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    Like a lot of things AD&D, it was pretty...

    Like a lot of things AD&D, it was pretty schizophrenic.

    For example, while you can talk about xp for "tricking" monsters being in the 1e DMG, you also have the training rules. A fighter that...
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    How does unreliable = lunacy? Lots and LOTS of...

    How does unreliable = lunacy?

    Lots and LOTS of people are unreliable. That doesn't make them crazy. I've been accused several times here of going to extremes, but, all I've said is that a CN...
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    Honestly, that's how I view it. Lanefan's...

    Honestly, that's how I view it. Lanefan's "breaking in period" makes sense to me.



    Yes, I would view it that way. Chaotic good gets the pass because, well, being good, the character still...
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    I disagree. If your character is consistent,...

    I disagree. If your character is consistent, reliable, dependable and never impulsive, in what way is that character chaotic? What about any of those descriptors would lead an observer to the...
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    Freedom and personal freedom are not the same...

    Freedom and personal freedom are not the same thing. I was speaking of acting on whims. Whims, by definition, are illogical and often unreliable. If you never actually act on whims, you aren't...
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    I disagree. Observable behaviour is the only...

    I disagree. Observable behaviour is the only determinant of alignment. Intention means nothing in an objective alignment system.

    People are evil because the DO evil things. I can think nasty...
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    See, I've never understood this. Like I...

    See, I've never understood this.

    Like I said, sure, in the early levels, say 1-3, I get it. You want to be pretty careful about not biting off more than you can chew. But, after that? Why...
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    Lanefan, I'm not sure I agree with your premise. ...

    Lanefan, I'm not sure I agree with your premise. AD&D, while lethal at low levels, was not particularly dangerous at higher levels. Granted, save or die effects might have made it more dangerous,...
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    But, if you ALWAYS do what you agree to do, that...

    But, if you ALWAYS do what you agree to do, that makes you lawful. If your whims are to always be trustworthy, then, well, that's not chaotic anymore. That's lawful. While, sure, you can do one or...
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    Well, the whole "follows their whims" right there...

    Well, the whole "follows their whims" right there makes them untrustworthy. Particularly when combined with putting their personal freedom above all else. Basically becomes, "you can't tell me what...
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    I gotta agree with Morrus on the whole CN thing. ...

    I gotta agree with Morrus on the whole CN thing. Thing is, most people, really, are lawful by D&D standards. They follow rules, they work (reasonably well) in groups every day and generally aren't...
  12. Heck, when I played a binder, I looked forward to...

    Heck, when I played a binder, I looked forward to making bad pacts, to the point where I'd just stop rolling and declare that I made bad pacts. It was more fun.
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    Great stuff as always. Thanks for this. Still a...

    Great stuff as always. Thanks for this. Still a bit before my time, so, it's interesting to see the early days of the hobby.
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    Shhhh, shhhhh, shhhh, I got pilloried for several...

    Shhhh, shhhhh, shhhh, I got pilloried for several pages for suggesting that north is the top of a map. Quiet, quiet. The map police will come and drag you into the most bizarre, meaningless...
  15. I did rather like the cleric spell spheres. It...

    I did rather like the cleric spell spheres. It made it pretty easy to make very thematic cleric classes.

    I MISS the binder. I would love to play that again but, that's more of a mechanics thing....
  16. But of course youíre not victim blaming at all by...

    But of course youíre not victim blaming at all by implying that the folks here were being dishonest in their reactions. :erm:

    Good grief.

    You have a very strange definition of cruel if itís...
  17. The truly frustrating thing about these...

    The truly frustrating thing about these conversations is we have to spend so much time on hypothetical situations that the actual issue never gets dealt with. I mean when some guy can get...
  18. Just want to say a bit of a my bad. I misread...

    Just want to say a bit of a my bad. I misread part of the blog post about someone trying to gain publicity. My misread. Thanks for correcting me.



    Iím actually a little disappointed that the...
  19. Heh, irony is a wonderful thing. ...

    Heh, irony is a wonderful thing.

    Bedrockgames is complaining that folks are rushing to judgement and we're negatively impacting this guy's life without learning the facts all the while not...
  20. Bedrockgames - did you read the blog posting that...

    Bedrockgames - did you read the blog posting that was linked? Or did you skip a bunch of pages. Because, I think that you might be missing a LOT of information here.
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    Not sure if this can be used or not, but, the 1...

    Not sure if this can be used or not, but, the 1 million square foot island might be useful:

    https://www.deviantart.com/zatnikotel/gallery/69418922/Island-One-Million
  22. Oh, please. 1. What kind of impact is this...

    Oh, please.

    1. What kind of impact is this having on the life of the GM? He can't run games at conventions? Oh, noes, the horrors and despair. Again, if I was at a job and I screwed up on...
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    Ghosts of Saltmarsh Resources

    Figured I'd start a thread here to try to collect as many GoS resources as I could in one place. Here's a little something I whipped up for your players - it's the region around Saltmarsh (I'm using...
  24. No, what you are seeing is folks looking for the...

    No, what you are seeing is folks looking for the "mob mentality" and not seeing any in this case. And other folks defending the GM in question from the hypothetical mob this out to get him.
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    Fantastic idea. ((heads off to unsubscribe...

    Fantastic idea.

    ((heads off to unsubscribe from the thread))
  26. Let's be fair here. How much effort are you...

    Let's be fair here. How much effort are you actually going to expend on a news story where a guy gets booted out of a gaming convention? Sure, they may not have the details exactly right, but, by...
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    But, at that point, why not just eschew all...

    But, at that point, why not just eschew all description? After all, the player has zero idea what a githyanki is, so, Generic Monster X has just as much heft. "You enter a room with monsters"...
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    But, that's the point. All the "literary" work...

    But, that's the point. All the "literary" work has already been done for you so you can shorthand "zombie". But, as soon as you get outside of common genre stuff, you're back to having to describe...
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    Ah, oops. Missed that part. Then fair enough,...

    Ah, oops. Missed that part. Then fair enough, the jargon would be perfectly understandable. Like I said, two baseball fans can slide into incomprehensibility pretty quickly.

    OTOH, though, those...
  30. Hrm, so, exactly how much evidence is needed...

    Hrm, so, exactly how much evidence is needed here? We have one of the players directly contradicting the GM's story. The Con says that it investigated and found evidence of wrong doing as well as...
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    Canaydia. They're from Canaydia. Get it right. ...

    Canaydia. They're from Canaydia. Get it right. :D
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    Having run The World's Largest Dungeon, I would...

    Having run The World's Largest Dungeon, I would love to say that all my descriptions were there first type, but, frankly, I probably mix it up. There's times when the second description comes out. ...
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    The question I guess would be, "why"? Psychic in...

    The question I guess would be, "why"? Psychic in an X-Men game of course would be common, as it would likely be a game defined term. Like "to-hit" or "githyanki" or "humanoid" really. But, where...
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    This is why I don't think we're as far apart as...

    This is why I don't think we're as far apart as it might appear. I look at words like "intricately" and I think "literary" not "conversation" because the words "intricately carved" would almost...
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    Sorry, you're right, they aren't unknown. But,...

    Sorry, you're right, they aren't unknown. But, my point being, they aren't what you'd use in conversation either. Would you actually use the words "wield" or "gaunt" in a conversation?

    "A gaunt...
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    Not really. If you are using language that is...

    Not really. If you are using language that is above and beyond every day speech, then it's not really a conversation anymore. Not when you are specifically CHOOSING those words. Sure, Githyanki is...
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    I would argue that it's "many players that I play...

    I would argue that it's "many players that I play with" than "players".

    And, frankly, taking you at your word, that you use nothing but bog standard colloquial English, unadorned, sounds really...
  38. What are you talking about? I'm talking about...

    What are you talking about? I'm talking about what actually happened. GM at a con went totally off the rails and got fired from being a GM at the con.

    Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.
  39. This needs to be read by everyone and...

    This needs to be read by everyone and disseminated as widely as possible.

    This is 100% how a con should react and deal with this sort of situation. Well done them.
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    But, by the same token BRG, would you be...

    But, by the same token BRG, would you be surprised to see such a description in a module? Would it be terribly unusual? And, would you not at least agree that using a word like "rictus grin" is...
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    Actually, if you don't mind, I'm going to stick...

    Actually, if you don't mind, I'm going to stick with the Githyanki example because it hits pretty much exactly the point I'm trying to make.

    Remember, the basic point is we're comparing...
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    I would call that a literary description. You...

    I would call that a literary description. You are certainly using several words that would almost never appear in conversation - "gaunt" "rictus", "scans about" "wields". I mean, "rictus", as far...
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    Oh, FFS, after all the criticisms of...

    Oh, FFS, after all the criticisms of "equivocation" we have one of the biggest waffles of all. Good grief, pemerton. "Oh, RPG language doesn't aspire to be good enough to be reviewed in the New...
  44. Well, sure. But, I'm fairly sure that if my...

    Well, sure. But, I'm fairly sure that if my screw up at work makes BBC news, then, I'm probably going to be clearing out my desk on Monday. :D

    But, my point was, folks get fired for screwing up....
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    Could be a local dialect thing.

    Could be a local dialect thing.
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    So, we're right back to literary = high art. Ok....

    So, we're right back to literary = high art. Ok. Again, I ONE HUNDRED PERCENT agree with you as does everyone else in this thread.

    Why do you keep trying to present it as something else then?
    ...
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    Well, yes, of course, because any further...

    Well, yes, of course, because any further commentary would be getting away from "conversation" and into "literary" and, well, no one ever wants that level of detail at their table, do they? :erm:
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    Well, I'm not going to presume that a majority of...

    Well, I'm not going to presume that a majority of groups actually used published character sheets, so, umm, I'll stick to the notion that my anecdotes are just as valid as your anecdotes.
  49. Again, how is banning someone from running games...

    Again, how is banning someone from running games at a con "excessive" shaming? Seriously? You screwed up, and you don't get to do that activity anymore at that place. Seems pretty standard to me....
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    Meh. I'll see your annecdote and call with mine....

    Meh. I'll see your annecdote and call with mine. Pretending that your experience is universal is no different than me pretending mine is. I certainly had more than a few players who would simply...
  51. I completely agree. Thank you for saying this...

    I completely agree. Thank you for saying this better than I did.
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    If you used the published character sheets, sure....

    If you used the published character sheets, sure. We never did. We always hand wrote our character sheets. No fancy schmancy TSR sheets for us. :D

    I mean, if everyone already had that number,...
  53. And, really, that's what this comes down to. ...

    And, really, that's what this comes down to. Every time these sorts of things come up, everyone jumps up and down talking about "investigating claims" and various other things that "should be done"....
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    Here's the part you bolded: Ok, now, show...

    Here's the part you bolded:



    Ok, now, show me. How do you describe an orc or a githyanki without any attempt at literary quality.

    I'd say that it's equally important that not only does...
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    I'd say yeah, that's typically the way it was...

    I'd say yeah, that's typically the way it was done. Prior to Thaco, you'd have a matrix on the DM's screen, so, again, you call out your attack number, and the DM consults the matrix to tell you if...
  56. Umm, what? 1. Sex offenders register (which...

    Umm, what?

    1. Sex offenders register (which I have no idea if it exists in England) would only be for those convicted of a crime. So, nope.

    2. Keeping this "quiet" simply allows these...
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    Which would be fine. However, pemerton, your...

    Which would be fine. However, pemerton, your points got buried under fifteen tons of extraneous text that I think most people skipped over.

    And, despite REPEATED requests that you clarify what...
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    Loved BG 1 and 2, so, yeah, gonna jump on this...

    Loved BG 1 and 2, so, yeah, gonna jump on this one I think.
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    Ok, so, you agree that "more of an effort" is...

    Ok, so, you agree that "more of an effort" is needed. Isn't that where the literary starts? If the situation is that the Githyanki are stealing something, well, without any literary effort, it...
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    We always pronounced it thaco, as in rhyming with...

    We always pronounced it thaco, as in rhyming with taco. Why would anyone pronounce a "TH" as anything other than the "TH" sound? Unless you talk talk like Tweetie bird I suppose.
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    Not sure if tacos or my local dispensery would be...

    Not sure if tacos or my local dispensery would be the better option. ((Joke for Canadians))
  62. Which climate would that be? The one where it's...

    Which climate would that be? The one where it's no longer considered acceptable to use your position of authority to inflict mental harm on others and they should just "man up" and take it? Or the...
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    So, your putative conversation is going to be...

    So, your putative conversation is going to be nothing but modern references and not a single bit of "flowery language"? Githyanki are green space aliens, like Romulans only with swords?

    I'm...
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    Hang on. "Astral Sea"? What's that? Where did...

    Hang on. "Astral Sea"? What's that? Where did you get that picture? And, again, just showing me a picture of some green alien isn't exactly telling me anything. And are you honestly saying that...
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    Heh, you joke, but, the point is still there. ...

    Heh, you joke, but, the point is still there.

    Aldarc relied on comparisons - a warhorse to a Lamborghini to make the point. Or comparing the monster to the monster at the end of Men in Black. ...
  66. Yeah, I pretty much have to go with billd91 here....

    Yeah, I pretty much have to go with billd91 here. His explanation leaves a lot more questions than answers, and, frankly, I'm having a pretty hard time believing that a player would be that...
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    Heh, I was a late adopter for 3e. I had more...

    Heh, I was a late adopter for 3e. I had more than enough 2e stuff to keep me going for a long time. I wound up getting into 3e about a year before 3.5 hit, so, that certainly put a damper on my...
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    But this only works because I know what a bomb...

    But this only works because I know what a bomb is. The contextual work is already done.

    Now there is a zifnarb in your building. What do you do?
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    IIRC, they did FR's full Pantheons in 2e and it...

    IIRC, they did FR's full Pantheons in 2e and it was two pretty hefty books. I think I owned both at one time. Someone truly, truly loved clerics who wrote that book. :D Aren't there like a couple...
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    Heh, I'm pretty sure that that thread was a...

    Heh, I'm pretty sure that that thread was a primary genesis for this one. :D
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    I know that it's a bit gauche to quote myself,...

    I know that it's a bit gauche to quote myself, but, I did want to expand on this thought and didn't have time at the time.

    For me, sure, I get the idea if you compare a horse to a Lamborghini. ...
  72. Thread: So...keelboats

    by Hussar
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    BTW, have you folks looked at The Naval Code? ...

    BTW, have you folks looked at The Naval Code?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/5eNavalCampaigns/comments/bjv5av/the_naval_code_resource_hub/

    You really should. It's pretty well done.
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    That is a horrible pun. :p

    That is a horrible pun. :p
  74. Replies
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    Does anyone really think that comparing a horse...

    Does anyone really think that comparing a horse to a sports car is going to evoke emotions or buy in to the situation?
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    But, you say it right there - even in games like...

    But, you say it right there - even in games like Fate, you aren't creating context through conversation. Your Aspects aren't simply general conversational points, at least, not if you're doing it...
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    Now there's something we agree on. :D The...

    Now there's something we agree on. :D



    The problem is, while you are having this discussion about using different terms from different media, that's never actually been the point. Who cares...
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    I would say that world building is very much part...

    I would say that world building is very much part of the literary creation process. In that you cannot really have literature without world building, or at the very least, setting creation. Yes,...
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    Heh, "I hit the ogre with the barbarian" was a...

    Heh, "I hit the ogre with the barbarian" was a pretty common comment around our table.
  79. To be fair, Ghosts of Salmarsh does actually have...

    To be fair, Ghosts of Salmarsh does actually have a considerable amount of crunch. There's a pretty hefty section on aquatic monsters and the rules for naval combat and running ships is pretty solid...
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    Heh, thing is, I love Howard. Read it a bunch of...

    Heh, thing is, I love Howard. Read it a bunch of times. But, literature, as in the sense that pemerton is meaning it? Not even close. Sorry, but, Conan is not literature. Note, that Star Wars...
  81. It is somewhat encouraging that this was dealt...

    It is somewhat encouraging that this was dealt with quickly and publicly. I have a sneaking suspicion that in the not too distant past, this sort of thing would be brushed off as "boys being boys"...
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    Heh, I think I'll drop this in the pond and see...

    Heh, I think I'll drop this in the pond and see where it ripples. :p

    I've been cogitating the whole "literary" thing and I think I had a bit of an epiphany. It goes back to my example of the...
  83. Thread: So...keelboats

    by Hussar
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    If you're looking for ship battlemaps, here's a...

    If you're looking for ship battlemaps, here's a bunch:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/5eNavalCampaigns/comments/bhg6o7/ship_battle_map_megapost/

    And a super excellent tutorial for building ships in...
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    Heh. I know I've been a pretty vocal critic over...

    Heh. I know I've been a pretty vocal critic over teh years. But, honestly, I really am gung ho for this. It will basically take away every bitch I've had about FG. What am I going to complain...
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    Probably didn't want to provide free advertising...

    Probably didn't want to provide free advertising for a competing game.
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    But, you said it yourself. Things like Twitch...

    But, you said it yourself. Things like Twitch streams and whatnot DO build communities. Very, very large communities by the looks of it. Or places like En World where you have very large...
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    Yeah, I have to agree with this. Without "that...

    Yeah, I have to agree with this. Without "that person organizing things", pretty much any group activity never gets off the ground. And, really, while it's often the DM/GM who does this, it isn't...
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    Retail obviously is having all sorts of issues,...

    Retail obviously is having all sorts of issues, and it's hardly limited to game retailers.

    I guess my question is, is this a bad thing? That might be cold and cruel, but, at the end of the day,...
  89. Huh, I think this might help you out for maps. ...

    Huh, I think this might help you out for maps.

    https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/194897/Heroic-Maps--Pirate-Islands-Isle-of-Bones?cPath=10143_24644

    Looks about right I think.
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    This thread contains a poll. If you choose nothing but powers that are...

    If you choose nothing but powers that are basically process sim - click the power and an effect occurs, you might as well be playing 3e. That's excising a LOT of how 4e worked. Particularly the...
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    This thread contains a poll. I'm a huge fan of X-Com. This wouldn't work at...

    I'm a huge fan of X-Com. This wouldn't work at all for a 4e game. X-com doesn't have any "do-over" type mechanics. None. You can't turn a hit into a miss, you can't turn damage into non-damage,...
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    This thread contains a poll. Nope, never heard of them. Not surprising, I'm...

    Nope, never heard of them. Not surprising, I'm not really huge into video games, and was never into console games.

    But, I think my point is, if you have to dredge back 25 years to find an example...
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    Congrats folks. Well done. Really looking...

    Congrats folks. Well done. Really looking forward to this.
  94. I dunno, Storm King's Thunder seems pretty...

    I dunno, Storm King's Thunder seems pretty solidly in the AP mode. You have to defeat each giant type before progressing to the final destination. Same goes for Princes of the Apocolypse - why...
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    This thread contains a poll. Maybe as a turn based game I suppose. But, other...

    Maybe as a turn based game I suppose. But, other than that, how would you incorporate the plethora of "do over" style mechanics that 4e has?

    3e works fantastic as a video game - look at...
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    Um, I do disagree here. Most early modules were...

    Um, I do disagree here. Most early modules were pretty bare bones as far as content. Go to this place, kill everything there, take the treasure, go home. Not a whole lot of other stuff going on...
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    But, isn't this tautological? It's only a...

    But, isn't this tautological? It's only a "literary technique" if we are talking about literature. Doing the exact same thing in film makes it a cinimatic technique?

    Then fair enough. I...
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    This thread contains a poll. Really? I found 4e worked fantastic online. I...

    Really? I found 4e worked fantastic online. I mean in virtual tabletop play, not videogame. If you mean videogame, then, sure, 4e would blow large chunks as a videogame. It just wouldn't...
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    Just an echo, "good job" post. I am really...

    Just an echo, "good job" post. I am really enjoying these.
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    Meh. Iím far too laid back. But that being said,...

    Meh. Iím far too laid back. But that being said, while I have no problems with I roll climb, 16, thatís simply engaging mechanics. Thereís typically no need for much narration there. And my criticism...
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