View Profile: Maxperson - Morrus' Unofficial Tabletop RPG News
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 05:09 AM
    Well darn. I guess I need to call up my 3 gaming buddies and tell them that all those years of playing 1e and 2e didn't count, because we didn't do it your way.
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 03:29 AM
    Well, my example was for 4. If you're at 6-9 we up the number of dragons and treasure is all. The math still works out the same as far as XP from monsters vs. XP from treasure.
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Today, 03:28 AM
    It was and wasn't for me as a player. As a player I enjoyed risk and took great pains to scout and avoid ambushes, as well as avoiding undead when possible. Then 3e came out and saves were allowed against energy drain. At first I was very happy. Then I noticed how easy those saves were, how you got two chances to make them, and how easy it was to get restoration. I played 3e from the day it...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:01 PM
    Alchemy Jug 29 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 29 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 7-2=5 Broom of Flying 25+1=26 Carpet of Flying 28 Crystal Ball 10 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 10 Cube of Force 23 Cubic Gate 23
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:09 PM
    This was the consensus of the non-conversational side in the other thread. Something short and evocative to describe the room and mood, and then questions/statements if necessary.
    23 replies | 645 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:33 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of holding 29 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 8 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 28 Crystal Ball 12 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 12 Cube of Force 25 Cubic Gate 23
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:30 PM
    And worth nowhere as much XP. I went with ancient red dragon to illustrate just how piddly combat XP was. Especially vs. XP from treasure. You played with a generous DM, or perhaps one who didn't know how to run monsters. If the DM wasn't worried about killing you and used tactics that many of the monsters would know and use, combats were not easy, especially when you factored in save...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Yesterday, 01:25 PM
    A bag of holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:55 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 29 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 10-2=8 Broom of Flying 23+1=24 Carpet of Flying 27 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 8 Crystal Ball 14 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 14 Cube of Force 24
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:24 PM
    In 1e an ancient red dragon was worth 7758, or 1939 xp each for a party of 4. An ancient red dragon can easily have 250,000gp worth of treasure, not including magic items. That equates to 62,500 xp each for that party of 4. Gaining the treasure is 32 times more xp than killing it, and you get that same exp if you steal the treasure rather than fight the dragon. D&D was originally...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 01:56 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 31 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 10 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 27 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 8 Crystal Ball 14 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 14 Cube of Force 24
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:39 AM
    You focus on tricking monsters, but ignore that it talks about avoiding/disarming traps as well. There are no monsters(typically) involved with traps, and yet the DM is supposed to come up with an encounter level for them in order to assign non-combat XP. Modules are a different beast. In order to appeal to the widest audience, they have to be written murderhobo and then DMs can add or...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 01:56 AM
    I'm not sure about page 84. I'll look in a second. However, the intro section of the PHB says the following. "While initial adventuring usually takes place in an underworld dungeon setting, play gradually expands to encompass other such dungeons, town and city activities, wilderness explorations, and journeys into other dimensions, planes, times, worlds, and so forth." It's pretty clear...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:23 PM
    In my experience, this is less about the DM failing to be engaged, and more that the DM has failed to learn the box text in advance and just reads it as he goes. If he had learned it in advance and was able to describe the scene with the box text as the guide, the players would have been more engaged.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:12 PM
    I agree. If nobody wants to engage with the content, then the content doesn't matter. If "it's the actual content that matters,'' content determines whether people engage or not. Now, I clearly do not agree that "it's the actual content that matters." I think both content and presentation matter equally. Of course, you can never guarantee engagement. 100% content, 100% presentation,...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 05:06 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 4 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 12 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 12 Crystal Ball 16 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 16
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 02:11 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 6 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 12 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14-2=12 Crystal Ball 16 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 07:08 AM
    You ever read Spellsinger? It's not a world with no humans, but humans are definitely in the minority, with animals making up most of the intelligent population.
    184 replies | 3892 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 03:47 AM
    I'd go bronze age.
    184 replies | 3892 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Saturday, 15th June, 2019, 05:22 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 10 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14-2=12 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 2
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 15th June, 2019, 03:06 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 10 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 21 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 4 Crystal Ball 16
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 05:41 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 24 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14-2=12 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 19+1=20 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 10 Crystal Ball 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:12 PM
    Okay. Thanks for the update!
    79 replies | 4419 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:07 PM
    Are there any plans to address them?
    79 replies | 4419 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 02:02 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 22 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 20 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 12 Crystal Ball 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 07:43 AM
    I hear licking exploding toads can get you there, too.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:02 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 10 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 23 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Carpet of Flying 25 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16 -2=14 Chime of Opening 12
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:24 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 9 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 23 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 20 Carpet of Flying 25 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16 Chime of Opening 14
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:21 PM
    Bad analogy. This thread debate using basketball would be... What's more important in playing basketball, offense, defense, shooting or dribbling? Theatrics in most sports is nearly non-existent. It shows up a little bit after touchdowns, goals and such, but for most of the game it's not there. If you wanted to use a "sport" where theatrics and the sport might be on equal ground, go with...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
    4 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 01:18 PM
    It wouldn't be charisma if it didn't work. ;) Speaking of charisma. In my games I make note of the charisma of the PCs. Even if the most eloquent player gives me an amazing speech, if his PC has a charisma of 4 I'm going to filter that speech though his charisma and the NPCs will hear it different. Conversely, a stammering and stuttering player whose PC is a charisma 20 paladin, will have...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
    1 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:21 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 21 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 16-2=14 Broom of Flying 21+1=22 Candle of Invocation 4 Carpet of Flying 24 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:17 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 11 Bag of Holding 25 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 16 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 16 Broom of Flying 20 Candle of Invocation 4 Carpet of Flying 24 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:10 PM
    No. A lot of people with great ideas have been ignored by people, because the one with the idea didn't say it right. A lot of horrors have happened, because someone with a bad idea that people generally wouldn't listen to, were sold on it by someone saying it the right way. How you say something is very often more important than what you are saying.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:06 PM
    I would argue that those are just unorthodox methods of narration. They're still communicating ideas. Synonyms of narration include portrayal and sketch. I would have liked to have seen that.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 01:41 PM
    There isn't for me since it's all pretend. There is for the NPCs, though. If the PCs torture a thief to get information and it gets out, they could end up imprisoned. Torture is generally going to be illegal unless the government is doing it, and even then not all governments do it. The PCs reputation will suffer in any case as the locals view them as bad men. Whether the PCs engage in...
    273 replies | 7130 view(s)
    2 XP
  • OB1's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 05:43 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 11 Bag of Holding 26 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18-2=16 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 18+1=19 Candle of Invocation 7 Carpet of Flying 23 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 02:02 PM
    I am at peace. For now I have seen everything.
    419 replies | 16956 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 01:19 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 20 Aisle of Dread - 0 - Dread is dead.
    210 replies | 8176 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 01:18 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Beans 10 Bag of Holding 27 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 19 Candle of Invocation 9 Carpet of Flying 23 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 03:26 AM
    Are the blocking/blocked bugs fixed with this change?
    79 replies | 4419 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Tuesday, 11th June, 2019, 02:57 AM
    My dad's argument will totally rob your dad's argument. He starts off with a Masked-man Fallacy. Then he slides into a Broken Window Fallacy. And then, oh God, he did it again. He got distracted by an If-by Whisky. I guess I'll bail him out in the morning.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:46 PM
    Less than 1 spell per spell level over bards, and half that over clerics and druids is hardly what I would call "quite a bit." Then 90% of the time there should be no delay. Most of the remaining 10% should also be no delay as they should know their spells and be thinking about what to switch out while watches are being taken and other things being described. The length of time it takes...
    26 replies | 1045 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:28 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 22 Isle of Dread - 6 Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) - 3
    210 replies | 8176 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:27 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 28 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 18 Broom of Flying 20 Candle of Invocation 15 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:23 PM
    Monster X
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:04 PM
    Alchemy Jug 26 Bag of Beans 14 Bag of Holding 30 Bag of Tricks 26 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20-2=18 Broom of Flying 19+1=20 Candle of Invocation 15 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 04:47 AM
    I'm okay with not knowing what a monster is if my PC also doesn't know. However, I wouldn't accept the above. I'd ask you to describe to me what it looked like. What a strange creature looks like is every bit as important to me as what it's doing, even when what it's doing is charging me. Does it have 2 arms? 4 arms? Claws? Hands? Does it have a mouth full of fangs or a mouth full of...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 02:52 AM
    No. I'm done. If he doesn't get it, he doesn't get i.
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:26 AM
    When the appropriate type of spell hits a PC or NPC, I will determine a save DC for the items in question and roll to see which ones catch fire and are destroyed, and which are fine. If the item in question is a container, anything inside is safe if the container saves. The DC will depend on the power of the spell in question and/or the power of the being using it. An Efreeti for example will...
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:21 AM
    Auto mechanics. If my game mechanics start talking, I'm checking myself into a 72 hour hold.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 01:07 AM
    Hrm. I thought I started the mechanics thing with two mechanics talking to one another. :confused:
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:39 AM
    The scenario was a conversation between two mechanics, though.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:11 AM
    And I'll reiterate, "especially" just creates a subgroup of literature that is more preferred. It does not invalidate all other literature, or render it valueless.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Monday, 10th June, 2019, 12:08 AM
    The attack is just as lethal to the guy with 150 as it is to the guy with 10. The guy with 150 just has a lot of skill and luck and got the heck out of the way of enough of it that a worst, it lit some of his stuff on fire.
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 09:50 PM
    Wood and clothing appear on lists of flammable items. I said that damage is not abstract like hit points. You can't cast a fireball and do ice damage. You can't cast a fireball and do luck damage. You can't cast a fireball and to divine providence damage. Unless you can change the energy type, it always does fire damage. Hit points on the other hand can be whatever you need them to be.
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 09:32 PM
    I am not using the first definition. I quoted the Oxford definition, which matches the first one. I also looked at multiple dictionaries. You shouldn't assume. The first definition is from the Oxford dictionary. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/literary There is also, https://www.dictionary.com/browse/literary "1. pertaining to or of the nature of books and writings,...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 06:12 PM
    I don't have to. It's literally THE definition. If you have an issue with it, argue the case with those who defined it. It absolutely does have a point. Once people can accept the facts and understand that anything written is literary, the question stops being, "Is this literary" and becomes, "What level of literary is preferred?" or perhaps, "What is the average level of literary...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:42 PM
    So now we're back to everything, including high quality literary language, being conversational English. Most of us gamers know and understand high quality literary language, so it would be conversational to us.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:09 PM
    In the context that you used it, it does. "They are speaking conversational English, but they aren't" is what it amounted to.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:01 PM
    Why does it have to be one or the other? With highly limited prep time I work on a few general ideas to present, so content. I can improv the descriptions and encounter details as I go. If I couldn't improv as well as I do, I'd call off the game for that week so I could prep both and we'd play board games. Terraforming Mars, Scythe, Clank and Tyrants of the Underdark are our current...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:18 PM
    I wouldn't call Corwin, Bleys and Benedict sappy. :D
    210 replies | 8176 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:17 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 27 Isle of Dread - 12 Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) - 6
    210 replies | 8176 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:16 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 20​ - Not always useful, but interesting. Bag of Holding 27 - Useful, but boring. Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20 Broom of Flying 21 Candle of Invocation 14 Carpet of Flying 22 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 04:06 PM
    It really doesn't matter. The higher the temperature, the shorter the duration required to set things on fire. Again, this is a function of hit points, not damage. Hit points are abstract, not damage. 42 points of fire is 42 points of fire. No. Just the hit points are abstract, not the damage. Fireballs do fire damage. The don't do luck damage. They don't do skill damage. ...
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:56 PM
    I'm sorry I did that, but... You look good, but... You did a great job, but... When you add in the "but," you are invalidating what came before by carving out an exception to explain why what came before is wrong.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:32 PM
    Literary only doesn't apply if you incorrectly believe that only high quality literary works are literary. If you believe that all things written are literary(the definition), then any time you are choosing these more evocative words to use over those words, you are moving up the literary scale. Using the named wood and describing briefly the carving, was more evocative than #1. Even though...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 03:26 PM
    But neither are those mechanics speaking conversational English, which is what Bedrockgames says he wants.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • OB1's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 02:40 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 19 Bag of Holding 28 Bag of Tricks 25 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20 Broom of Flying 21 Candle of Invocation 16 Carpet of Flying 20+1=21 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 20-2=18
    192 replies | 3859 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 07:43 AM
    The triggers are both the spell and the flammable property, not just the flammable property. A flammable object all by itself doesn't burst into flame. The fire spell hitting an object that is not flammable does not ignite it on fire. It requires both triggers to be present. The match test might seem reasonable to you, but it's far too unrealistic and unreasonable for me. A match pales...
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:59 AM
    For descriptiveness, I think I probably fall in-between you and Imaro/Hussar. That just puts you and your colleagues beyond the realm of everyday conversational English, though. The average American reads at the 7th/8th grade level. For the most part, they aren't going to speak much better than they can read.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:28 AM
    Hey, if all it takes to be using conversational English is to use it in a conversation, then even the most high quality literary language used in an RPG counts as conversational. It's pretty well understood that when people here have been discussing conversational English, they mean using the simple words and not the ones that fall outside of normal, everyday conversation.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 05:23 AM
    I'm not talking in absolutes. However, in 35+ years of gaming with more than 100 different people, I can't remember anyone who would rather hear, "There's a long, thick, hard, round, six foot, brown wooden staff on the ground." than "There's an intricately carved feywood staff on the ground." I imagine you aren't the only one, but I'm pretty confident that you are in a small minority of people...
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 02:05 AM
    Yeah. They seem to have fixed the exp bug and quoting bug. I'm not positive about the edit bug since I haven't edited a post yet, but I imagine that one is fixed, too.
    79 replies | 4419 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 02:03 AM
    It's not about the length or the meta. It's about the language. The meta COULD come into play, but if it does, it's in addition to the interest generated by the language. Here. Description #1. There's a long, thick, hard, round, six foot, brown wooden staff on the ground. Description #2. There's an intricately carved feywood staff on the ground. #1 is both accurate and longer than...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 01:26 AM
    The description alters interest in many, if not most people. I've seen a lot of people who will ignore a staff on the ground, fewer who will ignore description #2, and very, very few who will ignore one described with #3 or 4.
    1470 replies | 39970 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 01:24 AM
    That seems reasonable. For myself, I'd probably give it a chance to catch fire at 25-49% and guarantee it at 50%
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Sunday, 9th June, 2019, 01:02 AM
    This makes total sense if the amount of initial fire damage is the equivalent of a match. If it's doing say 12 points of fire damage to the target, though, it's a hell of a lot hotter than a match and will catch correspondingly more items on fire in that instant.
    32 replies | 695 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 11:24 PM
    So opinions aren't something sacred. You can be wrong with one. For example, if you felt that the sun was a cold, dark ball of ice. You are free to feel that the distinction isn't that meaningful, but that won't make me pedantic To the example. Me: "Excuse me, but would you please tell me where the elevator is?" You: "Follow those lemmings." Me: ::begins following the lemmings,...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 10:35 PM
    It's neither pedantic, nor does it answer the question, except that ANY answer is technically an answer. "Where are the elevators?" - "Goonygoogoo!" It's an answer. The problem is that the OP doesn't get to decide what is literary quality for anyone but himself. Some people will have a low bar, others middle, and yet others high. That's the problem with using terms like literary...
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    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 07:39 PM
    So is Alcatraz, but like your example it doesn't answer the question where they are. It could be an answer to how do you get to the elevator, though. For example, if I ask you where Los Angeles is, telling me to join the wagon train going west does not tell me where Los Angeles is. Telling me to get on that airplane over there does not tell me where Los Angeles is. I didn't ask you how to get...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 07:15 PM
    This is one of those rulings over rules moments. You're going to have to look at the situation. Is it a large ball of thin, super dry paper? It takes a lot of damage really fast. Is it a rock covered in some dry moss? It takes only a little and then goes out. Are you in a desert? A swamp? Circumstances will change how this should play out.
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 07:06 PM
    The second isn't a literary answer to the question, which is probably why it does almost nothing for the person asking where the elevators are. Perhaps if you come up with an example that has both the increased literary quality AND answers the question, we can figure out which is better, worse, or whatever. Until then, these examples don't help us with this discussion. I think it's...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 06:54 PM
    Desert of Desolation - 29 Isle of Dread - 17 Castle Amber (Chateau d'Amberville) - 7
    210 replies | 8176 view(s)
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    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 04:51 PM
    Strange. For me it acted like the edit bug.
    79 replies | 4419 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 04:06 PM
    I can confirm that it works to quote, but there is still a bug with it. It condenses the quote into paragraph form when it's not supposed to be. For example... First 1 Second 2 Third 3 Fourth 4 Fifth 5 Gets turned into...
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 03:59 PM
    Alchemy Jug 23Apparatus of Kwalish 0 - Apparatus of Kwalsquish!Bag of Beans 23Bag of Holding 26Bag of Tricks 24Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 18Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 20Broom of Flying 23Candle of Invocation 17Carpet of Flying 19Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 20Chime of Opening 20Crystal Ball 18Crystal Ball of Mind Reading 14Crystal Ball of Telepathy 20Crystal Ball of...
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    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 06:50 AM
    No, but "any reviewer" is just giving an opinion on what is quality literary work, not any sort of fact. One reviewer might not view anything less than the quality of Shakespeare as quality. Another might view Cat in the Hat as quality literature. A third might do the same with Mad Magazine. It's also subjective. Sure, but in the end it's just your opinion on what is quality...
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    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 06:45 AM
    We never had issues with THAC0 in any of our 2e games over the years. The math was just too simple to do for us to have an issue with it.
    166 replies | 5525 view(s)
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 05:35 AM
    Way to deliberately ignore the important part of my post. You know, in your first response to me it actually sounded as if you might debate this one in good faith. I should have known better.
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  • Maxperson's Avatar
    Saturday, 8th June, 2019, 04:35 AM
    This is what he said. "Somewhat contra Lanefan, it often doesn't matter at all if the players think different things about the fiction." Where in there does it specify non-key details? It doesn't. He was very general with his claim.
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Wednesday, 19th June, 2019


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Wednesday, 19th June, 2019

  • 04:29 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Whoops double post. My bad.
  • 04:28 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    ...f holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons. See this is why I have such a hard time taking you seriously Maxperson. You obviously never played adnd. 6-9 pcs was the standard group. Four pcs is a 3e thing.

Monday, 17th June, 2019

  • 03:43 AM - Oofta mentioned Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Maxperson, you do understand that sometimes misunderstandings happen, right? My scenario was that the slave could realistically be freed and the way your response was phrased it sounded like the LG PC would not free them. That the only way to free the slaves was to overthrow the government and change the law. That until the law was changed, slavery should go unopposed. LG: Slavery is unjust and the tyrannical government enslaving the people should be overthrown. New just laws against slavery should be instated. While overthrowing the government may or may not be the LG thing to do*, in many cases it won't be possible. Freeing the slaves was possible. Forums are not always a great place to discuss topics, but when I say "I have no idea what you're saying" that's an admission on my part that, well, I have no idea what you're saying. Perhaps you should clarify before you start accusing people of constructing a strawman. *As much as my LG PC may hate the tyrannical government they may not ...

Wednesday, 12th June, 2019

  • 07:40 PM - uzirath mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...I had the opportunity to do a two-year folklore study of RPGs. (This was amazing. Still pinching myself.) I referred in my last post to the "torture" of typing up transcripts. That was a big part of the project. I ended up with hundreds of hours of recordings of live D&D games. As I analyzed that data, it was surprising to me that some of the most compelling games (from the perspective of the players at the table) did not depend on strong rhetoric, great writing, lots of GM prep, etc. At the time, I wasn't primarily focusing on that element and didn't even have a vocabulary for talking about it (this thread is a couple decades late), but it stuck with me. To the extent you do not enjoy longer narration, that's fine! That's a preference! But ... and I'm going to say this one more time ... just because someone prefers Hemingway over Henry Miller doesn't mean that they are both effective at what they do. Follow me? Yes. I agree with you. My post was in response to the idea that Maxperson's maxim, "How you say something is very often more important than what you are saying," applies universally to all forms of communication. I think the statement is more applicable to communication styles that require the words to stand on their own. Written communication, especially, benefits from a better presentation because there are no conversational elements, no facial expressions, no gestures, no ability to interrupt and ask questions, etc. Speeches and theatrical performances create a similar separation of performer and audience, though communication can be achieved through things other than words. The playing of an RPG, at least when you're around a traditional tabletop, is more like a conversation, which is judged by different criteria. Not saying there ain't overlap. Not saying that a great voice actor can't add a lot to a game (personally, I like that stuff). Not saying that some groups might not play quite differently. But I'm largely sold on the premise that if I'm help...

Sunday, 9th June, 2019

  • 05:41 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    But I’m beginning to see why we’re all having a hard time coming to a consensus....it’s because we actually seem to have one, it’s just that what I see as pretty basic communication, you’re viewing as carefully wrought wordplay.I don't agree that there's a consensus: I can't really tell what Maxperson thinks, but Imaro and Hussar have made claims about the need for entertaining/evocative narration that I think clearly contradict the position I asserted in the OP. But one complicating fact pertains to vocabularly: eg I wouldn't regard cadaverous as a word to describe a Githyanki as especially remarkable or a-conversational, but Hussar probably would, and maybe Bedrockgames also. What counts as every day vocabularly among a group of RPGers is pretty highly variable and contingent on a range of factors (social background/status, educational levels, occupation, etc). I'm a humanities/social sciene academic (philosophy and law) and many of the people I talk to on a regular basis (ie the people I work with, my students, etc) are lilkewise, or are aspiring to be. So I think my every day vocaublary is probably richer than the New York Times. This is why I have brought it back to what are we aiming for? What counts as success, as good RPGing? What should a GM focus on? And I'm sayin...
  • 05:33 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    I’m sure mine and pemerton’s ideas don’t exactly match, no. But that’s fine. I don’t entirely agree with his premise, but I understand it, and I think he has a point. But I’m only speaking for myself. I would tend to think of "rictus grin" as falling on the literary side of things, as does Hussar. As I've posted, it does no harm if it doesn't impede (what I regard as) the real point of play. It has a face like a skull might do just as well. I personally can't remember how I've described githyanki in the past - I suspect I'm more likely to have shown a picture, such as the one on the front of the Fiend Folio. More generally, and feeding this into the current Maxperson - Ovinomancer interaction, I think that the role of description in RPGing is easily overestimated. It prioritises immersive imagination orver protagonistic inhabitation. Whereas the latter is the distinctive virtue of RPGs as games that are about producing a shared fiction. All this said, I think you've fully understood my points in this thread, seem to agree at least to some extent, and have made many helpful posts into it for which I thank you.

Saturday, 8th June, 2019

  • 09:02 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ith their evocative and engaging performances. To put it more genreally, you have said that RPG participants should keep in mind the literary quality of their narration, and aim at it being good. Of course you recognise that success will probably be mixed. That is what I'm disagreeing with when I say that RPGing is not a literary endeavour, that it doesn't aim at literary virtues, that situation and the call to action, rather than beauty or wordcraft, is central. I can cash this out by reference to rulebooks if you like. The 2nd ed AD&D PHB says that a player should try to bring his/her PC to life by entertaining portrayal and characterisation eg does s/he smell? does s/he belch? does s/he finger her prayer beads in moments of indecision? Unlesss I've badly misunderstood you, you agree with this. Whereas my claim is that that advice is at best tangential, and at worst actively bad, if we want excellent, exciting, engaging, RPGing. Or an example that came up in this thread. Maxperson said that a RPG gets better if the GM narrates the dust from the opening of the secret door, adding to the "depth and feel of the game". A lot of GM advice manuals say simiar things. Whereas, as I posted upthread, my advice to a GM on how to add to the depth and feel of the game would be very different: work on your situations, and your consequences, and let the narrative details take care of themselves.

Friday, 7th June, 2019

  • 10:29 PM - Lanefan mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ore unharmed. Which very neatly gets you out of having to describe much detail at all, as the mechanics can cover all sorts of things at once. Mechanics like this are a cop-out, I think - instead of just calling for Brawn tests (low granularity of detail) I'd far rather be told the actual situation and then asked what my character specifically does about it (higher granulartity of detail). 'How shallow?' is a very relevant detail - if it's 4' deep then the Humans can likely walk on the bottom but the Hobbits and Gnomes are going to have to swim or be carried. How long and-or beamy the ship is gives - for those the least bit familiar with anything maritime - a quick idea about how much room there is on board, about how the ship is likely to behave in rough weather, and about how fast it is or isn't likely to go; and simply saying "you're on a solidly-built 70-foot three-master, narrow beam for its length, two decks and a hold, and probably deep draft" takes maybe five seconds. Maxperson lists some examples where differences in imagination between DM and player have caused grief, and that's exactly the sort of thing I don't want to see happen. When the DM says the field is strewn with large rocks I-as-player shouldn't have to ask how big they are. I've had characters die due to just this sort of thing - in one instance I remember clearly even though I asked for more clarification several times the DM's description still didn't put his picture of the scene into my mind but instead left me seeing a different one; I based my actions around my-as-player's perception of the scene and my character was dead within the round. For the colourful Bard, as the colourful part is obviously intended to be significant I'd probably ask the player to note on the character sheet a few details of what pieces of clothing are usually what colours, just so it's locked in in case it ever becomes relevant later. ("we need a distress flag and that bright red tunic will do nicely - give it ...
  • 02:07 PM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ure. (Consider eg TS Eliot as a famous example.) But those are hardly typical teaching texts, and my guess is that the number of ESL classes that use this sort of literary criticism to try and teach English is pretty small. lacking any literary effort on the part of the DM, all these things are are bags of game stats. There's nothing distinguishing them. Or, to put it another way, what's the difference between a 5 hp orc and a 5 hp goblin?If I'm using the AD&D MM, one is brown and one is yellow. If I'm using DDG, one worships Gruumsh and one worships Maglubiyet. A person can describe and explain things without aiming at literary beauty. despite REPEATED requests that you clarify what "literary", "literary quality" and "wordcraft" and various other words you've tried to toss into the mix, you've never actually sat down and defined what you mean by these terms in a way that folks in the thread understand what you're on about. Clearly plenty of folks do - everyone but you, Maxperson and Imaro as far as I can tell. And frankly even Imaro seems to understand the point, despite protesting that it's unclear. He just disagrees with it - that is, he thinks that RPGing is a literary endeavour, and would find a game boring in which the GM didn't aim at literary quality in his/her narration. It seems worth mentioning at this point that not all disagreement is a result of unclear usage or uncertainty over definitions. Aesthetic debates aren't much like mathematics, in that respect at least. Anyway, to aim at literary quality is to try and produce pleasing, beautiful, evocative writing. Most poets do this. Most novelists do this. Fewer instructional writers do this - I've read recipe books that seem to aspire to literary quality, but never stereo or furniture assembly instructions. I've read a lot of academic papers over the years - these tend to aim at clarity, but many clearly do not aim at literary quality. Statutes, regulations, contracts and other legal instrument...

Saturday, 1st June, 2019

  • 05:48 PM - hawkeyefan mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Maxperson I feel like you care more about the technical definition than about if a GM or other adjudicator/facilitator is actually required. The way Fiasco works, no one would ever say there are 5 GMs. Also, there are other games that we can list besides Fiasco that don’t require a GM. I mentioned Microscope just a while ago, and that doesn’t require a GM. Nor does Kingdom, another RPG by the same author, Ben Robbins. Let’s not get hung up on semantics and start quoting definitions at people. There are enough games that don’t require a GM that we shouldn’t include it in the list of essential things for a RPG.

Tuesday, 28th May, 2019

  • 05:43 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    So let's focus on what the actual lines of dispute are, rather than fight endlessly over the definition of literary.Yeah, I didn't expect this thread to be a debate about the meaning and scope of the term "literary". I thought it might be a discussion about whether or not wordcraft is a principal or essential means of evoking emotional responses in a RPG. The point of my OP is to deny such a claim. On the other hand, I believe that Hussar affirms such a claim, as does Imaro. I'm frankly not sure what Maxperson thinks about it. Everyone agrees with you @pemerton.This isn't true at all. Unless you've changed your mind, upthread you asserted that the use of wordcraft and associated performance is a key means of promoting emotional responses in RPGing. Which is what I am disagreeing with. ************************ On the issue of "playstyle arguments/agendas", which has been flagged by Bedrockgames and darkbard: I think (and hope) it's obvious that my OP is putting forward a view about where the aesthetic merit and aeshetic power of RPGIng lies, and therefore a view about what the point of RPGing ultimately is. I recognise that others will disagree. That's not uncommon in critical discussions. I'm not 100% sure that I agree with Eagleton that these "deep structures" of aesthetic evaluation correlate to, or express, social power relations and any resultant ideologies. That's a further, and harder, question. But as I posted upthread in reply to Aldarc, I do think that these aestheti...

Monday, 27th May, 2019

  • 10:20 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Sorry, Aldarc, but, which definition are YOU using? Until such time as you and Bedrockgames actually tell me which definition you want to use, then we can't actually have any sort of meaningful discussion. Are we going to use Maxperson's broader definition or not? Pick one and we'll stick with that. You say that I'm making a category error. That's only true if we're using the broader definition. And, well, I do think it's a complete dodge to say, "Well, pacing exists in other media, so, it's not literary". That's not true. It IS literary, as well as other things. Now, since TV, movies, books, short stories, etc, all have pacing concerns, then, it's fair to say that any narrative form (which is what I was arguing with Bedrockgames about, not simply literary form) will have pacing concerns. They have to. Now, Bedrockgames claims that he does not pay any attention to pacing whatsoever in his adventure creation, nor during play. Now, I have to take him at his word for that, but, to me, that sounds like a terrible game. And "ignore pacing" is advice I would never give to any DM. To me, that's horrible advice. But, in any case, can we at least just use ONE definition? Otherwise, we're just talking past...
  • 03:27 AM - Hussar mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Yeah. Again, the last six or seven pages of this "discussion" has all been because folks absolutely refuse to pin down what definition of "literary" they would like us to use. If Literary=high art, then this discussion is, for all intents and purposes, over because we all agree that RPGing isn't meant to be high art. So, Bedrockgames, Aldarc, and anyone else who cares to weigh in, would you PLEASE define your terms. What do YOU mean by "literary". Not, playstyle or any other dodge, or comparisons to baking a cake. What do YOU mean, and we'll discuss using THAT definition. Because, boys and girls, until such time as you folks want to plant the goal posts, this conversation is just going to keep circling the same rabbit hole. Maxperson is, if we use his definition of literary, 100% correct. But, if we use pemerton's definition, he's 100% wrong. So, which definition do you want us to use? Pick one, stick with it, and we can move on.

Friday, 24th May, 2019


Tuesday, 21st May, 2019

  • 03:14 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ady posted why crafted narration and conveying a situation that draws in the players might come into conflict. The first benefits from preparation (and the resulting opportunity to test, edit, etc). Whereas the second - like conversation, which has been my reiterated comparitor - benefits from spontaneous engagement within the back-and-forth at the table. EDIT: The description isn't what makes a situation in an RPG interesting: the situation is what makes interesting because it is interacting and part of a back and forth conversation. I honestly don't care if the GM is stumbling over words, uses the same adjective twice in a row for no reason, uses a ten dollar word that somewhat misses the mark, when a more precise 1 dollar word would do....those are all things I care about when I am reading quality books. When I am playing a game I am engaged with another human being and through them, a situation as my character.This is as good an account of the OP claim as any other. Imaro, Maxperson - you may disagree that what Bedrockgames describes here, and what I describe in the OP, is a good account of RPGing. That's fine and (it goes without saying) your prerogative. But I don't see why the discussion about this raises any issues about the meaning of words. I don't see how it helps the discussio by trying to argue that I, or Bedrockgames, is engaged in self-contradiction. Instead: tell us about how you see RPGs working. For instance, what do you see as the role of situation in RPGing. Why do you think the narratie crat with which a situation is presented is so important?

Monday, 20th May, 2019

  • 04:32 PM - Hriston mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    If you're not sure what I mean refer to the last post by @Maxperson for a pretty succinct explanation. Well, here's Maxperson's last post: Descriptions are what make the situation interesting. I can give you a situation of 10 gargoyles on a hill. One DM will make it bland and dull, the other through descriptions will make it interesting and exciting. Yep. I've been in RPGs that were dull and played like a board game. Bored game? From this, it seems that what you and Maxperson mean by presenting a situation well enough is that the situation is described. I agree that description is necessary, but I fail to see how merely describing a situation makes the formal qualities of that description the focus of the activity. If what you are claiming above is true then if given the same quality content that is communicated clearly there should never be deviation in how players respond to it (either being interested or not interested)... which begs the question if it's purely a question of quality of content and clarity then why can numero...
  • 03:35 AM - CleverNickName mentioned Maxperson in post Survivor Magic Jewelry (PART I)- AMULET OF THE PLANES WINS!
    What Maxperson said, except my first choice was the Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location.
  • 02:22 AM - Imaro mentioned Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    I’m not sure what you mean by “well enough”. I’m claiming that as long as the situation is clearly understood by the players, which is an issue with communication, not with quality of form/literary merit, and it fails to interest them nevertheless, that focusing on the artistry of its presentation is unlikely to generate the desired interest in the situation and is more likely to resemble some other form of entertainment that relies on such artistry, like a novel or a movie. If you're not sure what I mean refer to the last post by @Maxperson for a pretty succinct explanation. If what you are claiming above is true then if given the same quality content that is communicated clearly there should never be deviation in how players respond to it (either being interested or not interested)... which begs the question if it's purely a question of quality of content and clarity then why can numerous DM's try to hook their players to interact with the same content and get totally different responses from their players insofar as interest is concerned? Are you saying any and every DM who can't get his players interested in quality content must not be clearly communicating with their players? If not what are you saying is the cause? My bad. I was using “flowery language” as a euphemism for formal quality in narration, which I thought was fairly obvious. Sorry if that has caused any confusion in the discussion. Oh I was just making sure you understood that one did not equate to the other but it appears you already knew that an...

Thursday, 9th May, 2019

  • 12:36 AM - pemerton mentioned Maxperson in post A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
    I can't understand pemerton 's reference to playing rolemaster since 1990Because Rolemaster players feel that being lectured by a D&D player about what realism in RPGing means is like an Australian lecturing a Canadian about what cold and snow are all about. Or to put it another way: I've done 100s and 100s of hours of process sim RPGing - far more than Maxperson has. Maxperson has, as far as I know, never played RM, never played RQ, never played C&S, and maybe has played some GURPS or HERO (I can't remember on these last two). I've been part of a play culture that has a very robust sense of what realism in RPGing means, and that is very conscious of the difference between and relationships between mechanical process and fictional content. And I can't make sense of what Maxperson is saying.

Tuesday, 7th May, 2019

  • 09:39 AM - Aldarc mentioned Maxperson in post A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life
    1. Notice how you're continuing to compare different TTRPGs? There's a reason for that (see also, 2). Despite what I've written repeatedly that this is about comparisons within a single thing, not between things (is the flight simulation more or less realistic with or without wind, not is the flight simulator more realistic with wind than the space simulation). But the thrust of this is you keep discussing, and retreating to, "established fiction," which is completely orthogonal to what we are discussing, which is why the issue is described in terms of realism/simulation. There is nothing wrong, or right, with fiction that is great, or bad, or in-between; only that it has little to do with simulating or modeling reality (realism).You are presenting a strawman here (if not multiple ones), and I'm sure you will get some XP kudos from Maxperson for it. ;) The reason for comparing different TTRPGs is that a singular TTRPGs generally do not have multiple subsystems for whether they "model wind" or not. They usually either do or do not because systems generally come as pre-packaged systems. We can look at singular systems such as D&D, but then when we speak of adding models or not, we are typically dealing with house rules. Likewise, I do not "retreat" to establishing fiction; I use it because it provides one way to compare claims about the realism added of "modeled realism" versus "no model." Even if we look within a singular system that added a model of wind, the same point would largely hold true. The addition of a model intending to model realism does not inherently provide a net positive of realism to a system. 2. Which brings me to my second point, which I have both alluded to and outright stated. This "debate" really has nothing to do with what we are discussing, but rather has to do with other debates you ha...


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Wednesday, 19th June, 2019

  • 06:36 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    AD&D for us back in the 80's was 3-6 players. Though most modules were written for 6-10 PC. We just never had that many people to play. Yeah, I realized I said PC's and I should have said "characters". There would likely be 3-6 players and a mitt full of NPC's as well. At least, that's what the presumption was. Well darn. I guess I need to call up my 3 gaming buddies and tell them that all those years of playing 1e and 2e didn't count, because we didn't do it your way. Your the one telling me that the presumption was 4 PC's. That an encounter should have multiple dragons because I have so many PC's. But, that's not true. I had the standard number of characters that was expected by the game. 4 PC's as a group wasn't a standard presumption until 3e. Sure, I played with less than that many characters too. But, we're talking about the game, not the game you played at your table or the game I played at my table. That's one of the biggest problems I always have with talking ab...
  • 04:39 AM - 5ekyu quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Um. Sometimes giving in to your own desires to the detriment of your comrades and selling them out is the definition of unreliable. Even if he did one single time, they could never trust him again.No, it's the definition of not perfect. In fact, they did trust him after. Malcolm did specifically when he realized Jayne was actually ashamed of what he had done, not just upset he got caught. This is why alignments tend to not be extremes - all or nothing one-slip changes.
  • 04:29 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Whoops double post. My bad.
  • 04:28 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    ...f holding or four. It's not as if most of that didn't come from gems, jewelry and platinum anyway. One of the largest bags of holding could hold 150k of the 250k with 1000 pounds left over. Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons. See this is why I have such a hard time taking you seriously Maxperson. You obviously never played adnd. 6-9 pcs was the standard group. Four pcs is a 3e thing.
  • 04:18 AM - coolAlias quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    This is a very bad example. It only suits demons to do so because they'll be destroyed if they don't. They aren't choosing to be in an army. They are forced to by fear of death. CE, "Might makes right." Just like it only suits a Chaotic character to not break laws or betray their friends, either of which might very well result in a death sentence?
  • 01:01 AM - Lanefan quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Death? Energy Drain? Save or die sucked and was all over the place with poison, and energy drain was hell. It had no save and you never got back all of your experience, even if you were lucky enough to be drained within a day of someone who could cast restoration. And you started encountering a lot of energy drain undead well before the party could cast restoration itself, assuming your cleric wasn't also drained. Yeah, a swarm of wraiths could really mess up your day. Sure, if it just hung out on the ground ready to duke it out. Played intelligently, that dragon would destroy a 9th level party. I also like how you made it a party of 6-9 NPCs, rather than the typical 4. Double the party size and you double the monsters. So 8 PCs against a pair or three of ancient red dragons.In fairness, 1e did generally assume a larger party size: parties of 6-9 PCs were commonplace. Most 0e-1e modules were written with this kind of party size in mind - check their intro notes and you'll see. It...

Tuesday, 18th June, 2019

  • 03:03 PM - Celebrim quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    And worth nowhere as much XP. I went with ancient red dragon to illustrate just how piddly combat XP was. Especially vs. XP from treasure. Depending on the style of treasure allocation, XP from combat tended to be between 1/3rd and 1/10th as much as the XP from treasure. You played with a generous DM, or perhaps one who didn't know how to run monsters. If the DM wasn't worried about killing you and used tactics that many of the monsters would know and use, combats were not easy, especially when you factored in save or die and energy drains. The question I have for that statement is, "Is relying on Save or Die or Energy Drains to challenge PCs fun?" I dunno, then again, we left AD&D as soon as 2e came out and 2e was even worse - fighters really were damage gods. The problem started in 1e Unearthed Arcana. Fighters post UA were dishing about twice as much damage at a given level as the game had been built around, but even before UA AD&D had a problem that almost everything i...
  • 08:52 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    What you do is based on your personality and what you believe, though. There are many, many reasons why someone would not report an orcish army, and you can find people of all alignments among them. The problem is, we're not mind readers. We don't know why this character did X. All we know is that he did X. And, really, while there might be all sorts of reasons, reliability isn't one of them. :D If I were going to describe a CN ftom fiction, Phillipe the Mouse from Ladyhawke. Willing to steal from anybody, distrusts mostly everybody but not the type to just kill for fun. Jayne from Firefly, likely, especially when the money gets good. Ok, now, let's use Jayne. Would you consider Jayne to be reliable? Is loyal, reliable, or anything similar be a proper descriptor of that character? CN Han Solo start of ANH. I'd probably put Han Solo as just neutral. He's not actively opposing the empire, after all. He might not like it, but, he's also not going to do anything about i...
  • 08:39 AM - Hussar quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    In 1e an ancient red dragon was worth 7758, or 1939 xp each for a party of 4. An ancient red dragon can easily have 250,000gp worth of treasure, not including magic items. That equates to 62,500 xp each for that party of 4. Gaining the treasure is 32 times more xp than killing it, and you get that same exp if you steal the treasure rather than fight the dragon. D&D was originally concieved as a get the loot game where you sometimes had to fight, but really tried to avoid it when possible so you didn't end up dead. Now, how exactly did you manage to get that couple of tons of treasure out of the lair without fighting the dragon? Again, why did folks avoid combat when the PC's after about 6th level were FAR more powerful than anything they were facing? And Ancient Huge Red Dragon had 92 HP (IIRC). That was about 1 round of damage output for a 9th level party of 6-9 PC's.
  • 03:15 AM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but this thread is about the D&D standard. If we're going to go by your standard, then we can make Tom LG, NG, CG or any other alignment you feel like assigning him with your personal standard. It's just not something that really goes with this thread. This thread is about “Chaotic Good is the most popular alignment” and whatever discussion evolves from that jumping-off point. Hussar made an argument about Q being the Ur-example of Chaotic Neutral and challenged folks to give him an example of an archetypical CN character that would be more compatible with a D&D adventuring party. I responded to that by pointing out that Q did in fact help the crew of the enterprise (on a few occasions, though I only gave one example), so clearly even the most quintessentially CN character is fully capable of working with others, provided doing so is in their own interest. As an aside, I gave an example of a character that fits well with CN as I define it at my own tabl...

Monday, 17th June, 2019

  • 11:04 PM - Riley37 quoted Maxperson in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    In my experience, this is less about the DM failing to be engaged, and more that the DM has failed to learn the box text in advance and just reads it as he goes. If he had learned it in advance and was able to describe the scene with the box text as the guide, the players would have been more engaged. In this case, those two factors - DM engagement, and DM preparation - went hand in hand. He didn't care much, so (a) he neither rehearsed narration nor internalized the content well enough to describe it in his own words and (b) we didn't care either. Unfortunately, the "we didn't care either" extended to details useful for getting through the pretext of investigating our way to a fight scene. (And for amusing role-play and problem-solving along our way to a fight scene.)
  • 06:30 PM - hawkeyefan quoted Maxperson in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    I'm not sure about page 84. I'll look in a second. However, the intro section of the PHB says the following. "While initial adventuring usually takes place in an underworld dungeon setting, play gradually expands to encompass other such dungeons, town and city activities, wilderness explorations, and journeys into other dimensions, planes, times, worlds, and so forth." It's pretty clear that things like "Rescue the princess" and other such adventures were intended as part of 1e from the very get go. That also jives from my play experience. I started playing in 1983, 6 years before 2e started and every DM I played with had these sorts of adventures. Often it was a dungeon. Less often, but still fairly common were the rescue, infiltrate and steal scenarios. This is the relevant portion of page 84. "Tricking or outwitting monsters or overcoming tricks and/or traps placed to guard treasure must be determined subjectively, with level of experience balanced against the degree of difficulty y...
  • 04:57 PM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Tom is the epitome of the original true neutral druid. He wasn't chaotic at all. He just didn't care about things like law, chaos, good and evil. Just going to ignore the “by my standard” part then?
  • 09:54 AM - Lanefan quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    I don't think they actively oppose laws at all. I just think that for the most part, they ignore them as being too restrictive. I've never seen a CN PC engage in a war on laws. Perhaps, though one definition of a true CN is a (non-destructive/violent) extreme anarchist who in fact does actively seek to overturn any and all external laws and restrictions, to be replaced with personal responsibility for one's actions. I also think that if a law said that you couldn't be punished for doing as you desire as long as it didn't harm someone else, the CN PC would be all for a law like that.A CG one sure would; a CN might stretch the definition of 'harm' just a little particularly when it comes to property - assuming, of course, the CN even believes in the concept of property/goods ownership at all. (some hardcore anarchists see ownership as the root of all evil)
  • 04:30 AM - 5ekyu quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Unless you are a paladin, but that's tied more to the oaths, rather than alignment. It's just the the oaths tend towards a specific alignment or few alignments, so it's kinda sorta an alignment penalty mechanic to violate the oath.As you say, the paladin is now tied to oaths. Oaths are given a set of rather clear doctrine/tenet elements and the GM and players are encouraged required to work together on specifics for that character specifically. That is a vast improvement over the more blind 9verall LG vs others alignment of olde and paladin impact.
  • 03:52 AM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    This part... You specifically call out the Paladin stepping in to prevent that murder(ignoring an unjust law) as NG, and then state that LG works to reform the governments. You’re assuming that these statements of what each alignment does are meant to imply that other alignments can’t do those things. This was not my intent.
  • 03:43 AM - Oofta quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    Maxperson, you do understand that sometimes misunderstandings happen, right? My scenario was that the slave could realistically be freed and the way your response was phrased it sounded like the LG PC would not free them. That the only way to free the slaves was to overthrow the government and change the law. That until the law was changed, slavery should go unopposed. LG: Slavery is unjust and the tyrannical government enslaving the people should be overthrown. New just laws against slavery should be instated. While overthrowing the government may or may not be the LG thing to do*, in many cases it won't be possible. Freeing the slaves was possible. Forums are not always a great place to discuss topics, but when I say "I have no idea what you're saying" that's an admission on my part that, well, I have no idea what you're saying. Perhaps you should clarify before you start accusing people of constructing a strawman. *As much as my LG PC may hate the tyrannical government they may not ...
  • 03:38 AM - Psyzhran2357 quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    This part... [/COLOR] You specifically call out the Paladin stepping in to prevent that murder(ignoring an unjust law) as NG, and then state that LG works to reform the governments. Not who you were talking to, but I assume in a heroic fantasy context, by the time the Paladin is in a place to even dream of enacting those reforms, there are a lot of heads rolling around on the ground, most of them belonging to the LE tyrants. I'd be surprised if the incumbent administration didn't have to be removed by force. So the Paladin is still gonna go smite some fools.
  • 03:28 AM - doctorbadwolf quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    I know they gave us time to download/copy threads. I wonder if some people here(or elsewhere) took advantage of that, and if so, are they out there somewhere to find. I think there was an archiving effort here, and possibly elsewhere? Don’t know how much it got.
  • 03:26 AM - Charlaquin quoted Maxperson in post Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!
    I disagree. Let's take a scenario where there is an evil dictator in charge of a country that a LG Paladin enters. In that country it's illegal to murder people. However, there is also a law that allows the dictator's personal guard to ignore that rule murder anyone they like. The Paladin is in the bar and the server accidentally spills an ale on one of the personal guard. In response the guard stands up and draws his sword to remove the head of the offender. The LG Paladin is going to step in and prevent the murder from happening, despite the law allowing it. He's not going to sit back and allow the murder to happen, then create signs and go with the rest of the party to protest outside the castle until the dictator reforms things. I don’t know what part of what I said you think this disagrees with.


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