 Candle of Invocation 4 Carpet of Flying 24 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:10 PM
    No. A lot of people with great ideas have been ignored by people, because the one with the idea didn't say it right. A lot of horrors have happened, because someone with a bad idea that people generally wouldn't listen to, were sold on it by someone saying it the right way. How you say something is very often more important than what you are saying.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:06 PM
    I would argue that those are just unorthodox methods of narration. They're still communicating ideas. Synonyms of narration include portrayal and sketch. I would have liked to have seen that.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 01:41 PM
    There isn't for me since it's all pretend. There is for the NPCs, though. If the PCs torture a thief to get information and it gets out, they could end up imprisoned. Torture is generally going to be illegal unless the government is doing it, and even then not all governments do it. The PCs reputation will suffer in any case as the locals view them as bad men. Whether the PCs engage in...
    302 replies | 8185 view(s)
    2 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 05:43 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 11 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18-2=16 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 18+1=19 Candle of Invocation 7 Carpet of Flying 23 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 02:02 PM
    I am at peace. For now I have seen everything.
    419 replies | 17177 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 01:19 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 20 Aisle of Dread - 0 - Dread is dead.
    210 replies | 8294 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 01:18 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Beans 10 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 19 Candle of Invocation 9 Carpet of Flying 23 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 03:26 AM
    Are the blocking/blocked bugs fixed with this change?
    81 replies | 5048 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 02:57 AM
    My dad's argument will totally rob your dad's argument. He starts off with a Masked-man Fallacy. Then he slides into a Broken Window Fallacy. And then, oh God, he did it again. He got distracted by an If-by Whisky. I guess I'll bail him out in the morning.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:46 PM
    Less than 1 spell per spell level over bards, and half that over clerics and druids is hardly what I would call "quite a bit." Then 90% of the time there should be no delay. Most of the remaining 10% should also be no delay as they should know their spells and be thinking about what to switch out while watches are being taken and other things being described. The length of time it takes...
    26 replies | 1082 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:28 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 22 Isle of Dread - 6 Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) - 3
    210 replies | 8294 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:27 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 28 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 20 Candle of Invocation 15 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:23 PM
    Monster X
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:04 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20-2=18 Broom of Flying 19+1=20 Candle of Invocation 15 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 04:47 AM
    I'm okay with not knowing what a monster is if my PC also doesn't know. However, I wouldn't accept the above. I'd ask you to describe to me what it looked like. What a strange creature looks like is every bit as important to me as what it's doing, even when what it's doing is charging me. Does it have 2 arms? 4 arms? Claws? Hands? Does it have a mouth full of fangs or a mouth full of...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 02:52 AM
    No. I'm done. If he doesn't get it, he doesn't get i.
    32 replies | 738 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:26 AM
    When the appropriate type of spell hits a PC or NPC, I will determine a save DC for the items in question and roll to see which ones catch fire and are destroyed, and which are fine. If the item in question is a container, anything inside is safe if the container saves. The DC will depend on the power of the spell in question and/or the power of the being using it. An Efreeti for example will...
    32 replies | 738 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:21 AM
    Auto mechanics. If my game mechanics start talking, I'm checking myself into a 72 hour hold.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:07 AM
    Hrm. I thought I started the mechanics thing with two mechanics talking to one another. :confused:
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:39 AM
    The scenario was a conversation between two mechanics, though.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:11 AM
    And I'll reiterate, "especially" just creates a subgroup of literature that is more preferred. It does not invalidate all other literature, or render it valueless.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:08 AM
    The attack is just as lethal to the guy with 150 as it is to the guy with 10. The guy with 150 just has a lot of skill and luck and got the heck out of the way of enough of it that a worst, it lit some of his stuff on fire.
    32 replies | 738 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 09:50 PM
    Wood and clothing appear on lists of flammable items. I said that damage is not abstract like hit points. You can't cast a fireball and do ice damage. You can't cast a fireball and do luck damage. You can't cast a fireball and to divine providence damage. Unless you can change the energy type, it always does fire damage. Hit points on the other hand can be whatever you need them to be.
    32 replies | 738 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 09:32 PM
    I am not using the first definition. I quoted the Oxford definition, which matches the first one. I also looked at multiple dictionaries. You shouldn't assume. The first definition is from the Oxford dictionary. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/literary There is also, https://www.dictionary.com/browse/literary "1. pertaining to or of the nature of books and writings,...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 06:12 PM
    I don't have to. It's literally THE definition. If you have an issue with it, argue the case with those who defined it. It absolutely does have a point. Once people can accept the facts and understand that anything written is literary, the question stops being, "Is this literary" and becomes, "What level of literary is preferred?" or perhaps, "What is the average level of literary...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:42 PM
    So now we're back to everything, including high quality literary language, being conversational English. Most of us gamers know and understand high quality literary language, so it would be conversational to us.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:09 PM
    In the context that you used it, it does. "They are speaking conversational English, but they aren't" is what it amounted to.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:01 PM
    Why does it have to be one or the other? With highly limited prep time I work on a few general ideas to present, so content. I can improv the descriptions and encounter details as I go. If I couldn't improv as well as I do, I'd call off the game for that week so I could prep both and we'd play board games. Terraforming Mars, Scythe, Clank and Tyrants of the Underdark are our current...
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:18 PM
    I wouldn't call Corwin, Bleys and Benedict sappy. :D
    210 replies | 8294 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:17 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 27 Isle of Dread - 12 Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) - 6
    210 replies | 8294 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:16 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 20​ - Not always useful, but interesting. Bag of Holding 27 - Useful, but boring. Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20 Broom of Flying 21 Candle of Invocation 14 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:06 PM
    It really doesn't matter. The higher the temperature, the shorter the duration required to set things on fire. Again, this is a function of hit points, not damage. Hit points are abstract, not damage. 42 points of fire is 42 points of fire. No. Just the hit points are abstract, not the damage. Fireballs do fire damage. The don't do luck damage. They don't do skill damage. ...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:56 PM
    I'm sorry I did that, but... You look good, but... You did a great job, but... When you add in the "but," you are invalidating what came before by carving out an exception to explain why what came before is wrong.
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:32 PM
    Literary only doesn't apply if you incorrectly believe that only high quality literary works are literary. If you believe that all things written are literary(the definition), then any time you are choosing these more evocative words to use over those words, you are moving up the literary scale. Using the named wood and describing briefly the carving, was more evocative than #1. Even though...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:26 PM
    But neither are those mechanics speaking conversational English, which is what Bedrockgames says he wants.
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 02:40 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 19 Bag of Holding 28 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20 Broom of Flying 21 Candle of Invocation 16 Carpet of Flying 20+1=21 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 20-2=18
    218 replies | 4532 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 07:43 AM
    The triggers are both the spell and the flammable property, not just the flammable property. A flammable object all by itself doesn't burst into flame. The fire spell hitting an object that is not flammable does not ignite it on fire. It requires both triggers to be present. The match test might seem reasonable to you, but it's far too unrealistic and unreasonable for me. A match pales...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:59 AM
    For descriptiveness, I think I probably fall in-between you and Imaro/Hussar. That just puts you and your colleagues beyond the realm of everyday conversational English, though. The average American reads at the 7th/8th grade level. For the most part, they aren't going to speak much better than they can read.
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:28 AM
    Hey, if all it takes to be using conversational English is to use it in a conversation, then even the most high quality literary language used in an RPG counts as conversational. It's pretty well understood that when people here have been discussing conversational English, they mean using the simple words and not the ones that fall outside of normal, everyday conversation.
    1470 replies | 40374 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:23 AM
    I'm not talking in absolutes. However, in 35+ years of gaming with more than 100 different people, I can't remember anyone who would rather hear, "There's a long, thick, hard, round, six foot, brown wooden staff on the ground." than "There's an intricately carved feywood staff on the ground." I imagine you aren't the only one, but I'm pretty confident that you are in a small minority of people...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 02:05 AM
    Yeah. They seem to have fixed the exp bug and quoting bug. I'm not positive about the edit bug since I haven't edited a post yet, but I imagine that one is fixed, too.
    81 replies | 5048 view(s)
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Thursday, 20th June, 2019

  • 01:37 PM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Maxperson, you realize you have it backwards right? The tournaments came first THEN AD&D. AD&D was an attempt to codify what was happening at tournaments. That's why tournament play is actually mentioned more than a few times in the AD&D DMG. Look, we get it. You played AD&D with 3 people. Great. Can you not understand that that wasn't typical of the time? Tournament tables were MUCH larger than that. Heck, my home game was anywhere from 6-13 players for many, many years. You'd think that if most of the games were only 3 players, then they'd market the modules for 3 players. Seems kind of strange to baseline the game at 3 players and then produce absolutely nothing for that baseline.

Wednesday, 19th June, 2019

  • 04:29 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Whoops double post. My bad.
  • 04:28 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    ...f holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons. See this is why I have such a hard time taking you seriously Maxperson. You obviously never played adnd. 6-9 pcs was the standard group. Four pcs is a 3e thing.

Monday, 17th June, 2019

  • 03:43 AM - Oofta mentioned Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Maxperson, you do understand that sometimes misunderstandings happen, right? My scenario was that the slave could realistically be freed and the way your response was phrased it sounded like the LG PC would not free them. That the only way to free the slaves was to overthrow the government and change the law. That until the law was changed, slavery should go unopposed. LG: Slavery is unjust and the tyrannical government enslaving the people should be overthrown. New just laws against slavery should be instated. While overthrowing the government may or may not be the LG thing to do*, in many cases it won't be possible. Freeing the slaves was possible. Forums are not always a great place to discuss topics, but when I say "I have no idea what you're saying" that's an admission on my part that, well, I have no idea what you're saying. Perhaps you should clarify before you start accusing people of constructing a strawman. *As much as my LG PC may hate the tyrannical government they may not ...

Wednesday, 12th June, 2019

  • 07:40 PM - uzirath mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...I had the opportunity to do a two-year folklore study of RPGs. (This was amazing. Still pinching myself.) I referred in my last post to the "torture" of typing up transcripts. That was a big part of the project. I ended up with hundreds of hours of recordings of live D&D games. As I analyzed that data, it was surprising to me that some of the most compelling games (from the perspective of the players at the table) did not depend on strong rhetoric, great writing, lots of GM prep, etc. At the time, I wasn't primarily focusing on that element and didn't even have a vocabulary for talking about it (this thread is a couple decades late), but it stuck with me. To the extent you do not enjoy longer narration, that's fine! That's a preference! But ... and I'm going to say this one more time ... just because someone prefers Hemingway over Henry Miller doesn't mean that they are both effective at what they do. Follow me? Yes. I agree with you. My post was in response to the idea that Maxperson's maxim, "How you say something is very often more important than what you are saying," applies universally to all forms of communication. I think the statement is more applicable to communication styles that require the words to stand on their own. Written communication, especially, benefits from a better presentation because there are no conversational elements, no facial expressions, no gestures, no ability to interrupt and ask questions, etc. Speeches and theatrical performances create a similar separation of performer and audience, though communication can be achieved through things other than words. The playing of an RPG, at least when you're around a traditional tabletop, is more like a conversation, which is judged by different criteria. Not saying there ain't overlap. Not saying that a great voice actor can't add a lot to a game (personally, I like that stuff). Not saying that some groups might not play quite differently. But I'm largely sold on the premise that if I'm help...

Sunday, 9th June, 2019

  • 05:41 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    But Iím beginning to see why weíre all having a hard time coming to a consensus....itís because we actually seem to have one, itís just that what I see as pretty basic communication, youíre viewing as carefully wrought wordplay.I don't agree that there's a consensus: I can't really tell what Maxperson thinks, but Imaro and Hussar have made claims about the need for entertaining/evocative narration that I think clearly contradict the position I asserted in the OP. But one complicating fact pertains to vocabularly: eg I wouldn't regard cadaverous as a word to describe a Githyanki as especially remarkable or a-conversational, but Hussar probably would, and maybe Bedrockgames also. What counts as every day vocabularly among a group of RPGers is pretty highly variable and contingent on a range of factors (social background/status, educational levels, occupation, etc). I'm a humanities/social sciene academic (philosophy and law) and many of the people I talk to on a regular basis (ie the people I work with, my students, etc) are lilkewise, or are aspiring to be. So I think my every day vocaublary is probably richer than the New York Times. This is why I have brought it back to what are we aiming for? What counts as success, as good RPGing? What should a GM focus on? And I'm sayin...
  • 05:33 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Iím sure mine and pemertonís ideas donít exactly match, no. But thatís fine. I donít entirely agree with his premise, but I understand it, and I think he has a point. But Iím only speaking for myself. I would tend to think of "rictus grin" as falling on the literary side of things, as does Hussar. As I've posted, it does no harm if it doesn't impede (what I regard as) the real point of play. It has a face like a skull might do just as well. I personally can't remember how I've described githyanki in the past - I suspect I'm more likely to have shown a picture, such as the one on the front of the Fiend Folio. More generally, and feeding this into the current Maxperson - Ovinomancer interaction, I think that the role of description in RPGing is easily overestimated. It prioritises immersive imagination orver protagonistic inhabitation. Whereas the latter is the distinctive virtue of RPGs as games that are about producing a shared fiction. All this said, I think you've fully understood my points in this thread, seem to agree at least to some extent, and have made many helpful posts into it for which I thank you.

Saturday, 8th June, 2019

  • 09:02 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ith their evocative and engaging performances. To put it more genreally, you have said that RPG participants should keep in mind the literary quality of their narration, and aim at it being good. Of course you recognise that success will probably be mixed. That is what I'm disagreeing with when I say that RPGing is not a literary endeavour, that it doesn't aim at literary virtues, that situation and the call to action, rather than beauty or wordcraft, is central. I can cash this out by reference to rulebooks if you like. The 2nd ed AD&D PHB says that a player should try to bring his/her PC to life by entertaining portrayal and characterisation eg does s/he smell? does s/he belch? does s/he finger her prayer beads in moments of indecision? Unlesss I've badly misunderstood you, you agree with this. Whereas my claim is that that advice is at best tangential, and at worst actively bad, if we want excellent, exciting, engaging, RPGing. Or an example that came up in this thread. Maxperson said that a RPG gets better if the GM narrates the dust from the opening of the secret door, adding to the "depth and feel of the game". A lot of GM advice manuals say simiar things. Whereas, as I posted upthread, my advice to a GM on how to add to the depth and feel of the game would be very different: work on your situations, and your consequences, and let the narrative details take care of themselves.

Friday, 7th June, 2019

  • 10:29 PM - Lanefan mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ore unharmed. Which very neatly gets you out of having to describe much detail at all, as the mechanics can cover all sorts of things at once. Mechanics like this are a cop-out, I think - instead of just calling for Brawn tests (low granularity of detail) I'd far rather be told the actual situation and then asked what my character specifically does about it (higher granulartity of detail). 'How shallow?' is a very relevant detail - if it's 4' deep then the Humans can likely walk on the bottom but the Hobbits and Gnomes are going to have to swim or be carried. How long and-or beamy the ship is gives - for those the least bit familiar with anything maritime - a quick idea about how much room there is on board, about how the ship is likely to behave in rough weather, and about how fast it is or isn't likely to go; and simply saying "you're on a solidly-built 70-foot three-master, narrow beam for its length, two decks and a hold, and probably deep draft" takes maybe five seconds. Maxperson lists some examples where differences in imagination between DM and player have caused grief, and that's exactly the sort of thing I don't want to see happen. When the DM says the field is strewn with large rocks I-as-player shouldn't have to ask how big they are. I've had characters die due to just this sort of thing - in one instance I remember clearly even though I asked for more clarification several times the DM's description still didn't put his picture of the scene into my mind but instead left me seeing a different one; I based my actions around my-as-player's perception of the scene and my character was dead within the round. For the colourful Bard, as the colourful part is obviously intended to be significant I'd probably ask the player to note on the character sheet a few details of what pieces of clothing are usually what colours, just so it's locked in in case it ever becomes relevant later. ("we need a distress flag and that bright red tunic will do nicely - give it ...
  • 02:07 PM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ure. (Consider eg TS Eliot as a famous example.) But those are hardly typical teaching texts, and my guess is that the number of ESL classes that use this sort of literary criticism to try and teach English is pretty small. lacking any literary effort on the part of the DM, all these things are are bags of game stats. There's nothing distinguishing them. Or, to put it another way, what's the difference between a 5 hp orc and a 5 hp goblin?If I'm using the AD&D MM, one is brown and one is yellow. If I'm using DDG, one worships Gruumsh and one worships Maglubiyet. A person can describe and explain things without aiming at literary beauty. despite REPEATED requests that you clarify what "literary", "literary quality" and "wordcraft" and various other words you've tried to toss into the mix, you've never actually sat down and defined what you mean by these terms in a way that folks in the thread understand what you're on about. Clearly plenty of folks do - everyone but you, Maxperson and Imaro as far as I can tell. And frankly even Imaro seems to understand the point, despite protesting that it's unclear. He just disagrees with it - that is, he thinks that RPGing is a literary endeavour, and would find a game boring in which the GM didn't aim at literary quality in his/her narration. It seems worth mentioning at this point that not all disagreement is a result of unclear usage or uncertainty over definitions. Aesthetic debates aren't much like mathematics, in that respect at least. Anyway, to aim at literary quality is to try and produce pleasing, beautiful, evocative writing. Most poets do this. Most novelists do this. Fewer instructional writers do this - I've read recipe books that seem to aspire to literary quality, but never stereo or furniture assembly instructions. I've read a lot of academic papers over the years - these tend to aim at clarity, but many clearly do not aim at literary quality. Statutes, regulations, contracts and other legal instrument...

Saturday, 1st June, 2019

  • 05:48 PM - hawkeyefan mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Maxperson I feel like you care more about the technical definition than about if a GM or other adjudicator/facilitator is actually required. The way Fiasco works, no one would ever say there are 5 GMs. Also, there are other games that we can list besides Fiasco that donít require a GM. I mentioned Microscope just a while ago, and that doesnít require a GM. Nor does Kingdom, another RPG by the same author, Ben Robbins. Letís not get hung up on semantics and start quoting definitions at people. There are enough games that donít require a GM that we shouldnít include it in the list of essential things for a RPG.

Tuesday, 28th May, 2019

  • 05:43 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    So let's focus on what the actual lines of dispute are, rather than fight endlessly over the definition of literary.Yeah, I didn't expect this thread to be a debate about the meaning and scope of the term "literary". I thought it might be a discussion about whether or not wordcraft is a principal or essential means of evoking emotional responses in a RPG. The point of my OP is to deny such a claim. On the other hand, I believe that Hussar affirms such a claim, as does Imaro. I'm frankly not sure what Maxperson thinks about it. Everyone agrees with you @pemerton.This isn't true at all. Unless you've changed your mind, upthread you asserted that the use of wordcraft and associated performance is a key means of promoting emotional responses in RPGing. Which is what I am disagreeing with. ************************ On the issue of "playstyle arguments/agendas", which has been flagged by Bedrockgames and darkbard: I think (and hope) it's obvious that my OP is putting forward a view about where the aesthetic merit and aeshetic power of RPGIng lies, and therefore a view about what the point of RPGing ultimately is. I recognise that others will disagree. That's not uncommon in critical discussions. I'm not 100% sure that I agree with Eagleton that these "deep structures" of aesthetic evaluation correlate to, or express, social power relations and any resultant ideologies. That's a further, and harder, question. But as I posted upthread in reply to Aldarc, I do think that these aestheti...

Monday, 27th May, 2019

  • 10:20 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Sorry, Aldarc, but, which definition are YOU using? Until such time as you and Bedrockgames actually tell me which definition you want to use, then we can't actually have any sort of meaningful discussion. Are we going to use Maxperson's broader definition or not? Pick one and we'll stick with that. You say that I'm making a category error. That's only true if we're using the broader definition. And, well, I do think it's a complete dodge to say, "Well, pacing exists in other media, so, it's not literary". That's not true. It IS literary, as well as other things. Now, since TV, movies, books, short stories, etc, all have pacing concerns, then, it's fair to say that any narrative form (which is what I was arguing with Bedrockgames about, not simply literary form) will have pacing concerns. They have to. Now, Bedrockgames claims that he does not pay any attention to pacing whatsoever in his adventure creation, nor during play. Now, I have to take him at his word for that, but, to me, that sounds like a terrible game. And "ignore pacing" is advice I would never give to any DM. To me, that's horrible advice. But, in any case, can we at least just use ONE definition? Otherwise, we're just talking past...
  • 03:27 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Yeah. Again, the last six or seven pages of this "discussion" has all been because folks absolutely refuse to pin down what definition of "literary" they would like us to use. If Literary=high art, then this discussion is, for all intents and purposes, over because we all agree that RPGing isn't meant to be high art. So, Bedrockgames, Aldarc, and anyone else who cares to weigh in, would you PLEASE define your terms. What do YOU mean by "literary". Not, playstyle or any other dodge, or comparisons to baking a cake. What do YOU mean, and we'll discuss using THAT definition. Because, boys and girls, until such time as you folks want to plant the goal posts, this conversation is just going to keep circling the same rabbit hole. Maxperson is, if we use his definition of literary, 100% correct. But, if we use pemerton's definition, he's 100% wrong. So, which definition do you want us to use? Pick one, stick with it, and we can move on.

Friday, 24th May, 2019


Tuesday, 21st May, 2019

  • 03:14 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ady posted why crafted narration and conveying a situation that draws in the players might come into conflict. The first benefits from preparation (and the resulting opportunity to test, edit, etc). Whereas the second - like conversation, which has been my reiterated comparitor - benefits from spontaneous engagement within the back-and-forth at the table. EDIT: The description isn't what makes a situation in an RPG interesting: the situation is what makes interesting because it is interacting and part of a back and forth conversation. I honestly don't care if the GM is stumbling over words, uses the same adjective twice in a row for no reason, uses a ten dollar word that somewhat misses the mark, when a more precise 1 dollar word would do....those are all things I care about when I am reading quality books. When I am playing a game I am engaged with another human being and through them, a situation as my character.This is as good an account of the OP claim as any other. Imaro, Maxperson - you may disagree that what Bedrockgames describes here, and what I describe in the OP, is a good account of RPGing. That's fine and (it goes without saying) your prerogative. But I don't see why the discussion about this raises any issues about the meaning of words. I don't see how it helps the discussio by trying to argue that I, or Bedrockgames, is engaged in self-contradiction. Instead: tell us about how you see RPGs working. For instance, what do you see as the role of situation in RPGing. Why do you think the narratie crat with which a situation is presented is so important?

Monday, 20th May, 2019

  • 04:32 PM - Hriston mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    If you're not sure what I mean refer to the last post by @Maxperson for a pretty succinct explanation. Well, here's Maxperson's last post: Descriptions are what make the situation interesting. I can give you a situation of 10 gargoyles on a hill. One DM will make it bland and dull, the other through descriptions will make it interesting and exciting. Yep. I've been in RPGs that were dull and played like a board game. Bored game? From this, it seems that what you and Maxperson mean by presenting a situation well enough is that the situation is described. I agree that description is necessary, but I fail to see how merely describing a situation makes the formal qualities of that description the focus of the activity. If what you are claiming above is true then if given the same quality content that is communicated clearly there should never be deviation in how players respond to it (either being interested or not interested)... which begs the question if it's purely a question of quality of content and clarity then why can numero...
  • 03:35 AM - CleverNickName mentioned Maxperson in post Survivor Magic Jewelry (PART I)- AMULET OF THE PLANES WINS!
    What Maxperson said, except my first choice was the Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location.
  • 02:22 AM - Imaro mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Iím not sure what you mean by ďwell enoughĒ. Iím claiming that as long as the situation is clearly understood by the players, which is an issue with communication, not with quality of form/literary merit, and it fails to interest them nevertheless, that focusing on the artistry of its presentation is unlikely to generate the desired interest in the situation and is more likely to resemble some other form of entertainment that relies on such artistry, like a novel or a movie. If you're not sure what I mean refer to the last post by @Maxperson for a pretty succinct explanation. If what you are claiming above is true then if given the same quality content that is communicated clearly there should never be deviation in how players respond to it (either being interested or not interested)... which begs the question if it's purely a question of quality of content and clarity then why can numerous DM's try to hook their players to interact with the same content and get totally different responses from their players insofar as interest is concerned? Are you saying any and every DM who can't get his players interested in quality content must not be clearly communicating with their players? If not what are you saying is the cause? My bad. I was using ďflowery languageĒ as a euphemism for formal quality in narration, which I thought was fairly obvious. Sorry if that has caused any confusion in the discussion. Oh I was just making sure you understood that one did not equate to the other but it appears you already knew that an...

Thursday, 9th May, 2019

  • 12:36 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
    I can't understand pemerton 's reference to playing rolemaster since 1990Because Rolemaster players feel that being lectured by a D&D player about what realism in RPGing means is like an Australian lecturing a Canadian about what cold and snow are all about. Or to put it another way: I've done 100s and 100s of hours of process sim RPGing - far more than Maxperson has. Maxperson has, as far as I know, never played RM, never played RQ, never played C&S, and maybe has played some GURPS or HERO (I can't remember on these last two). I've been part of a play culture that has a very robust sense of what realism in RPGing means, and that is very conscious of the difference between and relationships between mechanical process and fictional content. And I can't make sense of what Maxperson is saying.


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Thursday, 20th June, 2019

  • 01:35 PM - lowkey13 quoted Maxperson in post Why the Druid Metal Restriction is Poorly Implemented
    It's not even a restriction at all in 5e. There's one line where it says that druids won't wear metal armor. Not can't. Won't. Making it a personal choice and not a restriction. What happens if a PC decides that he will? Nothing at all. All of his abilities work just fine with a druid wearing metal full plate and a metal shield. Counterpoint- All druids cannot wear metal, and reek of patchouli.
  • 01:06 PM - jasper quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that modules were different. You shouldn't look to them for what the base game expects. Yup Missed that. But you missing the part where ALOT of us use the modules as OFFFICAL WAY TO PLAY. It wasn't until I saw some of Gary's posts here mention lots of hirelings in a dungeon was one way to play.
  • 08:38 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that modules were different. You shouldn't look to them for what the base game expects. Why not? It's not like AD&D had a "core rules" divide. The modules were just as "official rules" as anything else. Now, if most modules were 2-3 PC's, then I might agree with your point. However, most of the modules were of the "6-9" characters variety. Dragonlance baselined with 8 characters. And, I would point out that this is precisely what I was talking about - people's experiences with AD&D vary really wildly depending on whether you were a module junkie like me or not. Again, it also points to the schizophrenic nature of AD&D. If 2-3 players (plus a DM) was expected, why the need for a "caller"? The example of play in the DMG includes 5 PC's plus a thief NPC. I'm thinking that a DM plus 2 PC's was probably not the presumption of the game.
  • 08:01 AM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    You say he would count as evil. Why? Is evil so much more powerful than good that someone who is the quintessential lawful good person in every other way, becomes evil with that one evil habit? Um. Maybe I interpreted ďabuses children on a regular basis to satisfy his appetitesĒ differently than you meant it, but it read to me like you were implying some Gilles de Rais stuff, which I donít think itís controversial to say makes someone evil, regardless of what other good they might do. Itís certainly an egoistic act, whatever you meant to imply, and by my standards therefore an evil act. If he indeed commits evil acts on a regular basis, then yes, heís evil, even if he has Good ideals. Is any evil act no matter how small enough to do the same? Certainly not, but you said it was on a regular basis, and the way I interpreted it, it was not a small evil act. I see what youíre getting at, though. Whatís the tipping point? Personally, I equate altruism to good and egoism to evil. This makes Good s...

Wednesday, 19th June, 2019

  • 08:12 PM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    It's worse than that, really. You can have an upstanding citizen who would sacrifice himself to save the community, helps little old ladies across the road, donates money to help orphaned children, but secretly also abuses those children on a regular basis to satisfy his appetites. Is he LG? Is he evil? Is he LG with evil tendencies? Something else? Most people don't fall solidly within a single alignment, but rather have multiple personality traits which fall regularly within two, three or even more alignments. That's why I prefer my players just come up with a personality for their PC and then I don't bother to look at their alignment. Thatís why I prefer to distinguish between a characterís ideology and their actions. The above character sounds like he holds Good ideals, but commits Evil actions. Which is fairly typical, to be honest. Most people tend to hold altruistic ideals in theory, but in actual practice behave more egoistically. At my table, that character would have Good written...
  • 07:25 PM - Oofta quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Turning A PC in for murder is not a betrayal. There can be no expectation that your gaming buddies are going to be okay with you murdering someone and not tell the police. The same goes for adventuring parties. It's been years since I watched Firefly, but IIRC Jayne had no connection to the pair and actually thought they were a threat to the ship. Getting money was icing on the cake. That does not mean he would have turned in Mal for a profit, Mal was a friend and someone who had his trust and respect. As far as Han Solo ... I'd still say he was CN. After all he did shoot first in my version of the movies. He did what he did for money and then out of friendship and loyalty to Luke and Leia. I'm not convinced he did it for some greater good. After a while he may have shifted alignment somewhat, but how much of that was just because he was caught up in everything is impossible to tell. All we really know is that after the original trilogy and after he and Leia split he went back to bei...
  • 05:52 PM - 5ekyu quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    No. Oversleeping and showing up late for your shift is "not perfect." Deciding to betray your companions is freaking unreliable and untrustworthy.And in the course of the show and the movie most every character that got any development at all at one time or another made an intentional choice to defy orders, go against the group etc - even in cases that put others in danger - sometimes cuz they were led astray by those playing on their weaknesses. Remember the case where Mal's flaws led him to get taken out by Mrs Reynolds delivering the ship into the clutches of bad guys? The doctor not letting them in on how dangerous River was until after she blew? Heck, River with imbeded programming? How many times did River collapse at times of crisis, causing problems? In 5e terms, each character had flaws. Each character saw those flaws come up in ways that really showed them as "unreliable" and at times willing to let those flaws put the others at risk. That's maybe a bit of the reasoning behind...
  • 02:57 PM - Celebrim quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    How is reading what is says straight out as what it says straight out as "way too much?" If the game is ideal for three of more, a single dragon cannot be balanced against 6-9. That would not be ideal. Rather, one dragon is balanced against around three so as to be ideal and if you have more players than that, you add more dragons. I have no stake in this "how many players is the right number of players" side discussion, and by quoting you I'm not at all asserting that you are being particularly or especially ridiculous compared to some of the other things that have been claimed. But, the whole argument strikes me as ridiculous, and this sort of claim just seems well beneath the logic and insight you'd normally bring to a thread. 1 Dragon = 3 PCs? Really? Is that how you think it has ever worked? Are dragons and PC's as standardized as coins?
  • 02:52 PM - jasper quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Below is the presumption from 1e. You guys are looking at modules, often created for tournament or convention play, where you had more players than normal. From page 7 of the 1e PHB: "The game is ideally for three or more adult players: one player must serve as the Dungeon Master, the shaper of the fantasy milieu, the "world" in which all action will take place." That's it. That's the presumption. Three or more. And if the minimum three still qualifies "ideal," then encounters would have to be based around that number or close to it. Four anyone? oh! Oh! Mr. Kotter. What about kid players do they count. Or from saltmarsh 1981 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh is the first installment in a series of three modules designed and developed in the United Kingdom, for beginning adventures with the AD&D rules. The adventure can be played by 5-10 characters of levels 1-3. This module contains large-scale maps, full background information, and detailed encounter descriptions for the players and DM....
  • 02:33 PM - Celebrim quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    I stopped being as careful, because the game became waaaaaaay easier. This not at all my experience. ''Ease" or "difficulty" is entirely a matter of the DM. I can make a killer dungeon in any edition. I can run through a stack of photocopied character sheets in any edition. It's not particularly hard in any edition to make the game difficult. So I'm having a hard time understanding how you can judge which edition was easier. Is poison less immediately a "save or die" sort of thing? Sure. But that doesn't make 1e harder than later editions. It just meant as a DM you had to be more careful about how you handled creatures with poison, and as a player how you fought them. Energy drain is similar. Honestly, the rate which I had PC's lost to poison and energy drain hasn't changed much between the two editions. That's probably not a ubiquitous experience, but for example with poison most DMs (including myself) in 1e either carefully handled poisonous monsters or if we were going t...
  • 01:55 PM - billd91 quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Below is the presumption from 1e. You guys are looking at modules, often created for tournament or convention play, where you had more players than normal. From page 7 of the 1e PHB: "The game is ideally for three or more adult players: one player must serve as the Dungeon Master, the shaper of the fantasy milieu, the "world" in which all action will take place." That's it. That's the presumption. Three or more. And if the minimum three still qualifies "ideal," then encounters would have to be based around that number or close to it. Four anyone? Why not three players and a GM? That's even closer than 4 in this case! Honestly, you're reading way too much into that statement. It comes nowhere close to making the same statement about the number of players that 3e does with its 4 player design assumption.
  • 06:36 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    AD&D for us back in the 80's was 3-6 players. Though most modules were written for 6-10 PC. We just never had that many people to play. Yeah, I realized I said PC's and I should have said "characters". There would likely be 3-6 players and a mitt full of NPC's as well. At least, that's what the presumption was. Well darn. I guess I need to call up my 3 gaming buddies and tell them that all those years of playing 1e and 2e didn't count, because we didn't do it your way. Your the one telling me that the presumption was 4 PC's. That an encounter should have multiple dragons because I have so many PC's. But, that's not true. I had the standard number of characters that was expected by the game. 4 PC's as a group wasn't a standard presumption until 3e. Sure, I played with less than that many characters too. But, we're talking about the game, not the game you played at your table or the game I played at my table. That's one of the biggest problems I always have with talking ab...
  • 04:39 AM - 5ekyu quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Um. Sometimes giving in to your own desires to the detriment of your comrades and selling them out is the definition of unreliable. Even if he did one single time, they could never trust him again.No, it's the definition of not perfect. In fact, they did trust him after. Malcolm did specifically when he realized Jayne was actually ashamed of what he had done, not just upset he got caught. This is why alignments tend to not be extremes - all or nothing one-slip changes.
  • 04:29 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Whoops double post. My bad.
  • 04:28 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    ...f holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons. See this is why I have such a hard time taking you seriously Maxperson. You obviously never played adnd. 6-9 pcs was the standard group. Four pcs is a 3e thing.
  • 04:18 AM - coolAlias quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    This is a very bad example. It only suits demons to do so because they'll be destroyed if they don't. They aren't choosing to be in an army. They are forced to by fear of death. CE, "Might makes right." Just like it only suits a Chaotic character to not break laws or betray their friends, either of which might very well result in a death sentence?
  • 01:01 AM - Lanefan quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Yeah, a swarm of wraiths could really mess up your day. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons.In fairness, 1e did generally assume a larger party size: parties of 6-9 PCs were commonplace. Most 0e-1e modules were written with this kind of party size in mind - check their intro notes and you'll see. It...

Tuesday, 18th June, 2019

  • 03:03 PM - Celebrim quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    And worth nowhere as much XP. I went with ancient red dragon to illustrate just how piddly combat XP was. Especially vs. XP from treasure. Depending on the style of treasure allocation, XP from combat tended to be between 1/3rd and 1/10th as much as the XP from treasure. You played with a generous DM, or perhaps one who didn't know how to run monsters. If the DM wasn't worried about killing you and used tactics that many of the monsters would know and use, combats were not easy, especially when you factored in save or die and energy drains. The question I have for that statement is, "Is relying on Save or Die or Energy Drains to challenge PCs fun?" I dunno, then again, we left AD&D as soon as 2e came out and 2e was even worse - fighters really were damage gods. The problem started in 1e Unearthed Arcana. Fighters post UA were dishing about twice as much damage at a given level as the game had been built around, but even before UA AD&D had a problem that almost everything i...
  • 08:52 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    What you do is based on your personality and what you believe, though. There are many, many reasons why someone would not report an orcish army, and you can find people of all alignments among them. The problem is, we're not mind readers. We don't know why this character did X. All we know is that he did X. And, really, while there might be all sorts of reasons, reliability isn't one of them. :D If I were going to describe a CN ftom fiction, Phillipe the Mouse from Ladyhawke. Willing to steal from anybody, distrusts mostly everybody but not the type to just kill for fun. Jayne from Firefly, likely, especially when the money gets good. Ok, now, let's use Jayne. Would you consider Jayne to be reliable? Is loyal, reliable, or anything similar be a proper descriptor of that character? CN Han Solo start of ANH. I'd probably put Han Solo as just neutral. He's not actively opposing the empire, after all. He might not like it, but, he's also not going to do anything about i...
  • 08:39 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    In 1e an ancient red dragon was worth 7758, or 1939 xp each for a party of 4. An ancient red dragon can easily have 250,000gp worth of treasure, not including magic items. That equates to 62,500 xp each for that party of 4. Gaining the treasure is 32 times more xp than killing it, and you get that same exp if you steal the treasure rather than fight the dragon. D&D was originally concieved as a get the loot game where you sometimes had to fight, but really tried to avoid it when possible so you didn't end up dead. Now, how exactly did you manage to get that couple of tons of treasure out of the lair without fighting the dragon? Again, why did folks avoid combat when the PC's after about 6th level were FAR more powerful than anything they were facing? And Ancient Huge Red Dragon had 92 HP (IIRC). That was about 1 round of damage output for a 9th level party of 6-9 PC's.


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