View Profile: Bedrockgames - Morrus' Unofficial Tabletop RPG News
  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Today, 12:22 AM
    Even if it is all me, which it usually isn't, there is a very big difference in my mind between a scene and a situation. A scene to me suggests I have something I want to present to the group, as well as a strong sense of where it should go. A situation is something where I the GM can be just as surprised as the players by where things go. Generally the starting point of the campaign, obviously I...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:28 PM
    It is about one style predominating. I am not anti-intellectual but I am anti-elitism, especially when gamers who don't talk like they came from the suburbs end up feeling out of place in the hobby (which I've seen many times firsthand). And while yes, you are right, we should all be entitled to our preferences, and there is nothing wrong with the GM narrating or talking more in a prose...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:06 PM
    I am reacting to a situation, not narrating a scene. There is a HUGE difference
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:55 PM
    I don't think speaking in natural conversational style is deliberate in the way speaking in a narrator voice is deliberate. This just seems like we are blurring distinctions in order to make them ultimately the same (back to 'everything is literature').
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:34 PM
    I have a video session too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLZnEbaKvNk
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 23rd June, 2019, 02:39 AM
    I don't know. Lol. I have a couple of people who have blocked me as well (which is their right if they don't like my posts). But it creates some strange effects like the post counts being different (which led to some serious misunderstanding in a previous thread when one poster tried directing me to a particular number post---which was different for me than him).
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 23rd June, 2019, 02:36 AM
    Pacing is something I don't even care about as a GM. I should say, dramatic pacing. I don't care for doing dramatic pacing. Obviously if everyone is twiddling their thumbs, I will try to keep the game moving. But I don't worry about pacing in terms of the flow of combat (i.e. getting the right level of rising action and a sense of things building). If the players shank the villain when he turns...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 23rd June, 2019, 02:33 AM
    yes, I would agree that is more narrative in style, and it is the thing I tend to avoid. My notes are never in boxed text form. I have notes on what is there, who is there, what people want, and I have connective tissue between those elements and other elements. But I never write out a description like that. I will occasionally be atmospheric, but not in a 'narrative way'. By which I mean, I...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 03:29 PM
    Yes, but we are all only responsible for our own posts, not how people choose to react to them
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 12:49 PM
    Okay, so not going to type out an example. But here is a recording of a session. Listening to it, I think one of the key things is my reliance on the question and answer part of GM description. I try to keep the descriptions fairly accurate and straight forward. I use occasionally flashes of color. But I also lean on a fairly dry delivery: https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-tty8j-8e1d83 EDIT: That...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 11:48 AM
    There are different GM styles and play styles. This is one I have encountered and plenty of people enjoy it. It isn't my style, but it is one that is entirely enjoyable if you aren't uptight and walking around with a checklist of 'what a GM must do to entertain me' list.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 11:43 AM
    Everyone is in control of their own posts. No one can make you post uncivilly. I see more than one poster being uncivil.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 11:41 AM
    You keep not accurately describing both my position and Aldarc's. By conversational I don't mean blue collar level speech. It can include the of course. To me part of conversational speaking is talking in your natural voice and without trying to put on airs or trying to emulate written text. But I keep telling you it isn't strictly about vocabulary as well. It is also about style, structure,...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 04:14 AM
    Man, for the topic, this getting way too heated
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 02:09 AM
    This seems very inflexible to me. I am fine with concrete cases of 'your character doesn't really know X'. But vague meta gaming like leaning toward suspicion of one NPC because of how that NPC is described? That feels more like following an obvious hint by the GM than anything else. Now maybe you prefer not to give such obvious hints. And that is fine. But I can't fault a GM who does (or a...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 01:34 AM
    This seems pretty harsh to me. Policing meta gaming like that just feels extreme. And I don't think it is cheating. Different RPGs state different things about meta gaming. Some don't even mention meta gaming at all.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 01:20 AM
    I would say there is a huge difference, and the difference was quite clear on the previous thread and has been pretty stark here as well. I am not interested in debating the characteristics of boxed text, needless to say, I find boxed text, in my experience, to be more evocative than you do (though maybe that just reflects the types of models we both gravitate towards). What I will say is by...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 01:04 AM
    By prose, I simply meant speaking like a narrator of a novel
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 12:49 AM
    That has been one of the difficulties of finding clarity in the conversation. It is basically shorthand for speaking in 'boxed text' or 'prose' style.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Saturday, 22nd June, 2019, 12:46 AM
    Guys, two people asserting victory in another thread doesn't shed any light on who made their point better.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 11:57 PM
    Then I give them a little evocative narration because fun at the table is more important than ideas about what works at the table. But I won't go full pathfinder because of one player either. It is about the mix of the group. I view running a game like making food for everyone. You can't cleave to an ideologically pure playstyle if you have mixed groups, and most groups are mixed. At the same...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 11:54 PM
    No, I am spending enough time posting. I am not going to spend more writing examples out.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 11:51 PM
    My style isn't neutral. It just accepts peoples communication styles and keeps things conversational. I may have one player who really hams up the acting, another who is much more reserved and descriptive, another who talks much more casually and uses a lot of slang. But one feature of my style is I avoid artificial sounding descriptions. I try to stick to plain English, and I give my players...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:52 PM
    There is nothing wrong with Gygaxian. I just see it as one of many communication styles. When I meet people, I always make a point of accepting their way of talking. I've just seen a tendency among gamers to judge based on how they speak, even when the substance of what the person saying is very good.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:47 PM
    Sure it is. You don't think we can bridge communication divides by being more empathetic and making more of an effort to understand one another and accept different communication styles? I don't know, for this is basically how I always conduct myself. I don't fault a GM for speaking in a blue-collar Boston accent using blue collar Boston vernacular for example (or any other style of talking I...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:44 PM
    This. I would just add what I am trying to say in my previous posts is communication is a two-way street. The listener needs to try to understand the GM as well. Again, my point was about people coming in from different backgrounds for example, where the language use is totally understandable but not necessarily part of the accepted 'geek way' of communicating tone X. I just find that part of...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:24 PM
    I am not saying it doesn’t matter, I am saying it shouldn’t matter. And what references people get also shouldn’t matter. Most of the hobby is centered around suburban nerd culture and communication style. I think prioritizing/favoring that way if communicating limits the hobby.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 02:37 PM
    I guess my concern with this approach, at a fundamental level, is it leads to setting a bar where only people who talk like 'nerds' can sit in the GM chair, or even play. It is actually one of the big hurdles to getting people interested in the game that I encounter when talking to people outside of gaming. We tend to interpret intellect by how 'well spoken' a GM is and by their vocabulary. I...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:57 AM
    I grew up in a very, very religious community. I think delusional is a strong word but I do think Celebrim is hitting on something that is real. There does seem to be a religious like impulse in the chasing of perfection here. And there is an ultimate evil that we are trying to purge (even when, as you yourself point out, it isn't fully evil itself, it is just imperfect---referring to your...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Friday, 21st June, 2019, 10:49 AM
    People just genuinely disagree about this stuff. It doesn't mean they are evil. I find the colonialism in D&D argument fairly silly myself. I don't think the people advancing the argument are bad. I just think they are seeing something that isn't there and they have an elaborate argument defending it. Personally I find the logic a bit tortured. But I find the logic for lots of things tortured....
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Thursday, 20th June, 2019, 07:16 PM
    I don't want to rehash this argument, because there is a closed thread dedicated to it (and I am still finding that discussion very unpleasant to think about). But I think this is a very strange way to make an argument. Number one, this book isn't even translated into English (at least not commercially). But more importantly anyone can write a book like that to make something look bad. But he is...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Thursday, 20th June, 2019, 07:13 PM
    Celebrim made this point but neither was the original Ravenloft module about killing faceless orcs. That sort of became Ravenloft's whole thing with dark lords (which Strahd was the model for). I don't know I think people are often under the mistaken assumption if they can make their violent entertainment more wholesome or more morally appropriate, that will somehow fix the world. I think...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 19th June, 2019, 12:19 AM
    But this seems very much not objective because you are defining away games you don't like. I think this is a classic problem in gaming taxonomy and nomenclature where we often frame the language in a way that gives primacy to our preferred playstyle and minimizes other play styles.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 19th June, 2019, 12:14 AM
    But that isn't what adjudication means. Adjudication is just making a judgement. I would agree there are different kinds of adjudications. There is a distinction between a rules adjudication and a setting adjudication. But they are both judgments the GM is expected to render. I think framing them as authoring is actually something of a problem. The GM should always be mindful in my view of his or...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 07:47 PM
    Okay but this is subjective. This isn't objective categorization. What you consider authoring, I consider adjudication.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 06:48 PM
    And I do know people who play that way. But I don’t smoke or drink
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 06:27 PM
    We just see things differently then. The GM deciding what happens when the players do something in the world, I file that under adjudication. I think we just have fundamentally different ways of thinking about play Umbran.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 06:19 PM
    Typo. Just fixed it
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    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 05:25 PM
    I never said that. Everyone is different Umbran. Not crapping on social mechanics. But you don’t need them to to play
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 03:09 AM
    He could do that, but I think combat is a lot harder to adjudicate in that way than talking (which I explained in an earlier post). But if it is genuinely lethal, any time you engage in combat it is a risky proposition. Look, you might have reckless players who do this, particularly if they don't care if their character dies or if the premise of the campaign involves a high level of...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 02:24 AM
    Again, I think there is a big difference between combat and non-combat situations here. I've certainly seen people upset about the 18 CHR paladin thing, but that still doesn't require a whole system dedicated to social mechanics. It just requires the GM stay on the ball and fairly incorporate the CHR score. At the same time, I've not seen nearly as many fights and arguments over this sort of...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, 01:15 AM
    I just think RPGs are generally harder to run without them than they are without social mechanics. Doesn't mean you have to have them. You can just use fiat if you want. But I think you will run into more contention if and when combat comes up if it isn't perceived to be a fair system. What I will say is I don't think having zero combat mechanics is the best way to discourage combat. Players...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:52 PM
    Not if you want people to talk in character and have what they say be the thing that determines whether the king is persuaded. I am not saying social mechanics are not useful, or are bad. But I mean you don't have to have them just because you want social interaction in the game (especially if you want actual social interaction in the game).
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:50 PM
    This
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    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:43 PM
    Sure if there is no combat in a game, then you don't need combat rules really. But I think the key thing here is social interactions are things we can actually play out at the table. I can talk in character to the GM playing an NPC and to other players playing their characters. I can't really do that with combat. We are not going to take out boffer weapons to resolve combat. We need a mechanic....
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:39 PM
    Sure. I mean the GM adjudicates things all the time that are not covered by the rules, and in those moments the GM is acting as a sort of game mechanic. They are not referees in the same way that a boxing match or soccer match has. They are also there playing a world around the players. I don't need a mechanic to decide something interesting happens, or to decide how a baker responds to a player...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 07:37 PM
    All I meant was more people are able to play the game with an absence of social mechanics than they are with an absence of combat mechanics. i wasn't addressing whether more people wanted them or not. Personally my impression is more people do want social mechanics than don't. This is why I include them in my own games, despite not being partial to them myself.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 07:23 PM
    I never said this at all. This is a matter of preference. Some people like social interaction rules, some people don't. Both options are fine. Personally I am less inclined to social interaction rules because I have trouble using them in practice. But I don't think there is a problem wit them being in a game. My only point was you can still have plenty of social interaction even if there are no...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:57 PM
    I disagree very strongly. It isn't just about the stakes. It is about how difficult it is to adjudicate something as physically unpredictable and dynamic as combat fairly without a resolution system. With social situations, it is much easier to adjudicate based on the NPC personality in question and the reasonableness of what players are proposing. Negotiations are things we do all the time. Not...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 06:26 PM
    Fair enough. You can run without either, but on the whole I think most people want combat rules. It is a lot harder in my opinion to adjudicate a game with zero combat rules than one with zero social rules. I think most social interacts can easily be handled by role-play. Combat screams for a resolution mechanism
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 04:08 PM
    You don’t need rules to deal with social interaction and many other aspects of play. But you need combat rules
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 02:36 PM
    This so does not match my experience of play. When you have a group of characters with mixed skills (Magic User, Cleric, Fighter, Thief, Monk), it makes complete sense not to fight every monster that is guarding its treasure, but to use your brains to steal it.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Monday, 17th June, 2019, 10:27 AM
    You are painting a straw man here. You got XP for gold in AD&D and you honestly wouldn't survive long if you fought everything the moved. AD&D was definitely about being clever. Yes hack and slash was a thing too. But problem solving was just as much as feature of the game. In pretty much every AD&D game I have played in, and in most OSR games I've played in, 40% of encounters not being resolved...
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    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 11:05 PM
    I read it all and have seen the John Wick movies, but I just was confused by the wording of your post I think.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 09:29 PM
    I made that post because when I challenged the notion a few pages back, people took pains to explain the thread wasn't about eliminating violence from RPGs or eliminating a certain kind of violence from RPGs. If you are advocating for a shift in gaming culture when it comes to violence, let me know because I want to make sure I understand the thread's intent. And I think I am not 100% clear now...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 02:12 PM
    Different people have different preferences in gaming. The OP indicates he doesn't seem to mind if other people engage in that kind of violence at the table. He just is personally uncomfortable with it these days. I think there are different cultures of play as well. In the groups I run things with, no one cares about violence, and no one is concerned about stuff mentioned in this thread. But...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 01:22 PM
    Personally I am totally fine with violence in RPGs and fine with hack N slash style campaigns. I think it depends on what you want though. If I am in a Noir Campaign, I expect more focus on role-play and solving problems in ways that don't involve combat. But nothing wrong with being Conan or Bruce Lee either.
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    Sunday, 16th June, 2019, 01:35 AM
    No, apologies. EDIT: Just want to draw attention to the comma (that should probably be a period).
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    Saturday, 15th June, 2019, 10:20 PM
    This was the division that existed in the thread in question. Not saying it has to be one or the other.
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    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 08:46 PM
    Some of those AD&D monsters were brutal and the only guideline I remember using was monster HD and eyeballing things like damage output. My recollection of AD&D (both 1E and 2E) was it could be quite lethal. 3E could also be a lethal system, but there was a lot of ink spent dealing with things like Encounter Levels and having GMs pace encounter levels. So my experience with 3E involved a lot...
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    Friday, 14th June, 2019, 08:43 PM
    How on earth did we get into bonobos here.
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 08:09 PM
    I am no scientist but this seems quite wrong as well. I mean I did at least minor in philosophy and even there blank slate theory wasn't taken particularly seriously. I don't think celebrims conclusions seem accurate either, but there is at least some amount of truth to people having a natural state (like any other animal) and part of that natural state probably includes a certain amount of...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 08:05 PM
    Agreed about the natural resistance to taking human life. My comment was just about the military encouraging slurs
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 06:35 PM
    This doesn't sound like it is true, or at the very least not true for a very long time (been googling it and can't find much); do you have sources on this? This doesn't match what I've heard from people in the military I've spoken with.
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 06:29 PM
    I am pretty sure when soldiers go to war militaries have to work against a natural aversion to killing other people. This seems like an extreme simplification. Even if you look at a lot of those ancient armies, many of them were professional, others were class or caste based, not everyone was involved in the fighting.
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 05:56 PM
    Was there a reason for quoting me (just genuinely not sure and not sure if you were inviting a reply)
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 04:09 PM
    This is interesting. My reaction is the opposite. When the GM is speaking in prose and it feels like I need to wait to weigh in, I feel less connected to my character and the setting.
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:45 PM
    Fair enough, just started a thread.
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:42 PM
    This comes from a topic in another thread where GM description came up. Some posters saw the GM's role as that of narrator, preferring a style of description that felt like prose from a novel, others preferred a more conversational approach. The first approach was more literary, placed emphasis on being evocative and building a sense of atmosphere. The second focused more on plain spoken language...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 03:06 PM
    I think it is also just a natural thing that people like to see in their entertainment. Violence isn't unique to RPGs. It exists in movies, books, television and even music. I watch a lot of Kung Fu films and a lot of action movies. And I think the reason I like those is probably tied to the same reason I like killing monsters in an RPG or having a campaign that is about a massive sect war. It is...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:59 PM
    Yes, we've been getting sucked into that debate on the thread. We've also been sucked into debates over the meaning of words. I am not denying that. But I think the central conflict is fundamentally over what kinds of descriptions we enjoy from the Gamemaster, and was more at the heart of the conversation. At the very least I think it is a more productive conversation to have. I've entertained...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 02:42 PM
    I do the same thing actually. But this reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. The presentation is the same, you are just interpreting the presentation differently based on a mechanic. However I think we are getting pretty far afield of the crux of the debate. It really isn't about whether one is more important than the other. It is more about what kind of delivery/presentation/description...
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    Thursday, 13th June, 2019, 11:48 AM
    Why am I getting warned, I didn't bring the other thread up. I was talking about this thread.
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 11:16 PM
    I assumed it was the reason behind Elfcrushers discomfort. But it was also a fairly throw-away comment on my part. Not something I am hellbent on defending.
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 10:06 PM
    Yes I read what you wrote.
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 10:05 PM
    Also others on the thread brought up this topic so figured might as well weigh in on that point. Happy to engage you elf, but not going to do so if you continue to speak to me like this. A modicum of respect or politeness would be appreciated
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 10:02 PM
    I assumed this was the reason behind the discomfort with violence in RPGs
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 08:29 PM
    I think a key difference though is the trolley car problem asks students what they would do, RPGs are asking what the character would do. And the reason it matters in the trolley car problem is because it reveals something about how we value human life. But let’s be clear: the trolley car problem is still just a thought exercise. It still is imaginary. That said how Rob reacts to the trolley...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 06:06 PM
    I don't disagree. But you are misreading what I am saying. I am saying exactly because what you said is true we should pay more attention to substance than packaging, more attention to a person's ideas than the rhetoric they wrap it up in, and more attention to what a GM is actually saying than the way they are saying it. So I wasn't denying that people pay attention to how things are said. I...
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 11:43 AM
    I have seen this. I've played with great GMs who used a lot of awkward phrasing and had trouble describing things on the fly. This is where the players asking questions really helps things. I generally didn't find these experiences to be diminished by the GM's difficulty. Oratory isn't everything. Substance is often more important to me. Sometimes there is a direct line of causation between...
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 11:33 AM
    If you are looking at cars as an analogy, I think basic information on a table so you can compare systems and settings easy (System, Cost, Complexity, Style//Genre, Rating/Ranking (if applicable), etc).
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 11:23 AM
    This is my view of it. Not a fan of real world violence but I love action and martial arts movies. Combat in RPGs is cathartic. It isn't against real people or creatures.
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 11:21 AM
    I played through the caves of chaos a few years ago and my impression is the presence of the children and women were actually great RP opportunities.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 03:51 AM
    Or I am just not expressing myself well. Sometimes it isn't easy to post responses in these threads. Especially when it is an emotional and controversial subject.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 03:47 AM
    The player interviewed who I was reacting to never mentioned being a survivor of sexual violence in the interview. It is possible this person is a sexual violence survivor. But I don't think we can leap to that conclusion (unless I missed something in the interview). I did see in the interview that the player was given a job with the con establishing safety guidelines in the wake of this. Again,...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:54 AM
    I am not saying people are whiny babies. And in this particular case I have only a vague description of cries being had by all. I don’t know who is a survivor of what in the scenario. But the thing that makes me pause is there is an entire group of adults crying over content that arose in the game. If it were just the person at the table, it would make more sense to me. But I think there is s...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:49 AM
    I was giving my reaction of an account of the situation that I had just been pointed to. And that fed into some points about a broader discussion over gaming community issues. All I was saying about it was that particular moment raised my suspicions and it just seemed an odd reaction to me. It doesn’t mean I think the account is flat wrong. The account by the GM also has things in it that raise...
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    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 02:01 AM
    I think people are mixing up what I am saying here. I am not saying a rape survivor crying is abnormal. I am saying a group of people crying in that way, together, as half of them are in a position of authority handling the situation, strikes me as very non-adult. I am saying something about the interview sets off alarm bells for me. You don't have to share that feeling. But I don't have to adopt...
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 01:55 AM
    Again, this is projection. I am definitely not xenophobic or racist. Nor am I misogynistic. Obviously I don't share many of the key ideological assumptions present on this thread. But I am on the left and none of the things you accuse me of. And I would just draw a line once again to the degree of moral certainty people seem to be feeling and their ability to be rude and cruel.
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  • Bedrockgames's Avatar
    Wednesday, 12th June, 2019, 01:46 AM
    I am not dead set against human decency and I am not a troll.
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Monday, 24th June, 2019


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Monday, 24th June, 2019

  • 02:52 PM - Michael Silverbane mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    So... To me, when the DM is describing things, setting the scene, relaying the results of actions, he is doing narration. Doing it in a conversational style doesn't make it not narration. In addition, the choice of using a conversational style still seems pretty deliberate. So, like in Bedrockgames 's case, he uses this style for a more authentic, easily accessible feel, and because he and his players prefer it. Similarly Saelorn uses a neutral, "just the facts" style of narration in an effort not to unduly influence his players. So... Word choice and phrasing are important, even if they are sometimes important for different things. Personally, I tend to move back and forth pretty fluidly between more fancy-pants talk and colloquialism depending on a number of factors, including things like, 'I thought of a cool thing ans want to try to express that to my players.' or, 'Steve is looking hangry, perhaps I can annoy him by using a lot of food words.' or, 'this combat is getting pretty intense, I'd better keep my descriptions punchy and on point.'
  • 02:29 PM - Aldarc mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    ... is vocabulary choice? After all, you didn't change any word order. So, is it down to vocabulary, yes or no?He's using simpler language, but I don't think he is necessarily using simpler vocabulary. There is not much difference of vocabulary between "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" and "it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about." And we could hardly say that those differences amount to any notions of higher vocabulary: e.g., fine, guest, once, what, was. Stylistically, however, the former does appear more elevated than the latter. The analysis I've just offered might also be relevant to the ongoing exchange between Imaro and Aldarc (? I think, haven't gone back to check) about what a conversational style might actually look like.I'll freely admit that Imaro's task if a bit of a tall order for me. It's essentially asking for pre-scripting out an imaginary conversation, which is an artificial scenario devoid of context. That's what makes Bedrockgames's contribution so valuable, because he was able to link to the audio from one or more actual play sessions.

Sunday, 23rd June, 2019

  • 02:09 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    LOL. So, essentially, all Saelorn is seeing of this thread is Bedrockgames talking to himself? Unless Imaro somehow avoided the block hammer. ROTFLMAO. That has to be the WEIRDEST thread to see. :D :lol: Ok, so, yeah, Aldarc and Bedrockgames, I'd put things like diction, organization, that sort of stuff, under the umbrella of "presentation". How you get the information from A to B, rather than the content of that information itself. Now, at that point, sure, I can see a more conversational style being one way of doing it. Less formal, less formulaic. And, again, it's going to really, really depend on the game you are playing. Some games will necessitate a more "narrative" style just to evoke particular moods and tones. I just find that when I do that, and don't work from well structured notes (or boxed text) I forget stuff. I miss details. The other issue I have is pacing. Which, honestly, is my own bugaboo. As someone running the game, I want to get as much information into the player's hands as quickly and efficiently as possible. W...

Saturday, 22nd June, 2019

  • 05:52 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    ...ell, again, I might argue vocabulary is an issue in there. After all, it's not an every day conversation that will include words like "caprice" "three and twenty years", "mean understanding" and "solace". After all, those are most certainly not going to appear in most people's conversations. And, with the Harry Potter example, it's interesting that you choose that since around 98% of the words in the first Harry Potter book appear in the first 2000 most common English words. That's about as close to conversation level vocabulary as you can possibly get. :D But, I agree that this is obviously prose. It's prose, because, as you say, the "organized structure, style, and tone." Which, if you go back into the other thread, I was told absolutely DOESN'T define the difference between conversation and narrative. Which is why we've been chasing our tails so much because every time I try to say, "Well, is this what you're talking about?" I get told, nope, that's not it. I mean, Bedrockgames isn't agreeing with you here. For him, conversational means using a "blue collar" level of speech mixed with modern vernacular. It's very much focused on the vocabulary and not the style. I tend to agree with you that it is usually the style, but, again, that's not quite as simple as it seems. After all, you say that the descriptions of the Dursely's from Harry Potter is obviously prose and not a transcription of someone describing them. However, the only real difference would be things like pauses, digressions and false starts. Nothing in that description is particularly un-conversational. It's rehearsed, sure and obviously more polished than what you'd get in a conversation. But, it's not particularly something you'd never hear someone say.
  • 03:37 AM - Aldarc mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    ... as vocabulary. It's about how complexly or formally we construct and arrange our uttered thoughts, but this is not the same thing as vocabulary. For example, if we were to look at this sample description about a husband and wife, we could probably recognize that this is literary prose as opposed to a conversational description. Mr. [CHARACTER] was so odd a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humour, reserve, and caprice, that the experience of three and twenty years had been insufficient to make his wife understand his character. Her mind was less difficult to develop. She was a woman of mean understanding, little information, and uncertain temper. When she was discontented, she fancied herself nervous. The business of her life was to get her daughters married; its solace was visiting and news.How might you recognize that? It's not necessarily "how big the words are" that tips us off, but, rather, the style and manner by which these ideas are communicated. Sure, you or possibly Bedrockgames would point to the "big adjectives," but I would say it's how these words are constructed together that makes the difference. We could even go back through this piece and replace the "big adjectives" with simpler synonyms, and we could still probably recognize this as literary prose due to how the ideas are communicated through organized structure, style, and tone. Though maybe this is not modern enough of a text? Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn't hold with such nonsense. Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she spent so much of her time crani...
  • 01:54 AM - Aldarc mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    See, ok, Bedrockgames, but, what you're talking about is vocabulary choice. Fair enough. But, Aldarc has insisted, pretty vehemently, all the way along that vocabulary choice doesn't matter. And, you have never contradicted him. So, are you disagreeing with Aldarc? It appears that you are, but, I want to be very sure. It's not about "blurring dualities". It's that your side of the argument isn't quite as clear as you might think. It's confusing. You're saying that vocabulary matters. Aldarc is very strongly saying that vocabulary doesn't. So, which is it? Now, me, I think I agree with you - vocabulary matters. Now, you don't think there's much value in using an extended vocabulary - that you "don't use big adjectives". Fair enough. That's where you and I disagree. I think that most DM's actually do slip into "big adjectives", mostly subconsciously, depending on what game you happen to be playing. But, Aldarc would say that we're both wrong and that "big adjectives" ISN'T what delineates...
  • 01:38 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    See, ok, Bedrockgames, but, what you're talking about is vocabulary choice. Fair enough. But, Aldarc has insisted, pretty vehemently, all the way along that vocabulary choice doesn't matter. And, you have never contradicted him. So, are you disagreeing with Aldarc? It appears that you are, but, I want to be very sure. It's not about "blurring dualities". It's that your side of the argument isn't quite as clear as you might think. It's confusing. You're saying that vocabulary matters. Aldarc is very strongly saying that vocabulary doesn't. So, which is it? Now, me, I think I agree with you - vocabulary matters. Now, you don't think there's much value in using an extended vocabulary - that you "don't use big adjectives". Fair enough. That's where you and I disagree. I think that most DM's actually do slip into "big adjectives", mostly subconsciously, depending on what game you happen to be playing. But, Aldarc would say that we're both wrong and that "big adjectives" ISN'T what delineates...
  • 12:55 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    But, that's the problem Bedrockgames. What constitutes "boxed text style" prose and what is just "conversational"? Most of the time, there isn't a hugely detectable difference. Most boxed text is pretty straight forward description - "the room is such and such big, there are so and so doors, the furnishings are this and that and there's a such and such inhabitant in the room that wants to eat you" is pretty par for the course description. So, what differentiates that from "normal conversation"? To me, I chose the difference as being vocabulary. Word choice, outside of game terms, is what separates "narrative" from "conversation". I'm not sure how else you can differentiate. I guess, that's my question to you then, as the OP, what differentiates "evocative prose" from "conversation"?

Friday, 21st June, 2019

  • 11:43 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Heh. When the premise of the thread is clearly stated, we actually get to discuss the issue rather than spend 15 pages debating what the conversation is actually about. So, for that, thank you Bedrockgames. :D I'm pretty much in the "it depends on the game" camp. I generally find that word choice is going to be necessary as a DM/GM simply because it's virtually impossible to separate running a game from any level of performance. We always choose specific language to fit the game, genre, mood and whatnot, which is, IMO, going to nudge things away from the conversational and towards the prose. This came up in the other thread where words like "wield" were used. That's a deliberate word choice for a fantasy RPG. You'd never use it in an SF RPG, for example. Han Solo wields his blaster? I don't think so. If we're playing a fantasy RPG, we're going to draw on fantasy language, probably subconsciously. If we play a modern RPG, our language is going to change. Note, I'm not referring to game dependent language. That's obviously something else entirely. But, the language we use during the game, that isn't "game language" is going to shift depending on the game we're playing. F...

Wednesday, 12th June, 2019


Tuesday, 11th June, 2019

  • 11:08 PM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game
    The truly frustrating thing about these conversations is we have to spend so much time on hypothetical situations that the actual issue never gets dealt with. I mean when some guy can get staggeringly drunk, stalk a woman, assault security staff and we STILL have to debate whether it’s okay to socially sanction him, it just staggers belief. Tell you what. Go into your workplace and begin loudly telling rape jokes to a group of colleagues. See what happens. Why should this be any different? The hyperbole here is baffling. Comparing being imprisoned for years with not being able to run games at cons? Seriously? That’s the point of equivalency? Bedrockgames, instead of making allusions, why not actually quote the things that trouble you? Because right now all it looks like you’re doing is victim blaming. Even if that’s not your intention, that is what it looks like.
  • 01:41 PM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game
    Heh, irony is a wonderful thing. Bedrockgames is complaining that folks are rushing to judgement and we're negatively impacting this guy's life without learning the facts all the while not bothering to actually spend any time learning the facts that are IN THIS THREAD. That's a whole lot of irony right there. So, folks, the moral of the story is, actually do a bit of due diligence before cramming your foot in your mouth and looking like a ninny.
  • 12:22 PM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post Players 'distressed' by gang-rape role-playing game
    Bedrockgames - did you read the blog posting that was linked? Or did you skip a bunch of pages. Because, I think that you might be missing a LOT of information here.

Monday, 10th June, 2019

  • 04:03 PM - lowkey13 mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    I don’t think anyone’s advocating for no description. So, let's see if we can understand the fundamental disconnect between the people on this thread again, using this post and the prior one by @Bedrockgames as the illustrative examples. Using this post, and the following quote from the prior post- "It is just I don't approach my descriptions like I am author writing a book or a dramatic narrator. I approach them like I would how I'd describe things if I was telling you about something that happened to me that day. I use a lot of colloquial language in my descriptions for example." This really gets to the fundamental issue of why, to quote Cool Hand Luke, there is a failure to communicate. It all starts with the OP. So let's look at the OP again; I will quote it in full, with emphasis added BY ME as I think appropriate- Some recent threads have discussed aspects of GM and player narration in RPGing. Which hase prompted me to start this thread. My answer to the question in the thread title is a firm No. RPGing requires narration: GMs describe situations, and players declare actions for their PCs that respond to those situations. But I don't think the literary quality of that narrat...

Sunday, 9th June, 2019

  • 07:33 PM - Imaro mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Let me ask a question to pemerton, Hawkeye, Bedrockgames and Aldarc. Would you use the same words/language/etc. to describe a remote village in the mountains for say a Ravenloft campaign vs a Four color superhero game like Icons? let's assume good faith in that the Icons village isn't supposed to be haunted or anything tht would make it more Ravenloft-esque.... EDIT: Meant hawkeyefan ...
  • 03:26 PM - Maxperson mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    An automechanic will have a range of vocabulary that "falls outside of normal, everyday conversation," but I don't think that we would credibly accuse them for using the technical jargon of their field as part of their conversation as speaking with "literary language." That would be ridiculous. This is because we can recognize that they are not speaking with any sense of sculpted prose or word play, but with prevalent words of their field. But neither are those mechanics speaking conversational English, which is what Bedrockgames says he wants.
  • 08:03 AM - Hussar mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    ...ges on the technical definition of “few” or will you simply accept my use?) of the words used are uncommon. That doesn’t make them unknown. So I’m not going to accept this “10% of the description was useless” because that’s just silly. Honestly....D&D players are gonna balk at the word “wield”? Or “gaunt”? Come on. Sorry, you're right, they aren't unknown. But, my point being, they aren't what you'd use in conversation either. Would you actually use the words "wield" or "gaunt" in a conversation? "A gaunt man wielding a gun robbed a liquor store" is not something you will ever hear in a conversation. You certainly might hear "A thin man armed with a gun" or "carrying a gun", but "wielding"? That's not going to be used. The way I'm seeing it, we've got a spectrum with high art prose on one end (think Tolkien, high Gygaxian, H. P. Lovecraft - if we want to use genre literature) and what you'd hear in a conversation or in the news on the other. As far as I can tell, Bedrockgames is arguing for a level of prose where "an orc with a sword enters the room" is about as much description as he wants. You gave a Githyanki description that is much further along the scale, as did I with the description of the Vengaurak. As far as pemerton goes, I really have no idea where on the scale he's coming down on since he's playing arpeggios up and down the scale so long as he can keep pretending that there is any real disagreement going on. So, no, it's not "10% of the description was useless". Sorry, I never meant that as the take away. Not at all. It's that the presence of that 10% slides the description away from the "pure conversation" end of the scale and further (and, really, where it's 10% of the words, pretty far actually) down towards the "high art" end of the scale.
  • 05:41 AM - pemerton mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    But I’m beginning to see why we’re all having a hard time coming to a consensus....it’s because we actually seem to have one, it’s just that what I see as pretty basic communication, you’re viewing as carefully wrought wordplay.I don't agree that there's a consensus: I can't really tell what Maxperson thinks, but Imaro and Hussar have made claims about the need for entertaining/evocative narration that I think clearly contradict the position I asserted in the OP. But one complicating fact pertains to vocabularly: eg I wouldn't regard cadaverous as a word to describe a Githyanki as especially remarkable or a-conversational, but Hussar probably would, and maybe Bedrockgames also. What counts as every day vocabularly among a group of RPGers is pretty highly variable and contingent on a range of factors (social background/status, educational levels, occupation, etc). I'm a humanities/social sciene academic (philosophy and law) and many of the people I talk to on a regular basis (ie the people I work with, my students, etc) are lilkewise, or are aspiring to be. So I think my every day vocaublary is probably richer than the New York Times. This is why I have brought it back to what are we aiming for? What counts as success, as good RPGing? What should a GM focus on? And I'm saying situation - framing, action, consequence - not beauty or evocation in narration. Whereas those other posters disagree.

Saturday, 8th June, 2019

  • 07:54 AM - pemerton mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Equivocation requires intent. It's an attempt to conceal the truth, which requires the intent to conceal the truth, or to avoid committing, which requires the intent to avoid committing. There's no way around it. A wrong conclusion is just a wrong conclusion without other intent to change things.As I posted upthread, I don't know what your field is. I don't know how many logic or philosophy seminars you have attended. But the standard word used to describe a fallacious or sophistic argument that superficially appears valid, but in fact is not valid because a key term carries different meanings in different sentences of the argument, is equivocation. And the cognate verb is equivocate. That is what Bedrockgames and Aldarc are talking about. The fact that you don't notice that you're doing it doesn't make your argument any more valid.

Friday, 7th June, 2019

  • 04:58 PM - Aldarc mentioned Bedrockgames in post Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?
    Soooo, the ebb and flow of conversation isn't "moving the goalposts."Why would it be? What particular post would it be moving? I haven't, either, but that doesn't prevent you and others here of falsely accusing me of equivocation. Aaaaaand, not. I also have not used ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing. Keep up the talking point, though. If you use it enough, you might just get someone to believe your false accusations. Bedrockgames already demonstrated quite convincingly how you were equivocating with your terms at least 50 pages back. You're just upset because you got caught doing it and others in this thread likewise haven't been fooled by the word games you like to use to win arguments. There have even been a number of people who are arguing in favor of TTRPGs as a literary endeavor who have likewise called you out on it. Take the "L" and move on.


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Monday, 24th June, 2019

  • 11:48 PM - Hussar quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I am reacting to a situation, not narrating a scene. There is a HUGE difference Umm, where did the situation come from? Who initiated the situation? Who set the location, the opponents (or allies or whatever is being reacted to)? Now, there are games where the answer to that might be "anyone at the table", but, outside of those games, by and large, it's the GM/DM who is setting the stage so to speak. Sure, the PC's open the door, but, it's the DM who describes what's in the room. And, at that point, what are you reacting to? The opening of a door? That's a pretty fine line distinction. PC's are camping for the night in a D&D game. You roll a random encounter. At that point, you have to narrate the set up, it's unavoidable. Like billd91 said, the distinction is formal vs informal style. But, you're still narrating no matter what you do.
  • 07:59 PM - lowkey13 quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    It is about one style predominating. I am not anti-intellectual but I am anti-elitism, especially when gamers who don't talk like they came from the suburbs end up feeling out of place in the hobby (which I've seen many times firsthand). And while yes, you are right, we should all be entitled to our preferences, and there is nothing wrong with the GM narrating or talking more in a prose style....everything has downsides and excesses worth bringing up. Intellectual snobbery is a thing. And it does creep into the hobby a lot. I hear what you're saying, and I understand your point; that said, you should consider the following two issues in tandem: 1. When you say you are "anti-elitism" (as opposed to anti-intellectual?), this is similar to a battle that many of us fought when we were young. Quite frankly, I am perfectly happy to have read my books and been all nerdy; there is something distinctly disturbing, to me, to see that the very thing that attracted me to the hobby to begin with (a haven for ...
  • 06:04 PM - lowkey13 quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I don't think speaking in natural conversational style is deliberate in the way speaking in a narrator voice is deliberate. This just seems like we are blurring distinctions in order to make them ultimately the same (back to 'everything is literature'). Well, maybe. But notice how you and others describe the "not your style." Previously, it was described as funny voices. Now, it's- I guess my concern with this approach, at a fundamental level, is it leads to setting a bar where only people who talk like 'nerds' can sit in the GM chair, or even play. It is actually one of the big hurdles to getting people interested in the game that I encounter when talking to people outside of gaming. We tend to interpret intellect by how 'well spoken' a GM is and by their vocabulary. By conversational I don't mean blue collar level speech. It can include the of course. To me part of conversational speaking is talking in your natural voice and without trying to put on airs or trying to emulate written text...
  • 03:14 PM - Hussar quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I don't think speaking in natural conversational style is deliberate in the way speaking in a narrator voice is deliberate. This just seems like we are blurring distinctions in order to make them ultimately the same (back to 'everything is literature'). Well, kinda sorta. Look at that description of the Dursley's above. That's adopting a very specific "voice". It's a sing songy story telling voice because the story is written for 10 year olds. It is a very deliberate choice. Your choice of a conversational tone is deliberate since you don't like a more prose style pattern. But, make no mistake, you are still narrating the scene. There's no way to play an RPG without someone narrating the scene. Whether it's "rubbish is scattered around what was once a fine guest bedroom" or "it's a run-down bedroom with rubbish scattered about.", those are deliberate choices and both of those choices are setting the scene for the players. The range isn't narrative vs conversational, it's prose v...

Sunday, 23rd June, 2019

  • 03:48 AM - Hussar quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Pacing is something I don't even care about as a GM. I should say, dramatic pacing. I don't care for doing dramatic pacing. Obviously if everyone is twiddling their thumbs, I will try to keep the game moving. But I don't worry about pacing in terms of the flow of combat (i.e. getting the right level of rising action and a sense of things building). If the players shank the villain when he turns to open a desk drawer, and that legitimately gives them the win, then I go with it, even if it is the first five minutes of the adventure. This is something I've had players thank me for and comment on. Not all players like it. But there is something refreshing about adjudicating in a way that lets the dice fall where they may and doesn't account for concerns like 'is it too early for this boss to be defeated or this battle to be won'. Ah, now, there, I think is one of the bigger divides that's going on. For me, while dramatic pacing is one thing (I'll let them shank the villain too), but, in general gam...

Saturday, 22nd June, 2019

  • 03:24 PM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Everyone is in control of their own posts. No one can make you post uncivilly. I see more than one poster being uncivil. Yeah but one person can certainly be a catalyst. And that's the last I'll say on it.
  • 04:16 AM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Man, for the topic, this getting way too heated I think it was pretty civil until one particular poster showed up and I suspect that's been his purpose since joining the discussion.
  • 02:38 AM - Saelorn quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Now maybe you prefer not to give such obvious hints. And that is fine. But I can't fault a GM who does (or a player who responds accordingly).I will fault that GM. That's a terrible GM, by my standards. Such behavior is a clear violation of the impartiality which a GM is expected to uphold. I don't want to start this debate, again, right before the weekend. It's been done to death.
  • 01:57 AM - Saelorn quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    This seems pretty harsh to me. Policing meta gaming like that just feels extreme. And I don't think it is cheating. Different RPGs state different things about meta gaming. Some don't even mention meta gaming at all.If you're okay with manipulating players by giving them meta-game information that you expect them to act upon, by means of how you describe a scene, then... at least you're being consistent. I can't fault how your logic follows from your premise, regardless of how vehemently I disagree with that premise. Personally, I'm not going to meta-game, and I'm not going to allow meta-gamers at my table. If we're playing a role-playing game, then I'm going to insist on role-playing, because that's the point.
  • 12:55 AM - dragoner quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    That has been one of the difficulties of finding clarity in the conversation. It is basically shorthand for speaking in 'boxed text' or 'prose' style. Heh I don't know what speaking in "boxed text" means either, but I looked up "Prose" in Merriam-Webster: 2: to write or speak in a dull or ordinary manner https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prose Not sure if that sounds like a good thing.

Friday, 21st June, 2019

  • 11:53 PM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    My style isn't neutral. It just accepts peoples communication styles and keeps things conversational. I may have one player who really hams up the acting, another who is much more reserved and descriptive, another who talks much more casually and uses a lot of slang. But one feature of my style is I avoid artificial sounding descriptions. I try to stick to plain English, and I give my players plenty of room to interject. IN short I avoid sounding like I am reading something pre-planned. I am speaking in the moment and am reactive to what the players do. Pemerton was the one with the purely neutral play style. In my style, I just try to avoid stuff that is railroad like or feels like the GM has a story to tell, and I avoid prose like descriptions. I just talk like I always do. In terms of speaking styles and GMs, I simply don't care how professorial a person sounds. I'd rather play with someone who talks like a biker but has a good sense of humor than someone who has a huge vocabulary and prose-li...
  • 11:28 PM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    Sure it is. You don't think we can bridge communication divides by being more empathetic and making more of an effort to understand one another and accept different communication styles? I don't know, for this is basically how I always conduct myself. I don't fault a GM for speaking in a blue-collar Boston accent using blue collar Boston vernacular for example (or any other style of talking I might encounter around me). My point is, a lot of what we are talking about is really gamesters speaking college level nerd speak. I don't think that is necessary. Especially in a hobby. It isn't the corporate world. The stakes are pretty low here. Might as well allow for the most communication styles possible. Also I've just learned from experience that type of college level communication, often just masks a lack of substantive ideas anyways. Can you post an example of how your games go? This I think is what's missing from the thread. We have multiple examples of the narrative style (whether you use it alo...
  • 10:50 PM - Saelorn quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    My point is, a lot of what we are talking about is really gamesters speaking college level nerd speak.AKA, High Gygaxian
  • 10:43 PM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I am not saying it doesn’t matter, I am saying it shouldn’t matter. And what references people get also shouldn’t matter. Most of the hobby is centered around suburban nerd culture and communication style. I think prioritizing/favoring that way if communicating limits the hobby. I just don't think this is a realistic way of looking at communication period. how we say things, word choice, etc are an intrinsic part of communication for good or bad.
  • 02:43 PM - Imaro quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I guess my concern with this approach, at a fundamental level, is it leads to setting a bar where only people who talk like 'nerds' can sit in the GM chair, or even play. It is actually one of the big hurdles to getting people interested in the game that I encounter when talking to people outside of gaming. We tend to interpret intellect by how 'well spoken' a GM is and by their vocabulary. I would rather see a GM speaking comfortably in their natural voice, largely for this reason. I also think there is a degree of empathy lacking when we all adopt the 'how you say something is just as important as what you say'. I've noticed this more and more over the years where people don't seem to feel any need to try to understand what a person is really trying to say and instead focus on the literalness of how they say it. No it doesnt Now let's clarify something first... I dont like or enjoy narrative prose in my game is a different and much more reasonable argument than... How I present something doe...
  • 01:42 PM - Maxperson quoted Bedrockgames in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    I grew up in a very, very religious community. I think delusional is a strong word but I do think Celebrim is hitting on something that is real. There does seem to be a religious like impulse in the chasing of perfection here. And there is an ultimate evil that we are trying to purge (even when, as you yourself point out, it isn't fully evil itself, it is just imperfect---referring to your Tolkien example). And it does seem like the moment people disagree they start getting viewed as if they are the evil itself as well. Yep. As soon as I pointed out that Hussar is jumping at shadows, he demonized me and then left the thread to get away from "Satan."

Wednesday, 19th June, 2019

  • 12:29 PM - Jacob Lewis quoted Bedrockgames in post GM DESCRIPTION: NARRATION OR CONVERSATION?
    I am curious what other posters think about how a GM should sound when describing things to players. How a GM should sound? I think players might have a preference, and GMs have an individual style, but you know we get into all sorts of trouble when anyone starts telling others how they should or should not do anything.

Tuesday, 18th June, 2019

  • 08:20 PM - Celebrim quoted Bedrockgames in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    Okay but this is subjective. This isn't objective categorization. What you consider authoring, I consider adjudication. I think that there probably is an objective difference. I could easily write a computer program to adjudicate, in the same way you could write a program to play chess and determine what was or wasn't a valid move. But I don't think I could so easily write a computer program to author. And if I could write a program which engaged in authoring, it would be at least quantitatively different than one that could adjudicate. Present cRPGs are very good at adjudication, but authoring in the sense that Umbran means it is beyond our understanding. We can attempt to simulate authoring through what is called procedural generation of content, but the very fact that it is procedural and therefore bounded, suggests that even this is more like adjudication than what Umbran is calling authoring. Adjudication seems to relate to some sort of finite set. While authoring seems to be boun...
  • 07:38 PM - Umbran quoted Bedrockgames in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    We just see things differently then. The GM deciding what happens when the players do something in the world, I file that under adjudication. I think we just have fundamentally different ways of thinking about play Umbran. I don't think there's anything fundamental, here - I'm talking more about categorizing, and setting expectations. I just think about it, and realize there are parts of play where the GM is acting more like a judge/referee, and parts of play where the GM is acting more like an author. The former I'd call adjudication, the latter, not. There's connotations to "adjudication" that I don't think apply to the authoring moments, and failing the expectations is not good for the table (broadly, speaking).
  • 05:41 PM - Flexor the Mighty! quoted Bedrockgames in post Why are we okay with violence in RPGs?
    I never said that. Everyone is different Umbrian. Not crapping on social mechanics. But you don’t need them to tokeplay Is tokeplay how they do it in Mass since its been legalized?


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