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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:54 PM
    Let's see. In order, the "BIG" settings in D&D are as follows, in rough order of use/importance: BIG AND GENERIC-Y Forgotten Realms Greyhawk Mystara Nentir Vale
    9 replies | 301 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:01 PM
    Alchemy Jug 30 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 28 Broom of Flying 26 Carpet of Flying 27 Crystal Ball 10 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 8 Cube of Force 22 Cubic Gate 20
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 09:07 PM
    Well, more reliable is an objective statement (usually). You can give it a metric, and then say something is, or isn't, more reliable. Not "better." Not even "better designed." Because design incorporate other elements- and designing for reliability might get rid of other aspects that you do appreciate. Or you might just not care about reliability in comparison to other things. There's an...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 07:13 PM
    This shouldn't be too hard. "I want to design a car that works great for a lot of things. Not just driving fast, or looking good, or gas mileage, or any one thing. I want a vehicle that is functional for all things. It's pretty good at stuff, and carries stuff too. " Voila, the minivan. You have a design goal, and you achieve it. It's functional. Does that mean that a person MUST...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 05:40 PM
    I'm just going to quote this part for the "whoosh" component. Look, I'm not asserting anything. But just labeling things and defining them doesn't mean you don't keep confusing your subjective standards for an objective standard. Let me show you, one final time, the difference: Objective: 4e had a design objective of doing away with so-called "LFQW," and allowing each character class...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 05:21 PM
    Joshua Randall - Let me assist: Objective: "allowed any stat to be an attack stat" Subjective: "produced the best monster books ever produced for any D&D edition, bar none ... and the Monster Vault and MV Threats to the Nentir Vale are in the top 10 of all gaming books ever"
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 03:52 PM
    So, I'm just going to say two things I have noticed, and I hope you take them in the spirit of a good-faith conversation: The first is that I have noticed that you often state your playstyle preferences as if they were fact; which is not conducive to a good conversation! There is a difference between normative (what ought to be) and descriptive (what is). Now, you might have very strong...
    245 replies | 10071 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 02:59 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of holding 27 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 9 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 28 Crystal Ball 12 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 12 Cube of Force 25 Cubic Gate 23
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:26 PM
    So, w/r/t and what Umbran said earlier, I am reminded about the controversies over the introduction of the original Thief class. One of the issues with introducing the class was that people were worried that if you introduced a Thief with certain defined skills (like Hide in Shadows) that would mean that individuals who were not Thieves could not perform the skill. Moreover, once you start to...
    290 replies | 7770 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:04 PM
    Well, that's what I was trying to think of- the APs seem much, much, much longer! X2 (Castle Amber) I've run several times in 5e- love it (although the ending is anti-climactic without revisions because of the 5e "one monster" problem). I3-I5 is the still the gold standard, IMO.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 09:57 PM
    I didn't want to comment on the rest of your post, but something stuck with me, and I went back, and this was it. There is a large disconnect if you keep insisting (as I have seen various designers insist) that the consumers are "just doing it wrong." Let's give an easy example- a lot of what you hear is engineered to please you. Like ... the thunk of your car door when it closes. You may,...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 09:33 PM
    Well, the difference being that this would be the release of a system that is no longer supported, and isn't very popular (no offense). I am sure that there would be some 3PP that would seize the chance to take it out for a spin, but, yeah, given that it wouldn't have D&D behind it, it wouldn't go very far. So ... yeah. (Now, given the general risk-adverseness of corporations, I would be...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 09:13 PM
    Well, I should start by saying that I'm not making an "argument." It's more of an analysis of the various claims (and counterclaims) that I see flying around about 4e; I decided to finally get around to researching them, and this is what I think of these main claims. That said, quality is completely subjective, right? I mean, someone who grew up in the 80s can say that in 1984, The Adevntures...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 08:49 PM
    So, I agree with you re: need. I've played diceless games that allow for narrative combat. And it is certainly possible to have games with social rules (and many do). ...that said, I think the reason for this split is somewhat clear. As originally conceived, D&D had a somewhat ... mixed ... nature. In fact, the best way to think of it is to think of old- school CRPGs, when you are just...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 08:14 PM
    I'm going to post a few thoughts on this, while noting that some of your statements are not going to be agreeable, and that may be why certain things are missed by you (such as 3e and 4e merely "consolidating" "needless complexity" of prior editions). Necessary Disclaimer I don't care about any edition wars; I think everything since UA in 1985 is, for the most part, crud, and 5e is ......
    245 replies | 10071 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:23 PM
    I mean, I often adapted modules into whatever campaign I was running at the time. I often wonder, looking back, how I possibly had time for this, as well as everything else I was up to! Ah, youth. But it did make me think- if people had trouble finishing the 1e modules, how on earth are people finishing the APs? Anecdotally, I know that some of the teen groups that I taught and gone off on...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:18 PM
    From 1e (since I know it best) Agree on the defined race/class themes and limitations. Playing without them is like playing tennis without a net. Don't care about uneven class progression, BUT ... I do miss uneven classes. You know what? Not everything needs perfect balance. You want to suffer as a Magic User for four levels, so you can kick butt later? More power to you! I miss saving...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 05:39 PM
    AD&D isn't 2e. Dem's fighting words. The first sign that AD&D was suffering from the consumption was the publication of Unearthed Arcana; the DSG and WSG was the coughing up of blood in bed; 2e was the final death rattle. ;) (I think that the individualized experiences of times past is often opaque, and while greater understandings can be achieved, true understanding is often elusive.)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 05:20 PM
    It's not odd; as people have already alluded to, it's really going to depend on your campaign, and why you want to introduce the item. For purposes of illustration, allow me to use the original, old school, 1e (AD&D) Bag of Holding as an example. Now, how "useful" the Bag of Holding was depended entirely on the type of campaign you were in. I would argue that in 2/3 types of campaign, it...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 03:55 PM
    Communication & Negotiation, p. 104 PHB. Most DMs love communication and negotiations, for this allows them to assume an active role in actual play. Your referee will assume the persona proper to the creature your party is dealing with - be it shy and hostile, stupid, greedy, helpful, misinformed, or whatever. Intelligent monsters will always balance the offer versus the expectation. A lone...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 03:45 PM
    So, a recent comment in a thread had me thinking to myself, "Self, why do people say that all of AD&D was a certain way? Is this like a comedy routine? You know, 'Grognards be doin' it this way, and People that need to get off my lawn be doin' that way.'" Anyway, the specific thread/comment that had me thinking about this again is here- ...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:50 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 29 Bag of Tricks 28 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 10 Broom of Flying 23 Carpet of Flying 27 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 8 Crystal Ball 14 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 14 Cube of Force 24
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 10:07 PM
    I appreciate your love of FR (truly, I do- I think you're one of the most knowledgeable FR people on this forum!), but .... that would not be for me. :) (As I've mentioned before, I prefer settings without stuff filled in; even post-1983 GH is way too cluttered for my taste.)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 10:05 PM
    ????? Um ... maybe it's because I use a lot of words and stuff, or maybe it's because you don't read the footnotes and/or have not seen the greatest movie of all time, but I don't think I could have been more clear. Sometimes, I just like to see what people are thinking. In fact, that's almost all the times I start a thread. I'm more curious as to what other people think, because I know...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 08:41 PM
    The novelization of the movie that's based on the book! Yeah, I saw that too. ;) Travis Henry Your desire is great. HOWEVER, the above quote encapsulates the problem. D&D is an RPG. As such, to make it a good reading experience, liberties have to be taken- with the rules, for example. No one wants to read a typical D&D combat ... to use one example. If you want, you can look at all...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 08:08 PM
    "If you could put D&D into any other non middle ages genre, what would it be?" Middle ages genre? MIDDLE AGE??!??! Well, I mean, first of all, I resemble that comm... erm, I resent that comment. But if I had to change it up, I'd make D&D more of a hula hoop genre.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 08:03 PM
    You can't. Narrative isn't core to RPGs. It's not like you can ever borrow narrative or literary techniques from books! The only way to engage for DMs and players to engage each other is with framing. Wordless, but meaningful, framing. :) /ducks
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 07:25 PM
    I think that is almost always the case, and I appreciate the candor. In fairness, does anyone ever know what they are trying to achieve? Or are we all more like dogs chasing cars? But I did notice that, since the beginning of the thread, you never really grappled with the use of RPGs in genre; specifically, humor.* So, how does framing sans narrative work in a humorous RPG? That's...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 07:20 PM
    Well, I wish I was that enlightened! As you can tell from my other threads* I enjoy violence as much as the next person. It was more, "Why?" And specifically, "Why so much in the RPGs?" The predicate was, as I mentioned, re-visiting B2, which not only allowed a particular strain of hobomurder that was common in the late 70s and early 80s ... it encouraged it. Even to a "realistic" extent...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 06:03 PM
    Alchemy Jug 28 Bag of Holding 29 Bag of Tricks 27 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 5 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 12 Broom of Flying 21 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 12 Crystal Ball 16 Crystal Ball of Telepathy 16
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 08:35 PM
    Interesting! Thank you for the link. FWIW, I would like a boxed set (as in new stuff, not just a re-skinned beginners' box, or collecting the previously-published books). Something like the ... wait for it ... GREYHAWK BOXED SET. Why? MAPS, MAPS, MAPS.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 08:14 PM
    Oh, oh I see. Running away, eh?! You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll impale you!!
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 07:23 PM
    Yep. That's it. Regular copy and paste causes the issues. FYI- Using chrome on windows when this happens.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 07:21 PM
    Yeah. I got nothing at this point. I will say that when I do a regular cut and paste from certain comments, the text I paste has a weird semi-border around it which is barely visible. Like this- Strangely, I just use the website. Nothing fancy. Strangely, I just use the website. Nothing fancy.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 06:55 PM
    Hockey was my sun, hockey was my earth But the Leafs didn't know all the ways I loved them, no So the Raptors took a chance, made other plans And I bet the Warriors didn't think that Durant would come up injured, no Drake don't need to sing, he don't need to tweet I already know, I watched Fred VanFleet Now there's just no chance With me and the Leafs There'll never be Don't it make the...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 06:23 PM
    Some cause happiness wherever the go; Paladins, whenever they go.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 05:21 PM
    I mean, yeah, but he could have done so much better. "Hey guys, did you hear the news? They are gearing up for a complete revamp- they are leaning hard into a new, improved AEDU system and a rebranding .... Are you ready for W&W? You know, Warlocks and Warlords?" Some people ... just want to watch the world burn.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 04:50 PM
    That's because it's not. When most people discuss "DoD,"* they are talking about the classic I3, I4, I5. Pharoah (later I3) was first created by Hickman in the 70s, and then expanded to the I3-I5. It is setting-agnostic, although, if it had to have a setting, it would be Greyhawk, because all modules from that era were either explicitly Greyhawk (like Saltmarsh, Tsojcanth) or had to be...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 04:34 PM
    Woah! I just switched from Reborn to Legacy (White to Black) ... so, the problem wasn't when I cut and pasted with plain text ... it was when I just NATURALLY CUT AND PASTED. I was not expecting that, at all. I don't even understand that???? That is exact opposite of what should have happened.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 04:31 PM
    Strangely, I just use the website. Nothing fancy. But I am guessing that what is happening is that I pasting as "plain text" (to remove formatting problems that are popping up) and that is somehow forcing it into black, as opposed to "automatic text coloring." And it only happens in those quotes because I only copy and paste into those ersatz quotes I do (to quote other stuff). ....let's...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 03:34 PM
    You've won a basketball championship, AND you have a shooting? Welcome to the US, Toronto!
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 03:32 PM
    Alchemy Jug 27 Bag of Holding 25 Bag of Tricks 24 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 20 Carpet of Flying 26 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 14 Chime of Opening 10 Crystal Ball 18
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 03:22 PM
    Good question! And the answer is .... because then it wouldn't be aptitude bias as you are calling it. :) I don't mean that to be snarky; but to give you the appropriate analogy (with a bit of a joke that is so appropriate here), think of the framing bias (framing effect). The framing bias exists when people are presented options, and those options are given with positive or negative...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 04:24 AM
    So, let me first answer that with a video- Did you watch? Good! "I can't frame that. There's loads and loads of things you just did that might as well be magic!" You see where I'm going with this, yes? So when you ascribe positions on the hierarchy, it's necessarily from the position you have now; as you would put it, your aptitude bias. It is somewhat difficult to fully grok the...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 10:06 PM
    Other ideas- B4 is one of my favorites, although primarily UNDERNEATH the desert. Most Dark Sun adventures can, obviously, be used as Desert Adventures.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 10:03 PM
    If not Desert of Desolation, then I would second X4/X5 (not so much X10). Absolutely love running those. (Originally for the X in B/X, easy to convert to 5e)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 09:40 PM
    Guess the cross-over between Basketball fans and enworld commenters is, um, two. The op and me. And the number of NBA fans/enworld commenters/Neil Young enthusiasts ....
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 09:37 PM
    Okay, but WHY are my quotes doing that? :) And why can't I see it in my editing window?
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 09:07 PM
    Okay. But what about the whole AC/DC thing going on (Back in Black?).
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 08:45 PM
    NO! I demand that you do not narrate them. I want my framing to be minimalist, as if Dieter "Leibe meine Abschminke*" Rams possessed you! DM: "A room." Player: "um..... okay ... what kind of room?" D: "A white room."
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 08:26 PM
    Hmmm... I swear he was thinking about The Wrong Side, or The Birds Box, or Speed by Speedwest, or perhaps it was Speed 2: A Stranger Named Jason Patric on a Train? But I'm not sure you can trust him. "Gentlemen, like Hitchock, prefer brunettes." Charles Coburn, indubitably.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 08:14 PM
    That's because it's tagged with Homebrew. The only homebrew I partake in better get me wicked messed up. I don't want my homebrew to make me read about exploding toads ... I want my homebrew to make me SEE exploding toads. *hic*
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 07:45 PM
    Not to add to the mystery, but- 1. I use a white background. So I wouldn't see a problem. It appears that Manbearcat (and you, maybe?) use black ones. 2. However ..... what happened when you quoted my post? Shouldn't your quote of my entire post have caused the text to pop back out, at least on my screen? When I saw you quoting me, the quote was gone. Do you know what I'm saying?
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 07:41 PM
    Weird. Well, when I go to edit it, it doesn't show as being formatted to a particular color?????
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 07:24 PM
    Is it invisible to you, as in "If I select the text, or change my color scheme, it appears!" ... or is it invisible, as in ... not there?
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 07:15 PM
    By the way, the reason I am asking about this is that one of two things is happening: 1. My quotes have never come out correctly, and everyone has been too polite or disinterested to point out until the last two days, when suddenly everyone is noticing it; or 2. Something has changed that I'm not aware of.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 07:12 PM
    Arghhh! Okay, but the quotes in the other thread didn't look right? What about the thread that I link to in this OP- https://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...=1#post7618903
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 06:54 PM
    No. Everything looks absolutely normal to me.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 06:48 PM
    I was thinking about your comment, re: the media, and dragoner's comment, directly above it. I'm not looking at specific things, more of a gestalt.
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 06:47 PM
    "Every movie is better with Sandra Bullock." Alfred Hitchcock, probably. I resemble that comment ... wait a minute, how dare you accurately use my own words against me! I demand I retract my comments!
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 04:57 PM
    Well .... Okay, so I've been looking at what everyone has been saying (and a LOT of good stuff in here), including dragoner and his very thoughtful, albeit gut-punchy comment above yours (I don't know how else to refer to it ...) ... and I'm thinking something along the lines of the following: It is interesting, to me, that the following two statements are GENERALLY true, if not true in all...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 04:33 PM
    Snarf! ... and .... oh boy .... I can't stop myself ... you've been warned about this blast from the past! Valley Elf, Heís a Valley Elf, Valley Elf, Heís a Valley Elf ...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 04:16 PM
    What I liked most about the early stuff (I am thinking OD&D, B/X, and especially AD&D) was that anything was possible. Yes, it was serious. But it also had lots of humor (as you point out) and that was important to me. Just kinda sorta. And the breaking of the fourth wall to the reader. ...not to mention the real sense of wonder by combining all the genres (sure, maybe you have a space...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 04:09 PM
    While I wish you had framed it differently, using different words (see what I did there), I will try to just state my position: First, this isn't about RPGs in general; this is about TTRPGs.* Second, this isn't about all TTRPGs, I am referring to "mainstream" TTRPGS (for lack of a better phrase) that have a GM and multiple players, and the game exists in the interaction between the players...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:43 PM
    I would say that I would never pass up a biscuit, but, you know, carbs. Virtual carbs are the worst, man. They make your commenting all flabby-like. But yes, these threads are like cheese! I know cheese. I know eating cheese isn't that good for me; not good like leafy greens. And yet .... mmm.... cheese tastes good! I'm always like, "Man, I shouldn't have cheese. I really shouldn't." And...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:48 PM
    Ten Warriors but Kawhi's shootin' The NBA Championship is ours to own This summer for the Raptors I am rootin' Bring the Championship to Toronto Gotta get down to it Kawhi is gunning the Warriors down Should have been done long ago ....
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:41 PM
    Alchemy Jug 25 Bag of Beans 10 Bag of Holding 24 Bag of Tricks 23 Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals 14 Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals 14 Broom of Flying 21 Carpet of Flying 25 Censer of Controlling Air Elementals 16 Chime of Opening 12
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:26 PM
    Hi Everybody! (HI DR. NICK!) Now tell Dr. Nick where is the trouble. ...so, @Dannyalcatraz first pointed out a problem in my posts, specifically, this one-
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 10:09 PM
    So why did you assume this was the reason behind the discomfort? If it wasn't?
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 10:05 PM
    Nope.
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 09:54 PM
    I hear what you're saying, but I'd go back to what I was discussing with manbearcat, in that you can't really disambiguate them like that. Which is is what I've been trying to say for a while; even doing the whole substance/style dichotomy is inherently pejorative. "Yes, I just want the sizzle- hold the steak please." What you refer to as the style, I would say is inherently part of the...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 09:13 PM
    All substance, no style, and you are just playing a boardgame ... or a wargame. All style, no substance, and you are just doing community theater. That's why it's neither ... or both. It tastes great, and is less filling. (Its a STYLISTIC .... SUBSTANCE, or, put another way, it's a ROLE PLAYING .... GAME ;) ).
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 09:11 PM
    Interesting- you might want to look at some of the excellent web resources they have regarding the use of RPGs for autistic children (I have mentioned this before). There are some excellent write-ups (and bona fide scholarly resources) regarding the beneficial effects. That said, a lot of the impetus in my community for me to teach D&D, weirdly, came from other parents who found out I was a...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 08:16 PM
    "When you say inching, do you mean moving with the old AD&D system of movement? Is this the coelacanth of squamous entities, thought extinct since the halcyon days of 12", brought back to terrorize us? Do we seek to preserve this nearly-extinct specimen of the dark ages?" *thinking* "Alright alright alright, roll initiative and attack! Baby needs a new pair of shoes!"
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 08:08 PM
    O. M. G. So I was going to come on to this thread and post about this senior moment I was having ... there was this game I bought, and it looked so cool, so very very cool, and I loved the fluff, but the rules ... Oh the rules. It was insanely complex, and the characters were also short-lived, with really slow advancement...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 07:53 PM
    Weirdly, I was primarily thinking about my experience teaching D&D (5e) to kids in this thread as well. The goal is always to have them go off and form their own groups. .... and you see the kids begin to have greater confidence in their abilities, in their vocabulary, in their social skills, and in their storytelling, thanks to D&D. They are learning to balance competing interests (when not...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 07:28 PM
    Someone else just told me that my quote is blacked out on a different thread.... I don't see your fix??????
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 07:03 PM
    And Paladin for the "Die in a fire" concept?
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:58 PM
    Yes, it is very tiring to repeat myself. Especially when people talk down to you despite the fact that you have been addressing these points, repeatedly. ...and you clearly knew that with the reference to the "every few hundred posts." So ... yeah, nice trolling- not cool. As an initial issue, I have never tried to pin down an immutable and universal definition; instead, I have...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:12 PM
    To be clear- I did not mean to imply you are not roleplaying! And it's not just about roleplaying restrictions as rules.* It's more ... hmmm... when I think of integration of rules and fluff, I specifically think of the following: A. Fluff informs RAI/houserules. Let's use the Warlock/Cleric example on this one. In my setting, absent some amazing special factors that I can't think of right...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:01 PM
    That's a great point! I mean, it's not like I've ever discussed the history of the thread, ever painstakingly quoted the specific OP and the followup, as well as the predecessor threads, in order to determine exactly what the OP was trying to get at ... Yeah, you're right. I mean ... I never understood the context of this discussion, nor have I ever bothered noting how frustrating it is...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 05:27 PM
    My last post- Do you ever feel like you keep saying, over days and weeks, that people are talking past each other, because of definitions, and you keep saying that, and every now and then, someone will say, "Hey, you know what Lowkey, you know what the real problem is, definitions! I mean ... context matters, buddy." ....and you just kind of want to smash your head repeatedly into...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 05:23 PM
    Bingo. That's what I meant when I wrote the following- A lot of players have the TwoSix philosophy (that D&D is just a bunch of mechanics that you mix and match to make your own concepts). Which is a fine way to play- but I prefer to have a tight integration of fluff and crunch; the RPing and the mechanics should feed on each other, not be divorced from one another. But my view,...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 05:12 PM
    See, I disagree. And that's fine! Personally, I think that 5e, by moving in the direction of a toolbox, is going in the wrong way. And allowing Clerics and Warlocks to multi-class together? That will just result in fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! 40 years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 04:57 PM
    ...dude. You are literally using hierarchy in its adverb form.This single sentence starts with "Hence" (that is one of TWO hences), contains multiple ellipses, a parenthetical, and multiple subclauses. I am just going to quote this small passage of nine words within the sentence- "correlate them profoundly to certain facets of exposition skill" The overall passage has a Flesch Reading Ease...
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 04:41 PM
    At this point, it is necessary to say that John Wick (as a franchise) is not just enjoyable, but the HOLY TRILOGY is the greatest set of movies, ever. The only thing that could make John Wick 4 even better is the necessary addition of Nic Cage. .... a John Wick rpg? ....mmmm.....
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 04:30 PM
    ... is that really the point you felt necessary to make? That, and not the "possibly mentally ill hermit I need to murder for his stuff" I know the argument you are trying to make, and the people that ascribe to it- please go make it somewhere else.
    290 replies | 7770 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 03:48 PM
    ....not sure I appreciate this comment .... :P
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 03:31 PM
    I'm an American. Of course I will complain. What? You think that some sort of shame ... or concern about hypocrisy ... will keep me from complaining? HECK NO! My right to complain is guaranteed, by, like, the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence, or one of the Commandments, or the collected works of John Wayne.
    290 replies | 7770 view(s)
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  • lowkey13's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 03:28 PM
    Argh. This doesn't understand the P.O.V. that others have, which is why this whole thing has been bollixed from the beginning. Look, let's use the examples of, say, you, Pemerton, Manbearcat, and Bedrockgames. Just because you've all posted recently and you're all advocates of the "But it's just conversation and framing" mode (more or less, I am simplifying). Look at the comments you...
    1470 replies | 40272 view(s)
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Wednesday, 19th June, 2019


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Monday, 17th June, 2019

  • 11:30 PM - Imaro mentioned lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    ... rather read me some Forgotten Realms than say the Great Gatsby, Moby Dick, or Catcher in the Rye. Does this mean forgotten realms is of an equal or higher quality than a literary classic because I enjoyed it more? LOL no. Not even a little bit. And if I tried to claim as such, I would be (rightly) mocked because it is just clearly not so. So when Tony claims "4e was as good a game as D&D ever managed to be"...coming back with 'But not as many people liked it!' is meaningless and doesn't address the point. Now, I mean, he doesn't really back up his claim with anything and its fine if you disagree. But the metric of 'How many people enjoyed/did not enjoy this' does not belong in a discussion about quality. Does it have a place in a discussion about 'What can we sell to make more money?' Absolutely. But thats not Tony's claim. 5e is a more profitable edition. Hands down. But that is not indicative of quality of the product. I don't see where, in the post you were responding to, that lowkey13 made a statement concerning qualitative judgement, if anything he seemed to be responding to this part of the sentence he emphasized.... ... and if you weren't too deeply wedded to the flaws of past editions, it was hard to dislike. where it does seem to be implying if not outright stating that the product isn't to blame for it's failure or consumers disliking... a flaw in the consumer is. If anything I've seen Tony Vargas make continuous statements around qualitative judgement concerning 4e and other editions without backing it up in any way. Which I guess is why I see this particular call out as kind of odd.

Friday, 14th June, 2019

  • 12:56 AM - pemerton mentioned lowkey13 in post Formatting- Quotes Not Coming Out Correctly
    I use the traditional colour scheme (white post text, orange button text, on black background). In the post I mentioned in the "literary endeavour" thread there are two quote blocks. The first I can read. The second is, for me, an empty quote block. When I highlight it the text appears. I assume that the text has COLOR tags around it that are making it black. In the past when posters have had this issue I believe it's been because they're preparing posts in Word or some similar formatting-rich environment, and then when they copy-and-paste into the message board editor the formatting tags are carried along with the text. lowkey13, I can't recall if this is a recurrent feature of your posts or not. In the case of the particular post I commented on it was the particluar context of the phrase "My last post", which I realised I'd probably misinterpreted, that made the invisible quote salient to me. Maybe you've had invisible quotes in the past too but I haven't commented on them because it hasn't seemed to matter in that context. So anyway, after writing the above I went back through the thread and found post 409 on May 21st (my time). It has 3 quoteblocks. One is fully visible to me. One is fully invisible to me (unless I hightlight text). One is invisible except for the last six words. So I don't think this has anything to do with https. I would guess it's to do with the environment where you are writing/editing your posts.

Thursday, 13th June, 2019

  • 11:15 AM - pemerton mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    So why are you replying to my four-word (and a link) post, rather than replying directly to the 400-word post? Perhaps because I said the same thing, but more elegantly, and you hope to elicit further elegant responses, by engaging with me rather than with the anti-paladin?Having just re-read lowkey13's post, I think I may have misread - by "my last post" perhaps he mean "my previous post" (the next bit of the post itself is not legible for me because of some text formatting issue, but maybe it's a quote of a previous post?). I feel that reinforces my view that meta-comments (ie on the quality and formal properties of poster's posts, as opposed to what they're actually saying) is generally unproductive. by engaging with me rather than with the anti-paladinWhen I play a FRPG I nearly always play a paladin (or similar archetype). Presumably that's more evidence of something-or-other.
  • 10:07 AM - pemerton mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    No narration! Only framing!The post you quoted is nearly 400 words, has two footnotes and an edit, and references Hemingway and Henry Miller. I'm not sure there's much profit in critiquing posting styles or trying to diagnose irony. lowkey13 has (by my count) 7 posts since posting "My last post". Is that irony? An atypical use of the word last? (Maybe we should debate the meaning of the word last, or even post - my count of posts doesn't XP/laugh clicks - for several hundred posts.) Or is it just a change of mind and someone saying stuff that they feel like saying?

Wednesday, 12th June, 2019

  • 10:59 PM - darkbard mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    lowkey13, to a much greater extent than you might imagine, I largely agree with much of your recent postings here, but because of your sarcastic and antagonistic style, I have lost any desire to engage your substance right now.
  • 07:24 PM - Satyrn mentioned lowkey13 in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    If we were all Americans, here, I could just say "because we're a violent society." Instead, for my flip, sarcastic, cynical answere I'm going to have to go all ST:tNG, and say " because we are an egregiously violent species." (And, you don't get to complain about flip, joking answered to serious questions.) Excellent! Since lowkey13 doesn't get to complain, that lets me go to the front of the line with my complaint. My Complaint: you're stealing my schtick! Please Schtop.

Tuesday, 11th June, 2019

  • 08:18 PM - Gradine mentioned lowkey13 in post Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game
    ...sion knew him for at least a decade. Made him a face of the con by making him a Room Captain (this point being exactly why some people might not have felt safe going to the con organizer). Predators rely on "good ol' boy" networks to keep their dirty laundry private so they can keep being predators. That's the accountability piece. As for safety, well, I am sure there are cons where Kevin Rolfe will be more than welcome to run his games still. Are the people who would be most traumatized by his "shocking" content going to give pause to joining his games when they see his name on the listing, now? Public awareness makes people safe by giving them the information they need to avoid being traumatized by bad actors, while at the same time raising public accountability for those who might have otherwise given his behavior a pass. "or when we recklessly pursue a moral program of some kind in the wake of such an event" To be clear, the "moral program" in question is "rape = not acceptable". lowkey13 has covered this in better detail, but you are bringing moral relativism to an argument that is mostly centered around sexualized violence. Call both sides equally bad in their extremism is a false equivalence of the dangerous. "People who spring rape scenarios on players and then lie about in an interview with the guy who wrote 'In Defense of Rape' should not be allowed to be in our hobby" is not the moral or extreme equivalent to "LOL great job owning the libs!" and the latter are explicitly counting on well meaning people making that mistake. "I think there is a lot of cruelty being expressed in this thread and people don't see it, because they think they are so correct. Personally I am not a big fan of cruelty." Dannyalcatraz covered this in a point I see you have not responded to yet, in that: Foreseeable repercussions for actions =/= cruelty. I don't really have anything else to add to that.
  • 08:07 PM - Manbearcat mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    lowkey13 I think youíre more or less saying what I said in my initial post in this thread: Framing and understanding of dramatic device (arc composition and pacing, tropes) are fundamentally tethered. Insofar as they are (and they are), if one wants to fold ďunderstanding and deftness in deployment of dramatic deviceĒ into ďliteraryĒ, then weíre going to have a (self-imposed imo) communication impasse. My take on the lead post is the distinction being drawn is with respect to specific skill in word usage (exposition and elocution or oratory skills broadly...or scripting and then speaking). Again, that is on the hierarchy, but, IMO, much lower down than conflict/situation framing is (which, again, includes what I wrote above).

Monday, 10th June, 2019

  • 06:12 PM - hawkeyefan mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    lowkey13 My answer on the first page was in response to the thread title and little else. Upon spending more time to read and absorb the OP and some follow up posts, I clarified my stance. I believe that post is on page 2, perhaps 3. I think a lot of the confusion is really to be attributed to people not looking beyond the title. And I understand why....I did it myself...but itís just a headline in that sense. I agree that clarity has been needed at times, but trying to pin the problems of this thread on one thing seems limited. I think we can all do better. We can grant benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst, we can address each other individually rather than trying to lump everyone into one camp or the other, we can clarify or offer a different phrase when needed. Iíve enjoyed a good deal of the discussion at times, and found what others are saying to be interesting and worthwhile....but thereís also been a good deal of nonsense thatís taken up space.

Thursday, 30th May, 2019

  • 09:23 PM - CleverNickName mentioned lowkey13 in post Survivor Magic Jewelry (PART II)- SCARAB OF PROTECTION WINS!
    OK fair enough. So...why don't you like Ioun Stones then? Some give you powers like "You don't need to eat or drink while this clear spindle orbits your head." and "You are fluent in one additional language while this pulsating bit of red jeweled crystal orbits your head. The DM chooses the language bestowed by the stone."The two examples you give are my favorite Ioun Stones. If we were voting for them individually, the Stone of Sustenance would be my hands-down favorite. ( lowkey13 : That would be a pretty fun Survivor contest, now that I think about it: Survivor Specifics: Ioun Stones, Feather Tokens, and Figurines of Wondrous Power!) My beef with the Ioun Stones in this survey is that of the 13 Stones listed in the DMG, 10 of them are just statboosters. Since the bad considerably outnumber the good IMO, the category gets my downvote.

Wednesday, 29th May, 2019

  • 03:47 AM - Maxperson mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Words I learned today: "diegetic". That's quite a useful word for discussion of the IC/OOC distinction. There's a scene in "High Anxiety" in which ominous music plays, and the main characters (all in a car, on a coastal highway) tense up and look around. A bus comes the other way; the bus passengers are all musicians, an orchestra, playing the ominous music. Hmm. I would have used diuretic. lowkey13 clearly has better wordcraft than I do. :(

Tuesday, 28th May, 2019

  • 03:40 PM - darkbard mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Bold emphasis mine. I agree with you, but here is the rub, pemerton does not as per his OP. He does not even make that concession that someone could engage in a literary endeavour for their RPGing. This is the issue lowkey13 has been highlighting for a while. You are correct that lowkey13 keeps asserting this. But you are both wrong in your characterization of pemerton's position. Many times now he has articulated that all things being equal, literary presentation can improve the quality of a game, but that caveat requires that the core activity of TRPGing be not in the presentation itself but in the invitation to meaningful engagement of the situation on the part of the PCs, that at its heart the issue is not performance but framing situations that invite protagonism. I'm sure pemerton will correct me if I have inadvertendly mischaracterized his position.
  • 03:13 PM - Sadras mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    And I think this is fine. If you find the game to be a literary endeavor in this way, and if you are a GM in the style of Matt Mercer, then that is what you should do. I am not saying it can't be these things. All I am saying is it does not have to be these things. Matt Mercer's style of GMing isn't the only way, or the best way: it is just one way to it. Bold emphasis mine. I agree with you, but here is the rub, pemerton does not as per his OP. He does not even make that concession that someone could engage in a literary endeavour for their RPGing. This is the issue lowkey13 has been highlighting for a while.

Wednesday, 22nd May, 2019

  • 01:39 PM - jasper mentioned lowkey13 in post Mike Mearls interview re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh
    I agree with lowkey13 about spreading the books. I use a 33 inch 8 pocket luggage to haul my stuff. Another "core" book and I going have just start carry the basics of what I running that night. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K0863Q6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Friday, 17th May, 2019

  • 07:20 PM - Draegn mentioned lowkey13 in post What is missing in 5E that you had in other editions?
    lowkey13 Do the tables you miss include the roll a d12 for a date chart? Is this what dual rapier wielding gnome paladins have to do?
  • 06:54 PM - DMMike mentioned lowkey13 in post GMs are an endangered species!
    I don't think there was ever any risk to DMs, but yes, (5E is) a return to DM-centric mechanics, that put more of the pretend 'power' on the DM side of the DM/Player dynamic. It's harder to DM than 4e was (though still arguably easier than 3.x), and requires a different style of DMing. The Player v DM would, a most be 'emulated' - that is, the DM would have to set some bounds for himself to 'let the players win.' PvP would be fine, but would really /need/ a DM supervising it. I'd actually like to see 6E pick up where 4E left off, where some other games currently are, and make the GM role more mechanical - putting more narration in the hands of the players. I would expect it to go well with today's Burger King have-it-your-way players. And with a nod to "game modes," it could either leash or unleash the more creative (gonzo) players. Paizo would probably like that too. (Does Pathfinder have "GMs" or "DMs?") Regarding an earlier comment from lowkey13 - that there are no good DMs (snark noted) - what are today's games doing to make GMing easier, and thus, allowing the GM population to flourish? Not in terms of enabling PCs to co-GM, but having a clear GM role that isn't intimidating.

Thursday, 16th May, 2019

  • 12:54 PM - Maxperson mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    I come from the land of busting chops. This isnít busting chops. This is the territory of being insulting. And most people donít take bring insulted sitting down. Except not. I know for a fact that all I'm doing is having some fun, and not even all of it has to do with you at all, and what does is just ribbing. No insults at all. If you are feeling insulted, then you are seeing insult where there isn't any. Satyrn is one of the nicest people here, so I'm certain that she is also just having some fun with a bit of ribbing. lowkey13 I'm not as certain about, but he has a similar humor to mine, so I think he is probably doing the same as Satyrn and I.

Wednesday, 15th May, 2019

  • 01:08 AM - pemerton mentioned lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    pemerton has pretty strongly argued that presentation is not very important and that content is all that really matters. That the scenario regardless of how that scenario is communicated to the players is the most important thing at the table. I have used the words "literary" and "performance" in what I hope are reasonably clear senses. Theatre (typically) involves both. Salon repartee with Oscar Wilde or Dorothy Parker involves both. Conversation with friends typically invovles neither. I've also said - repeatedly, although lowkey13 may not have read those posts - that everything else being equal a mellifluous GM can be a good thing. But obviously much of the time everything is not equal. For example, pre-scripting which is often a precondition of literary quality in word-choice and a precondition for rehearsal of presentation, is at odds with the back-and-forth, the invitation-and-response, that I think is at the heart of RPGing. To frame invitation-and-response as scenario is harmless enough provided not too much weight is put on the latter. But obviously if, by scenario, one is talking about something pre-scripted and rehearsed, then that's not what I'm talking about. If a scenario doesn't speak to the players and engage their interest, and generate an emotional response in them, then my advice to the GM would always be work on your stuff. I would not be suggesting choose a different soundtrack. Iíd argue that presentation is equally important and you prove my point. A dm who presents information one ...

Monday, 13th May, 2019

  • 02:12 AM - Maxperson mentioned lowkey13 in post Survivor Magic Jewelry (PART I)- AMULET OF THE PLANES WINS!
    I don't know what the heck is going on. I open the page, click "Last" (and I make sure that the post I am looking at is, indeed, the last in the thread and not simply the last one I've read), copy it to clipboard, paste it into a new message, and then make my vote. Then I come back the next day and there are a handful of posts between the one I copied and the one I voted from. A squad of rapier-wielding Gnome Paladins made lowkey13 do it.

Tuesday, 30th April, 2019



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Tuesday, 18th June, 2019

  • 09:38 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    Well, more reliable is an objective statement (usually). You can give it a metric, and then say something is, or isn't, more reliable. Not "better." Not even "better designed." You could certainly say "better reliability" or, really, "better" a lot of other things, like "designed," because reliability /is/ a pretty standard design goal. What good is something that doesn't work, afterall? Because design incorporate other elements- and designing for reliability might get rid of other aspects that you do appreciate. Sure, like frequent opportunities to work on it! Or you might just not care about reliability in comparison to other things. Right, you may have a back-up vehicle on call at a moment's notice, for instance. Or the car might be a showpiece. But none of those make the more reliable car less reliable, or the unreliable one more so. The difference is real, and the reliable one is better by that metric. There are /plenty/ of quite objective metrics about cars, after. ...
  • 07:55 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    This shouldn't be too hard. "I want to design a car that works great for a lot of things. Not just driving fast, or looking good, or gas mileage, or any one thing. I want a vehicle that is functional for all things. It's pretty good at stuff, and carries stuff too. " That's a /different/ intended range of uses. It's more like reliability. Say a car is expected to run for 100k miles. One car, runs, with ordinary maintenance, 100k miles, no problem. Another, tends to break down frequently from the moment you drive it off the lot until it's had a little repair work and breaking-in, then it runs great, with ordinary maintenance, from 10-60k miles, then it starts breaking down again. Now, if you happen to LOVE working on cars, you make like that, a lot. Tuning & fixating it up just so in those early miles, and lovingly keeping it running later on. But you can't claim it doesn't break down, or that the other, boring, hateful, never-get-to-work-on it mockery of a real car isn't "more ...
  • 06:33 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    Lol... did you??? The only way this is true is if you are saying every one of Joshua Randall's assertions are purely objective facts... Oh, you went dark on that tangent, and now were back to the subjectivity portion of the ride. It's not exactly an unfamiliar pattern. Hey, when you asserted I had a pattern of not backing up my claims with facts, I went ahead and /did/. Why don't you "prove me wrong" the same way, and instead of waving the subjective flag at someone's post, get 'descriptive' with the thing they're talking about to illustrate how the facts maybe don't align exactly with their assertion? I'm just going to quote this part for the "whoosh" component. Y'know what, I'm going to skip the personal stuff - it's silly, we're both old-timers who love(d) the game in it's 1e form... we have too much common ground to go there. Subjective 1: The design goal makes for a better RPG or D&D.So, the design goal in question was to create a game that was functional at all phas...
  • 05:18 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    4e may not be to your tastes, it may have been a financial failure (debatable), it may have died a premature death due to various factors When your parent company gives you a 50 mil goal, with a 100 mil stretch, and development resources commensurate with those goals, and you pull down less than 50 mil, it's a financial failure - even though you were competing in a 20 mil market. -- but it was an excellently designed game.It was an astounding feat of design from the PoV of a long-time D&Der (this would be me) long since resigned to the many problems facing D&D being fundamentally insoluble. But excellent? No. Even at it's best, D&D has been, as just a game, in the technical sense, relatively poorly designed. Maybe it's just that 45 years really isn't that long for a brand-new /type/ of game to evolve? Maybe the design goals have never really been adequately laid out? Maybe RPGs are intrinsically resistant to good design because they're innately open-ended or "infinite" games? IDK....
  • 01:00 AM - Celebrim quoted lowkey13 in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    To put it in old school terms- (1)You can either just RP everything, in which case charisma is a useless dump stat and everything is determined by DM fiat as they judge your performance; or (2) you can use a resolution mechanic for social events, in which case RP is just a mechanic. There isn't any "right" answer, but these are decidedly different approaches. I'm not sure that there is a "right" answer (that is, there is probably more than one good way to do things), but I do think that there are wrong answers. In any event, assuming that both of those are right answers, I think that they are also a false dichotomy. It's not true that either everything is determined by DM fiat or else RP is just a mechanic. There are definitely ways to both engage in RP and also have some system for resolving social tests that doesn't depend only on DM fiat. The real question is just how much prep time do you want to engage in in order to minimize fiat during the run time (fiat during the prep...
  • 12:45 AM - Arilyn quoted lowkey13 in post On the Inscrutability of AD&D and Ye Olde Styles of Play
    AD&D isn't 2e. Dem's fighting words. The first sign that AD&D was suffering from the consumption was the publication of Unearthed Arcana; the DSG and WSG was the coughing up of blood in bed; 2e was the final death rattle. ;) (I think that the individualized experiences of times past is often opaque, and while greater understandings can be achieved, true understanding is often elusive.) For some, the first ominous cough in D&D occurred with the publication of Greyhawk and Blackmoor.:.-(

Monday, 17th June, 2019

  • 10:48 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    So when Tony claims "4e was as good a game as D&D ever managed to be"...coming back with 'But not as many people liked it!' is meaningless and doesn't address the point. Now, I mean, he doesn't really back up his claim with anything and its fine if you disagree. ::shrug:: A more accurate claim would be that "4e was not nearly as bad a game as every other edition of D&D." Because, honestly, it still wasn't that good. Scale of 1 to 10? D&D's never risen to 5. I'm not sure any RPG has, TTRPG is a new kind of game, and it's evolved very slowly over a mere 45 years. Well, the difference being that this would be the release of a system that is no longer supported, and isn't very popular (no offense). None taken. D&D has only been fairly popular in the fad years of the mid 80s and the current come-back. And /ad populum/ remains a fallacy. But that's not the only difference. Hasbro bought WotC with the 3.0 SRD a fiat acompli. The genie was out of the bottle, the 3.5 and 5e SRDs don't r...
  • 10:36 PM - HJFudge quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    I didn't want to comment on the rest of your post, but something stuck with me, and I went back, and this was it. There is a large disconnect if you keep insisting (as I have seen various designers insist) that the consumers are "just doing it wrong." Let's give an easy example- a lot of what you hear is engineered to please you. Like ... the thunk of your car door when it closes. You may, or may not, know this but the door doesn't naturally sound like this anymore (the deep and satisfying clunk); instead, engineers had to alter car doors to provide the sound that people were expecting and wanting. You know where this is going, right? Okay, how about when you take a photo on your phone- that satisfying sound of the shutter noise that doesn't exist. It's all electronic, so why not have it sound like, oh, church bells ringing? Because that's the sound people expect. At some point, people will expect the signifier (the shutter sound) without even having a reference to the signified (a physical ...
  • 09:44 PM - Shiroiken quoted lowkey13 in post On the Inscrutability of AD&D and Ye Olde Styles of Play
    But it did make me think- if people had trouble finishing the 1e modules, how on earth are people finishing the APs? Anecdotally, I know that some of the teen groups that I taught and gone off on their own haven't been able to finish an AP. :(From my understanding, a lot of campaigns die out before they finish the AP. Honestly there are quite a few old BECMI, 1E, and 2E adventures that could easily become a full AP with very little additional work (assuming you don't have to start at level 1). Castle Amber is a great example of this, and the Desert of Desolation trilogy is another. I've found when converting old adventures into 5E, it's easier to just take the concept of the adventure, then boil away a lot of the extra stuff. I ran Against the Cult of the Reptile God in 3 sessions of 4 hours each by cutting the temple down to 1 encounter of cultists and the lair itself into 6 increasingly difficult encounters. If I'd tried to run it as it was, my players probably would have tired of the comba...
  • 09:18 PM - Tony Vargas quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    I'm going to post a few thoughts on this, while noting that some of your statements are not going to be agreeable, and that may be why certain things are missed by you (such as 3e and 4e merely "consolidating" "needless complexity" of prior editions). 3e & 4e /certainly/ consolidated a lot of needless complexity. Just the d20 core mechanic was huge (tiny?) that way. Nothing 'mere' about it. Necessary Disclaimer I don't care about any edition wars; I think everything since UA in 1985 is, for the most part, crud, Yet, here you are, weighing in. ;P why do I start by saying that 4e was a failure? Because it was. The system was designed to[s] 1) represent a break from 3e; 2) provide a new path forward for D&D; 3) provide a basis for CRPGs based on the 4e engine; 4) provide a subscription-based revenue stream for Hasbro; 5) attract new gamers that had not previously played D&D; and 6) crush PF and the nascent retroclone/OSR market and re-establish official licensed Hasbro D&D as...
  • 08:59 PM - HJFudge quoted lowkey13 in post Should I play 4e?
    I'm going to post a few thoughts on this, while noting that some of your statements are not going to be agreeable, and that may be why certain things are missed by you (such as 3e and 4e merely "consolidating" "needless complexity" of prior editions). Necessary Disclaimer I don't care about any edition wars; I think everything since UA in 1985 is, for the most part, crud, and 5e is ... it's fine. It's good. I'm running 5e right now, along with 1e (AD&D) and I'm doing a Moldvay/Cook B/X. I think the rest is, well, whatever. 2e or 4e, it's all the same crud IMO. Play what you want. I'll probably make fun of it. In fact, I'll probably mock it even more if it's what I'm playing (because familiarity, contempt, and because then I can write better jokes from a place of knowledge). Good? Okay, so here's what I can discern based on the research I've been trying to do on pro-, anti-, and supposedly neutral 4e websites. Everyone ties to claim a success, but a failure (and 4e was a failure, as I wi...
  • 03:07 AM - Travis Henry quoted lowkey13 in post Narrative/Novel D&D...ND&D. Imagine if the game played just like the D&D novels?
    I guess what I'm getting at is that you're probably better off just designing a good diceless game or adapting a low-rules, high narrative fantasy game for your needs, than you are reverse-engineering. You have a good point, yet, for me, there's something impelling about D&D Fiction itself. I'm especially interested in the D&D Multiverse and its stories. It seems to me that, say, the Icewind Dale Trilogy or the Dragonlance Chronicles could be converted into a ruleset that plays as quickly as the time it takes to read the novels. And I'm stoked by how Salvatore describes scenes. I want a game that bakes that quick descriptiveness into the game itself. There's a bunch of D&D picturesque color and lore in the D&D Fiction which hasn't really made back into the TRPG in a systemic way. For example, the verbal spell components as depicted in D&D Fiction: e.g. "Shirak!" and "Dulak!" (Light and Darkness spell). In ND&D, the player would actually voice (narrate) the verbal spell components!

Sunday, 16th June, 2019

  • 11:05 PM - Bedrockgames quoted lowkey13 in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    ????? Um ... maybe it's because I use a lot of words and stuff, or maybe it's because you don't read the footnotes and/or have not seen the greatest movie of all time, but I don't think I could have been more clear. Sometimes, I just like to see what people are thinking. In fact, that's almost all the times I start a thread. I'm more curious as to what other people think, because I know what I think. I read it all and have seen the John Wick movies, but I just was confused by the wording of your post I think.
  • 09:29 PM - Bedrockgames quoted lowkey13 in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Well, I wish I was that enlightened! As you can tell from my other threads* I enjoy violence as much as the next person. It was more, "Why?" And specifically, "Why so much in the RPGs?" The predicate was, as I mentioned, re-visiting B2, which not only allowed a particular strain of hobomurder that was common in the late 70s and early 80s ... it encouraged it. Even to a "realistic" extent that you wouldn't see in other modules. (...and this is the part where you have to exterminate the grieving kobold women and children ... and this is the part where you can decide to kill the mentally ill hermit for his stuff ...). Which is to say, I was trying to understand why: A. I can be bothered by this; yet... B. Not be particularly bothered by the "generic" D&D setting (go to monster's home, see monster, kill monster, take monster's stuff, repeat until you get more powerful in order to kill more powerful monsters in their homes). And I was also reflecting on the broader cultural tendencies, especi...
  • 09:26 PM - gyor quoted lowkey13 in post Best D&D adventures/modules in a desert?
    That's because it's not. When most people discuss "DoD,"* they are talking about the classic I3, I4, I5. Pharoah (later I3) was first created by Hickman in the 70s, and then expanded to the I3-I5. It is setting-agnostic, although, if it had to have a setting, it would be Greyhawk, because all modules from that era were either explicitly Greyhawk (like Saltmarsh, Tsojcanth) or had to be considered a part of the setting. After the ouster of Gygax, TSR first published FR in 1987- AFTER the publication of the individual I3-I5 modules (five years after). At the same time, they put out a compendium book (I3-I5 combined into a single volume called "Desert of Desolation") that did the following: A. Slightly expanded the material, and made it worse. B. Shoehorned the setting into the FR. This was the first, and earliest, example of how everything good and fun and happy eventually gets pushed into the FR and becomes sucky. ;) ...IMO. Anyway, don't use the 1987 material! Use ...

Saturday, 15th June, 2019

  • 07:18 PM - DMMike quoted lowkey13 in post Free RPG Day, Modos RPG, and You
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/9/97/Blackknight.png Oh, oh I see. Running away, eh?! You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll impale you!! That lost SO much of its kick when the image didn't load for me. Now it rocks! Here's hoping everyone is loading up on free RPG goodies today!
  • 02:48 AM - pemerton quoted lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    What do they have in common? All of them? Um .... strange use of scare quotes/asterisks!I don't understand what you're trying to achieve. If you're not interested in the topic as it's been framed or discussed, or think the thread is unhelpful, you're very welcome not to post in it. If you think my threads involve code-of-conduct violation, you have the option of reporting them. Are you trying to pick a fight and have this thread shut down? Are you trying to clutter the thread with enough off-topic nonsense to prove your point that the thread shouldn't exist? If you want to take part in a thread about the use of literary/narrative devices in RPGing, then why not start one?

Friday, 14th June, 2019

  • 10:23 PM - Len quoted lowkey13 in post Formatting- Quotes Not Coming Out Correctly
    I will say that when I do a regular cut and paste from certain comments, the text I paste has a weird semi-border around it which is barely visible. When you paste it in, does the text include a "COLOR=" tag?
  • 10:03 PM - Parmandur quoted lowkey13 in post New survey from WotC about boxed sets
    Interesting! Thank you for the link. FWIW, I would like a boxed set (as in new stuff, not just a re-skinned beginners' box, or collecting the previously-published books). Something like the ... wait for it ... GREYHAWK BOXED SET. Why? MAPS, MAPS, MAPS. Guides, maps, that would be cool. Especially maps. Big maps. BIG COLOR MAPS. Dude, for real. It strikes me that a colorful, flashy campaign in a box might be perfect for the "shopping for my Middle Schooler at Target" crowd that they have signaled is so important...
  • 02:07 PM - Manbearcat quoted lowkey13 in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    "I can't frame that. There's loads and loads of things you just did that might as well be magic!" You see where I'm going with this, yes? So when you ascribe positions on the hierarchy, it's necessarily from the position you have now; as you would put it, your aptitude bias. It is somewhat difficult to fully grok the ways in which you have internalized the techniques you use, and how they impact your game... things that you now think of as merely incidental to framing, but which are both necessary and a predicate. Since we both watch sports, I will use an analogy- a lot of people enjoy criticizing sports commentators (pick your sport, say, football). But have you ever tried to do it yourself? IT IS INSANELY HARD. Or, just watch an amateur calling a high school game on local access. With reps, and time, people eventually get good at it. They learn when to speak, when not to speak, when to let the images create the drama, and when to fill in space (blowouts, say). After a while it becomes seco...


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