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    lowkey13, to a much greater extent than you might...

    lowkey13, to a much greater extent than you might imagine, I largely agree with much of your recent postings here, but because of your sarcastic and antagonistic style, I have lost any desire to...
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    Histrionic much? Look, if you find this so "very...

    Histrionic much? Look, if you find this so "very tiring," what, then, is the purpose of your reentry into the discussion every few hundred posts? Clearly you must derive something from this...
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    Aye, but for the context of this discussion,...

    Aye, but for the context of this discussion, pemerton pretty clearly describes from the beginning (I would argue, though others, like hawkeyefan, have framed this as almost from the beginning, i.e.,...
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    Well, of course, and I agree this is why we will...

    Well, of course, and I agree this is why we will never agree on the argument: because of the definitions. Context matters, especially when it comes to such nebulous concepts as "literary/literature."...
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    I did you one better. Earlier I linked to an...

    I did you one better. Earlier I linked to an examination by Terry Eagleton, a leading literary theorist, on why the discipline of literary studies itself wrestles with the impossibility of an...
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    Uncritical advocacy may not add anything at all....

    Uncritical advocacy may not add anything at all. But critical analysis and discussion can help sharpen the focus of what separates the activity of RPGing from other endeavors. This is not to say that...
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    You are correct that lowkey13 keeps asserting...

    You are correct that lowkey13 keeps asserting this. But you are both wrong in your characterization of pemerton's position. Many times now he has articulated that all things being equal, literary...
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    For my part, the answer to this question is yes,...

    For my part, the answer to this question is yes, the collection of words that best invites the players to action, directly and explicitly, is the collection of words best suited to convey the...
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    Attempting to pigeonhole "literary" or...

    Attempting to pigeonhole "literary" or "literature" into objective, unassailable categories is a fool's errand. As hawkeyefan points out several times, pemerton has been consistent in his use of a...
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    Are you familiar with Posterazor...

    Are you familiar with Posterazor? It may take a bit of fiddling to get each map to exactly 1" squares, but it does precisely what you want.
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    I think you may be mistaking the premise of this...

    I think you may be mistaking the premise of this thread. pemerton began it, I believe, to foster discussion and analysis, not to solve something and provide closure.
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    In the early stages of play, before the two PCs'...

    In the early stages of play, before the two PCs' trajectories coincide, how much of your session was dedicated to each PC's story, and how did you manage splitting this time at the table?
  13. True enough. But it's a hill some are prepared to...

    True enough. But it's a hill some are prepared to die upon!
  14. Thanks for the response; I don't find it lacking...

    Thanks for the response; I don't find it lacking in details in the least.

    If I were to summarize your view, I guess it would be something like the sequential narrative mirroring the sequencing of...
  15. Totally. I'm just curious as to *why* he holds...

    Totally. I'm just curious as to *why* he holds these preferences. Y'know: the unexamined life and all that (or, possibly, examined and well considered)...
  16. Why? Considering all that has been written here,...

    Why? Considering all that has been written here, why do you insist this somehow adds to your sense of realism in the game?
  17. This necessitates a very specific kind of TTRPG,...

    This necessitates a very specific kind of TTRPG, I think. I don't see how Jenga-as-arbiter in this fashion could be implemented for a traditional D&D game, for example. Further, I agree that if the...
  18. Good write up! And I've heard about the above...

    Good write up! And I've heard about the above mechanic before but never seen it spelled out. How have you (and others) applied Jenga to resolution mechanics in TTRPGs? I'm intrigued by the mounting...
  19. Ah, I see: this is formalized through rolls...

    Ah, I see: this is formalized through rolls rather than freeform narrative building. That is quite different than DW's collaborative campaign building.
  20. Do you see this setting creation as fundamentally...

    Do you see this setting creation as fundamentally different than the Dungeon World method of shared creation at the game's outset, particularly as that outlined in The Perilous Wilds?

    In any...
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    In a recent game, our second session, in fact,...

    In a recent game, our second session, in fact, one PC hit negative bloodied value in HPs (in 4E, this means death) during a tough fight with a homebrewed solo. Because of particularly poor rolls on...
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    I wonder if you might, good sir, be kind enough...

    I wonder if you might, good sir, be kind enough to post a specific example from your game that illustrates this. I find the game to be unparalleled in the way that this is true, and I believe the...
  23. I second Numidius 's suggestion; though it's been...

    I second Numidius 's suggestion; though it's been quite a few years (maybe 20?) since I read them, I have very fond memories of relishing them. In fact, they even helped me understand why Vancian...
  24. You guys keep doing you. The posting history...

    You guys keep doing you. The posting history makes clear what's what.
  25. At this point, I hope we all might be less...

    At this point, I hope we all might be less concerned with attacking the troll with fire than not feeding the troll, defined by Wikipedia as one who "In Internet slang [...] starts quarrels or upsets...
  26. QFT. This grows tiresome and resembles baiting or...

    QFT. This grows tiresome and resembles baiting or bullying more than debate and analysis.
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    This is incorrect. 4E *encourages* improvised...

    This is incorrect. 4E *encourages* improvised moves that make use of terrain, force movement, etc. Dynamic tactical combat *relies* on such, in fact.

    From the DMG, pg. 42: "Example: Shiera the...
  28. As I said in my initial post (last year): you...

    As I said in my initial post (last year): you *infer* that others are twisting words, so you deliberately twist words. I have no patience for nonsense like that. Participate in good faith, or don't...
  29. No, Max. I believed that about you before that...

    No, Max. I believed that about you before that post. It only confirmed it.
  30. Hahahahaha. Oh, man! You're killing it...

    Hahahahaha.



    Oh, man! You're killing it tonight!
  31. Feel better, Brendan! I may disagree with you on...

    Feel better, Brendan! I may disagree with you on this and other issues, but I certainly don't wish you ill!
  32. I really can't speak to what you do or don't...

    I really can't speak to what you do or don't understand, Max. But I can state with confidence that Lanefan's posts, in general and in this specific instance, demonstrate that he filters his...
  33. Right. And this is a huge difference between...

    Right. And this is a huge difference between player-facing and GM-facing games. Exposure to more than one of these categories might help you see this, Lanefan.
  34. You find it odd that, in a thread analyzing the...

    You find it odd that, in a thread analyzing the parallels between orcs and colonialist progaganda with regard to racial stereotyping, you make repeated calls for moderation and I posted one of the...
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    Um, did you see this thread, currently sitting...

    Um, did you see this thread, currently sitting three below this one here.

    In short, you should be able to sign up again following the steps outlined therein.
  36. But this avoids the other part of my post, which...

    But this avoids the other part of my post, which you elided: your commitment to the single vision of a particular system (houseruled 1E D&D, right?) and resolute avoidance of other game systems with...
  37. For sure, and, in fact, I though about going back...

    For sure, and, in fact, I though about going back and editing my language immediately after posting. When I say "lack of serious intent," read "said intent being the thoughtful analysis of these...
  38. May I just say how impressed I am that, despite a...

    May I just say how impressed I am that, despite a very few obviously baiting remarks intended to inflame, this conversation has remained as civil as it has! (Knocks wood.) So many similar...
  39. pemerton addresses this above, but I just wish to...

    pemerton addresses this above, but I just wish to emphasize the point: system; at least as much as genre tropes, social conventions, aesthetic preferences, etc.; necessarily restricts or unlocks how...
  40. The part of your post that precipitated mine was...

    The part of your post that precipitated mine was your charge that those of us posting in favor of the possibility of reading orcs as partaking in racist tropes, etc. are somehow disingenuously...
  41. Also, Bedrockgames, you really seem to have a...

    Also, Bedrockgames, you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder about your level of education and that of others. You shouldn't: your posts here demonstrate you to be plenty smart, and degrees...
  42. I see: you are somehow being compelled to post...

    I see: you are somehow being compelled to post the truth here. And the rest of us are likewise compelled to participate in this conversation but somehow won't represent how we really feel for fear of...
  43. OMFG! How many of these conversations have you...

    OMFG! How many of these conversations have you partaken in over the years?! It seems like you learn nothing from this interaction: you're so locked in to the parameters of D&D c. 1988. Why not...
  44. Honestly, no, I don't consider it a bit much. I...

    Honestly, no, I don't consider it a bit much. I think calls for moderation should always consider what they're actually calling for. MLK's admonition is to remember the inherent deleterious values...
  45. Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham...

    Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham City Jail":

    First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the...
  46. I highly recommend picking up a copy (digital...

    I highly recommend picking up a copy (digital and/or POD) of the Dungeon World supplement The Perilous Wilds. There is great general advice about creating cohesive naming systems in a fantasy game,...
  47. You keep leveling this charge against pemerton,...

    You keep leveling this charge against pemerton, but if memory serves you jumped in during the initial thread at the earliest opportunity by taking offense with his posts despite the fact he used...
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    Though it has been over four years since you last...

    Though it has been over four years since you last updated this tale, Sep, that's no reason the thread shouldn't ride high atop the list of story hours. Once more, for Horatio: bump!
  49. I agree 100% with what Manbearcat writes above,...

    I agree 100% with what Manbearcat writes above, and I think this also addresses Bedrockgames's impicit critique of threads like this (a critique that, at times, has become explicit). Honest...
  50. Pitfalls of adulting...

    Pitfalls of adulting...
  51. "The 4e game will likely finish in a few months."...

    "The 4e game will likely finish in a few months."

    My, oh, my, that turned out a bit differently, what?
  52. I'm not going to be drawn into arguing nonsense,...

    I'm not going to be drawn into arguing nonsense, Max. I'm out.
  53. I refer participants who reach Aldarc's current...

    I refer participants who reach Aldarc's current level of frustration with Max back to Max's post on 21 April, 2018, here, wherein he confesses that he deliberately "twists" (his term) what others are...
  54. Wasn't working for me earlier but seems to be...

    Wasn't working for me earlier but seems to be back online now (Compendium; haven't checked CB).
  55. Actually, I think a lesson that might be learned...

    Actually, I think a lesson that might be learned is that one need not jump at every opportunity to argue nigh till doomsday with someone who expresses different preferences and viewpoints. Has your...
  56. Your perception of how this conversation has...

    Your perception of how this conversation has developed is so very different from mine. If I recall correctly, innerdude started the OP with his belief that X implementation could be mother-may-I,...
  57. Numidius, your broad descriptions of your DitV...

    Numidius, your broad descriptions of your DitV and DW play don't match any of my experiences or descriptions by others I've encountered over the years. It seems you may be operating from a very...
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    Agreed! I chuckled when I read MoutonRustique's...

    Agreed! I chuckled when I read MoutonRustique's comment but at the same time thought of your actual play reports in which the PCs, for example, leveraged their flying tower in an SC, if memory serves...
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    Well, we were supposed to play yesterday, but...

    Well, we were supposed to play yesterday, but plumbing and electrical problems at my home this weekend made that impossible, so I have more time to opine here instead. :D



    Generally, this first...
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    There has been much excellent discussion (and...

    There has been much excellent discussion (and practical ideas that came out of that discussion) already, but I want to return to this a little more if anyone is still interested:



    Over the...
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    Excellent! And probably not too different from...

    Excellent! And probably not too different from how this might actually play out at our table.

    I've been giving thought to how character Skills might be applied to the roles, Quartermaster,...
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    The videos posted to Harper's Youtube channel...

    The videos posted to Harper's Youtube channel span the development of the rules. That is, early episodes do include earlier iterations of rules still in the development (and playtest?) process, and...
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    'Twould be much appreciated. It's always useful...

    'Twould be much appreciated. It's always useful getting other perspectives on what I'm trying to do in my game, especially from those with similar sensibilities and more experience with said elements!
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    The suggestions offered herein present an...

    The suggestions offered herein present an exciting way to implement "exploration pillar" elements in a player-facing, Story Now game structured around GM scene framing, a desideratum critics of such...
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    This book is a treat to read, and I agree: there...

    This book is a treat to read, and I agree: there is much good advice on general principles that can apply across systems. I wonder, though, if and how you have implemented any of the mechanical...
  66. Anything I would add would be redundant to what...

    Anything I would add would be redundant to what Ovi and pemerton have stated already. (And probably without the keen humor of the former's post.... :) )
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    You recommended this book to me some weeks ago,...

    You recommended this book to me some weeks ago, and I held off buying it then because I wanted to support a brick-and-mortar establishment, but this is only available POD online. In any event, this...
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    Let me just say how grateful I am to have...

    Let me just say how grateful I am to have interlocutors here who help me examine my own assumptions and ways of thinking about gameplay, and further who are generous with their creativity in...
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    We decided to use the default map of the Nentir...

    We decided to use the default map of the Nentir Vale as the starting point of our game because it allows for easy implementation of the DW principle to "draw maps, [but] leave blanks": there is...
  70. Imaro, you claim this, but pemerton has engaged...

    Imaro, you claim this, but pemerton has engaged this directly upthread:




    The procedures of the game address setting DCs; yes, GM judgment is involved; no one is denying that. But the...
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    I think you misunderstand me, or perhaps I have...

    I think you misunderstand me, or perhaps I have misrepresented myself. I have no script in play, as GM, though I am speculating about potential scenarios and their range of outcomes. However, the...
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    I can see why you might feel this way, and the...

    I can see why you might feel this way, and the interlude, or "color," is certainly one way to handle it. (If I may presume, perhaps this is how pemerton usually handles such details in his game?...
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    On the one hand, I'm looking for ways to expand...

    On the one hand, I'm looking for ways to expand my current experience and thinking about how to utilize SCs for travel in general. On the other hand, this is going to come up in the next session or...
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    Yes, Heroic Tier, currently level 2. The PCs,...

    Yes, Heroic Tier, currently level 2.

    The PCs, builds and goals:

    Half-Elf Vestige Warlock of the Raven Queen, Ghost of the Past, Vistani heritage; a lesser grandson of House Markelhay...
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    Failure stakes for a travel Skill Challenge

    In short, I wish to reflect the dangers of travel in a "Points of Light" setting in early Heroic tier via the Skill Challenge mechanic and not simply color. Even though the PCs travel along a road,...
  76. No one? Really? I think part of the problem here...

    No one? Really? I think part of the problem here (generally speaking when it comes to these debates) is that some of us do enjoy very much interrogating our own and other styles to better understand...
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    This is persuasive. I certainly intend the latter!

    This is persuasive. I certainly intend the latter!
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    No doubt! In our second session, the PC dropped...

    No doubt! In our second session, the PC dropped to negative Bloodied value in the combat against Kalarel-reanimated-as-a-wight. (In one of these threads hereabouts I have a conversation about said...
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    Thanks, Joshua, for the input! Totally agreed. In...

    Thanks, Joshua, for the input! Totally agreed. In this case, the PCs are second level and without any good save granting abilities (the Vestige Warlock can opt in to King Elidyr as his pact boon),...
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    Thanks, my countrified sheep friend! In my first...

    Thanks, my countrified sheep friend! In my first draft, I had the check as a saving throw but then changed it. You're probably right that it just works better as a saving throw.

    As to (A) above,...
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    You have All the Best Ideas (TM)! I...

    You have All the Best Ideas (TM)!



    I suppose you mean that the modifier to the Engagement is a modifier to the following?



    What you propose here is far simpler, more streamlined, and more...
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    Homebrewed Curse

    The following is a hack of the Injury Deck optional rules in Dungeon 204 and the Disease track subsystem. It is intended as a fun way to implement the lasting effects of a brutal wound received from...
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    Thanks for the response! We have not,...

    Thanks for the response!



    We have not, having gotten in only one, short session since I slapped this idea together after a morning of musing. My concerns include offering sufficient diversity...
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    Rules Compendium page 159: the chart under...

    Rules Compendium page 159: the chart under section 3: Complexity.
  85. XP for a clever thread title!

    XP for a clever thread title!
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    I should add that the overarching play philosophy...

    I should add that the overarching play philosophy usually implemented in discussions of 4E, particularly when it comes to Skill Challenges, is fail forward. That is to say, if the party fails the SC,...
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    Four. The party must succeed at 4 primary skill...

    Four. The party must succeed at 4 primary skill tests before accruing 3 failures in a Complexity 1 SC.




    Hopefully this explication from poster Manbearcat can provide some clarity for you:
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    My preference too. Though it's also where I have...

    My preference too. Though it's also where I have the vast majority of my play experience. I need to read through the Neverwinter book thoroughly; to this point, I've just skimmed some sections.
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    Were those levels early Heroic? The general...

    Were those levels early Heroic? The general consensus among the Char Op community was that many of the Essentials classes worked fine in Heroic tier but began breaking down in Paragon tier and...
  90. Aren't we getting into potato, potahto territory...

    Aren't we getting into potato, potahto territory here, by which you're really discussing the same thing but with different built-in preferences?
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    Or convert them to a swarm in this scenario.

    Or convert them to a swarm in this scenario.
  92. Replies
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    That was the design intent. Delivering, on that...

    That was the design intent. Delivering, on that promise, however.... (Most Essentials classes are vastly underpowered compared to their counterparts, and, quite frankly, some are virtually...
  93. Group Brainstorming: Drow Surface Slavers

    ... or Many Brains are better than one.

    The scenario--a PC has been granted a boon from her goddess Sehanine (avowed enemy of Lolth) in return for a geas: put an end to the abduction and enforced...
  94. I don't see why not. I've only ever seen the game...

    I don't see why not. I've only ever seen the game played with a relatively small group of constant players, but there is nothing in the rules to suggest this is the only mode.
  95. Good stuff, Aldarc. And kudos for the Lloyd...

    Good stuff, Aldarc. And kudos for the Lloyd Alexander reference!
  96. Blades is fascinating in that not only do players...

    Blades is fascinating in that not only do players create their individual PCs, but also collectively they choose a crew for the entire party's shared enterprises, a kind of party character sheet, if...
  97. Great to see you back, pemerton! If I recall...

    Great to see you back, pemerton! If I recall correctly, you have been traveling for some extended period? Hope it was a blast!



    I have very little to add to what you write here, except that one...
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    Though I don't think 4E adventures run well "out...

    Though I don't think 4E adventures run well "out of the tin," especially when it comes to prescripted Skill Challenges, Reavers of Harkenwold (DM's Kit) and Madness at Gardmore Abbey were two...
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    Both, honestly. I'm not looking for super...

    Both, honestly. I'm not looking for super optimization but rather a cool & flavorful item that has mechanics the player can be excited by.
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    Actually, I received a fine suggestion elsewhere:...

    Actually, I received a fine suggestion elsewhere:

    Power (Polymorph) Daily (Immediate Interrupt)
    Trigger: You take damage from an attack.

    Effect: You transform into a cloud of screaming ravens...
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