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  1. I shoot for not overwhelmingly specific partly...

    I shoot for not overwhelmingly specific partly because it could differ a lot It's a method for inspiring people without over-riding their own inclinations.

    someone just shared a homebrew...
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    Ah that works and is a compromise removing my...

    Ah that works and is a compromise removing my criticism.
  3. Yeh I couldn't understand how there was a failure...

    Yeh I couldn't understand how there was a failure to communicate... which is evidence of a failure to communicate too LOL
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    Parrying an attack against ones ally for that...

    Parrying an attack against ones ally for that shield user might be... a somewhat different thought. You trade out your shield bonus to improve an allies armor class not your own... you no longer get...
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    Hmmm.. I was just thinking that a reaction is...

    Hmmm.. I was just thinking that a reaction is such a commodity using it when the enemy might not even hit would feel lame.
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    I do like that quite a bit... I have been...

    I do like that quite a bit... I have been thinking for quite a while that a lot of fiction has heros who do little tidbits that might be seen as overlapping on the specialists. Many times it includes...
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    OK I will channel my much younger self. Note I...

    OK I will channel my much younger self. Note I now disagree with that guy on almost every point for various reasons. hmmm maybe some are still influencing my thinking



    Hit points massively...
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    That might be ok if something is rare enough it...

    That might be ok if something is rare enough it isn't something to count on or worry too much over ... however it REALLY REALLY seems strange a mage is immune to the interference of the Cavalier...
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    There is a fun issue... your intimidation or even...

    There is a fun issue... your intimidation or even active interference against nearby enemies cannot will not interfere with casters they are immune.
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    My gameworld has a hmmmmm archetype? That...

    My gameworld has a hmmmmm archetype? That sometimes were called justiciars originally like police back in the ancient times but many of them became more like personal guards in modern times. Green...
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    I kind of like that too it rather has the...

    I kind of like that too it rather has the intimidation angle going on... You are distracting them because they think you might be coming back for more.
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    Yes it certain seems to have some how many of...

    Yes it certain seems to have some how many of what you mention above are in the Players Handbook vs Xanathars (which I had not investigated)

    I think ones that require a reaction are pretty darn...
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    We had tons of outdoor adventures back in the day...

    We had tons of outdoor adventures back in the day I still do including many open arenas and battlefields whose only walls were trees ...heck I think dungeons were actually pretty nonsensical to many...
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    The exception proves the rule... they might also...

    The exception proves the rule... they might also ignore your attacks and run past so they can get at the more brains behind you not because you are too tough but because more meat is back there.

    ...
  15. The above is pointing out how recognizing roles...

    The above is pointing out how recognizing roles as specializations of PCs is not a new thing

    I think if you make a diverse set of tactical choices they will undoubtedly interact with roles. 5e...
  16. Show me how show me. An ability might support...

    Show me how show me.

    An ability might support one role when used one way and another role when used another way... does that mean it somehow doesn't support roles?
  17. Ah I was kind of hoping you had some inspiration...

    Ah I was kind of hoping you had some inspiration on that which I lacked to be honest.
  18. You are being obtuse I told you that you could...

    You are being obtuse I told you that you could swap out the adjective for its opposite and the sentence and idea still sounds interesting why would you have ever assumed I meant the adjective was ?...
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    Your being very hard to hit is not some invisible...

    Your being very hard to hit is not some invisible property If they do not behave differently very quickly then the DM is roleplaying them very badly...

    The guy who looks like he might be leaving...
  20. @dave2008...

    @dave2008 creating non-combat tactical role support might be something brand new to D&D even. Though I have heard of the face and similar ideas I do not remember them ever being rich with tactical...
  21. Thumbs up for being very on topic ;)

    Thumbs up for being very on topic ;)
  22. Adjectives cannot stand alone they describe the...

    Adjectives cannot stand alone they describe the other and I pointed out you could in theory also create a non-combat tactical module which might be very intriguing to be honest.
  23. And the early edition had fighters become minion...

    And the early edition had fighters become minion sweepers too as they levelled (if the DM used them zero levels it could in theory make fighters feel pretty badass)
  24. The party was according to Arneson originally...

    The party was according to Arneson originally inspired by the US fireteam of 4 soldiers. With classes approximately reflecting its composition/roles.
  25. Adjective is battlefield indicating type and noun...

    Adjective is battlefield indicating type and noun is role ... could call it combat role too.

    ( though in theory you could actually have a non-combat tactical expansion)
  26. Not everything is a comparison and 4e will not...

    Not everything is a comparison and 4e will not always be better ;) - it cannot be ubiquitous like it was in chainmail (nor as absolute) so giving it other subtle control like the control I added...
  27. Sure and ones best designs are likely something...

    Sure and ones best designs are likely something you buy into yourself.

    I also think battlefield role support is a component of tactical game play. 5e is not very flush with that. So a module that...
  28. It took an expansion to get what looks like a...

    It took an expansion to get what looks like a functional defender... unless I am missing something
  29. Fireball and lightning were iconic wizard magic...

    Fireball and lightning were iconic wizard magic from Chainmail they had indirect control because they were ubiquitous and as large area of not-ally friendly effects influences enemy behavior to...
  30. It was already mentioned something other than...

    It was already mentioned something other than boring bags of hit points monsters consider that your starting point ... then one needs abilities which interact with those on the player side and that...
  31. I prefer a foundation and some assumptions in the...

    I prefer a foundation and some assumptions in the foundation make changing it pretty difficult. For instance 4e assumed heros were most likely gradually approaching something akin to demigod status...
  32. you could definitely get a goal through the hoops...

    you could definitely get a goal through the hoops right into left field over that issue...
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    Here is a lesson in playing a defender if you are...

    Here is a lesson in playing a defender if you are too hard to hit and ultimate on saving throws ie defenses it is a very good way NOT to be an effective defender in 4e because the DM will have next...
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    Because swordmages are so intrinsically superior,...

    Because swordmages are so intrinsically superior, snicker

    They simply must be built as level 17
  35. I did make a more controllerish lightning bolt up...

    I did make a more controllerish lightning bolt up thread
  36. Not what I was saying I was saying so there is...

    Not what I was saying I was saying so there is that. You wanted to know why I thought it would be difficult and that was an element I would like to see but also an example of how such an element...
  37. Did that way back in 1e days but I am lazier...

    Did that way back in 1e days but I am lazier now... reflavor seemed sufficient
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    LOL you took facing more literally than I meant...

    LOL you took facing more literally than I meant it... but I suppose I could have said impacting its utterly appropriate for monsters to have one set of rules and the monsters another. your hyperbole...
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    Looks for place in the books saying monster and...

    Looks for place in the books saying monster and player facing rules are identical... then turns to 3rd edition ahah.
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    honestly I only remember their premise ... they...

    honestly I only remember their premise ... they may have grabbed random encounter difficulties for all I know so a few bad rolls in a row on the dms side and your group is eaten by a series of...
  41. Bloodied is a pacing mechanism which changes and...

    Bloodied is a pacing mechanism which changes and swaps out tactical choices. (Does that make bloodied tactical even though it itself isn't usually a choice I think so - see below for ways it becomes...
  42. One can use all the option rich elements not to...

    One can use all the option rich elements not to optimize for potency or balance but for flavor which is why I liked even Hybrids in 4e.
    5e multi-classing doesn't live up to my expectations for...
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    There was a player designed expansion for 4e I...

    There was a player designed expansion for 4e I think it was designed to show how the rules were flexible enough that without change you can make 4e as deadly as you wanted I think it was called 4th...
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    That is how we interpreted it. From zero to...

    That is how we interpreted it. From zero to optionally negative 3 nobody had to worry about you if you managed to drop negative farther than that it was a dying process although easily stopped.

    We...
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    Yes 3 to 5 is reasonable... though I have known...

    Yes 3 to 5 is reasonable... though I have known many editions where the designers thought X was the target and players did 1 significant battle with only a few scrapes otherwise besides that so I it...
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    I would express it as there was less random...

    I would express it as there was less random fluctuation and you are more aware of how how a given challenge will resolve... its not "trying hard" its predictably hard... less oops more planned on the...
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    Flamestrike Noting you like Crown Paladin ;)

    Flamestrike

    Noting you like Crown Paladin ;)
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    The one for range and the other for adjacent OK...

    The one for range and the other for adjacent OK seeing how that works

    The use of ones reaction on opportunity attacks is less the Warlords schtick than the fighters so its less of a problem for...
  49. Maybe, but I do think there are advantages to...

    Maybe, but I do think there are advantages to some of the 3e nods in 5e which indicate actual sympathy for positive elements in that earlier system.
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    Is that a good use of reaction ... if it had...

    Is that a good use of reaction ... if it had range that would feel more Warlord like actually Mearles has mentioned himself we need a Warlordy Fighting Style though he didnt give an example.

    I saw...
  51. Question is does the design team actually...

    Question is does the design team actually understand the material well enough to change it or evoke what was liked about the earlier edition and currently we keep getting all the signs of no not...
  52. Don't think your snark gets unappreciated...

    Don't think your snark gets unappreciated...
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    I think well done homebrew is on the table

    I think well done homebrew is on the table
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    Could you elaborate a Halfling who just wants to...

    Could you elaborate a Halfling who just wants to keep his friends safe sounds familiar
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    The battlemaster had potentially but only gives...

    The battlemaster had potentially but only gives an innadequate not quite. Mearles half done idea could actually have the seeds for a functional tactical warlord.
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    Cavalier is evidently one of the things I have...

    Cavalier is evidently one of the things I have been overlooking... protection style is one of those sounds nice but eats too much by taking your reaction against an attack that you do not even know...
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    I flagged 5e for a reason and No a D&D character ...

    I flagged 5e for a reason and No a D&D character ;)



    I would like them to be able to protect progressively better



    No particular race but I like humans generally and martial classes.......
  58. And some are kind of innadequate like how second...

    And some are kind of innadequate like how second wind is very nearly un-used in 4e due to action economy and which is even more tied down in 5e. But it gets a variant?

    Thought i would double down...
  59. That right there feels altogether too true though...

    That right there feels altogether too true though at the same time I wonder how that could happen
  60. I think people do not always get how over all...

    I think people do not always get how over all structure contributes

    It kind of relates to 5e designers take on healing surges mentioned earlier.
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    Show me how to build a defender....

    I am currently not happy with the options I have found so far. I might be missing something
  62. Insert DM in the equation who doesn't have that...

    Insert DM in the equation who doesn't have that 4e as a resource and you have a need for the obvious part of a tactical module.

    The thing is character abilities need to interact interestingly...
  63. I find the accusation that people want it to be...

    I find the accusation that people want it to be exactly the same is ummm insert something not nice.

    I mean really why not actually try to be better? 4e had some experiments later in the edition...
  64. That was a 192 page book... sounds pretty...

    That was a 192 page book... sounds pretty extensive.
  65. One of the appeals of the previous edition was it...

    One of the appeals of the previous edition was it was very easy to DM...
  66. And some are kind of innadequate like how second...

    And some are kind of innadequate like how second wind is very nearly un-used in 4e due to action economy and which is even more tied down in 5e. But it gets a variant?
  67. You named one right there dude... do you really...

    You named one right there dude... do you really think you can go and change virtually every monster an easy fix to the game?
  68. Because increasing the tactical element of play...

    Because increasing the tactical element of play interleaves with every class used and any combat spell and every monster in use. How many bits and pieces do you have to interact with just for one...
  69. So whatever happened to the Tactics Variant/Module or Whatever

    Quite honestly it seems like it would be prohibitively difficult to add on like a patch in the first place so I wasn't really expecting to see it. Just adding in the bloodied condition for its...
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    Except they needed doorways and extra rows of...

    Except they needed doorways and extra rows of pikeman to do anything at all apparently AD&D was my first experience and I didnt see in home games or conventions much different sizes of party than I...
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    Row of pikeman... LOL you must have been gaming...

    Row of pikeman... LOL you must have been gaming with entirely different people than me.. never saw once in my gaming career a row of pikeman in the party that sounds so heroic like the fighters are...
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    Not from the DM himself which is what we were...

    Not from the DM himself which is what we were discussing... a DM finding themselves now able to cut loose instead of faking it. This meant many 4e DMs were reporting more player kills than they ever...
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    Too expensive IMHO actually and Fighters have...

    Too expensive IMHO actually and Fighters have another resource their attacks... spend one of your attacks scanning your enemies for an opening you may use Int/Cha or Wisdom (or appropriate skill such...
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    I added something to the fighter in both 4e and...

    I added something to the fighter in both 4e and 5e that allows any mental attribute to be used as your initiative stat (call it battle ready).

    I would like tactical maneuvers for the Battlemaster...
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    You mean the bonus if they are attacking the same...

    You mean the bonus if they are attacking the same monster as you?
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    Nods there is definitely that... but there is...

    Nods there is definitely that... but there is also how tactical you are willing to play the adversaries pulling your punches by having enemies play more than a bit dumb was pretty common back in the...
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    Level appropriate is a bad word LOL

    Level appropriate is a bad word LOL
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    I suppose in 5e style false opening and taunt...

    I suppose in 5e style false opening and taunt should be distinct one based on str/dex and the other based on cha
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    Always remember never bother saving the bar maid...

    Always remember never bother saving the bar maid just the princess because greed is good
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    Sure but dont you figure it actually didn't...

    Sure but dont you figure it actually didn't require as much skill or art because EL delivered..
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    I have heard DMs say in 4th they can go full...

    I have heard DMs say in 4th they can go full out.... also a level +4 encounter is an acceptable encounter in 4e. Th DM has so much control over how dangerous things are by RAW the comparisons fail
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    Rubs off was also used in the same sentence if...

    Rubs off was also used in the same sentence if you are going there
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    Noteworthy difference ... you opt in to the extra...

    Noteworthy difference ... you opt in to the extra hd based healing
  84. I love Mikes work even the times I disagreed with...

    I love Mikes work even the times I disagreed with details the fresh eyes on the game and how it can invoke heroic archetypal characters is right up my alley
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    Sounds like some very similar rule idea.

    Sounds like some very similar rule idea.
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    Healing Surges arent Second Wind.

    Healing Surges the 5e variant rule should be called Second Wind.
    Ok not a big deal right? nothing to get teary or sniffles over however once you notice that it implements something rarely ever...
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    Offhand Commands is going to be a build choice...

    Offhand Commands is going to be a build choice feature or actually just a class feature that has no impact unless you are a beastmaster if you have 1 hand free you may more adeptly command your beast...
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    How about recommended I mean trust your players...

    How about recommended I mean trust your players to be thematic and give them an extra if you want
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    My pedantic complaints are really old and while I...

    My pedantic complaints are really old and while I can express them I am over the majority of them...
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    I might have to build that group as a D&D party

    I might have to build that group as a D&D party
  91. Has anyone investigated this.... the idea of...

    Has anyone investigated this.... the idea of "courtly intrigues" has me wondering about whether it might be a flavor of Martial Practices.
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    There are very few elements in 4e that have...

    There are very few elements in 4e that have flavor so far knocked down that you cannot shake them up. Dispel Magic and Martial Practices vs Rituals are ones so far I have seen brought up. MP and R...
  93. Yay give me some swordmage please

    Yay give me some swordmage please
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    It isny exactly a house rule but my daughter...

    It isny exactly a house rule but my daughter liked the option of turning potential enemies into allies
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    The power if it is working on top of the...

    The power if it is working on top of the Battlemaster needs to be different. Come and get it for 5e.Battlemaster
  96. Completely a better thread

    Completely a better thread
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    Oh I quite agree about using the secondary as...

    Oh I quite agree about using the secondary as build / design dependent - remember the Fighter is the ultimate tough guy, in 4e they most definitely had builds that made CON their secondary (featured...
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    Or a few years back 6 texas rangers hiyo hiyo...

    Or a few years back 6 texas rangers hiyo hiyo rode in the sun (The lone ranger) or Walker Texas Ranger. But no I think the Fantasy Ranger Aragorn is likely to be much more broadly associated even...
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    Did I mention I think this has a lot of cool...

    Did I mention I think this has a lot of cool stuff in it... regardless of whether it is "the ranger to me"
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    Come and Get it Is not a Lazylord maneuver unless...

    Come and Get it Is not a Lazylord maneuver unless he can make an ally into the bait and trap so it remains a secondary for the style of character likely to use it, and might be a tertiary for the...
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