Vitriolic Sphere (Complete Arcane) Question

Ayrk · Nov 28, 2005

Hello,

So last night our resident sorcerer dropped this spell on some bad guys. We read it and read it and became confused on one point.

The description of the spell says it does xd4 damage in a 10' radius. The affected target then makes a Reflex save. If they fail they take 6d4 next round and 3d4 the round after, with each of those allowing a Reflex save for half.

Our question was, is there no Reflex save for the initial xd4 damage? I can't think of any area affect spell that did not offer a Reflex save, but after reading and rereading the not quite clear description, it appears that it automatically hits everything in the area.

Has anyone encountered this? Am I missing something?

Thanks.

Ayrk

Shin Okada · Nov 28, 2005

The spell's "saving throw" line says "Reflex negates and Reflex half; see text." So I guess, someone in the spell's area can immediately make a save, and if he succeeds, he negates all the effects of the spell. So,

Round 1:
When the spell is cast, possible subject makes a reflex save. If he succeeds, he will not be affected by the spell at all. If he fails, he takes xd4 damages and the spell effect continues in the next round.

round 2:
Someone who has failed the initial reflex save makes another reflex save. If he succeeds, he takes half of 6d4 damages and the spell effect stops for him at this moment. If he fails, he takes full 6d4 damages and he spell effect continues in the next round.

round 3:
Someone who has failed the first and the second reflex saves makes another reflex save. If he succeeds, he takes half of 3d4 damages. If he fails, he takes full 3d4 damages.

Infiniti2000 · Nov 28, 2005

Not having the book with me, but what do the Target, Effect, or Area lines say?

Shin Okada · Nov 28, 2005

Infiniti2000 said:
Not having the book with me, but what do the Target, Effect, or Area lines say?

Area : 10-ft-radius burst

Infiniti2000 · Nov 28, 2005

Thanks. That means there's no "affected target" (as per Target). The spell must be placed on a grid intersection. Is this spell balanced, either under or over? Strangely, no one has ever used it in my campaign, so I have no personal experience with it.

Shin Okada · Nov 28, 2005

I don't have personal experience, too.

This is a 5th-level spell with very small area. And it seems that the initial save negates all the damages. It inflicts up to 9+6+3=18d4 (average 45) damages in total at CL9. But only when a victim fails in all the 3 saves. At CL of 15, it inflicts up to 15+6+3=21d4 (average 52.5) damages in total. Average damage is equal to 15d6. And most xd6 spells have much wider area. The only true advantage of this spell seems to be "Spell Resistance: No".

In overall, this spell is OK, or maybe slightly underpowered, I guess.

Ayrk · Nov 28, 2005

I compared it to cone of cold and it seems slightly more powerful.

The save text saying "Reflex negates and Reflex half; see text" is where all the problems lie, because the text only talks about saving to negate the round 2 and 3 damage and then if that fails a save for half damage can be made each round.

As it stands, you can get a guarenteed xd4 damage because there is no reflex save for the initial attack, but I want to make sure.

ARandomGod · Nov 28, 2005

Ayrk said:
I compared it to cone of cold and it seems slightly more powerful.

The save text saying "Reflex negates and Reflex half; see text" is where all the problems lie, because the text only talks about saving to negate the round 2 and 3 damage and then if that fails a save for half damage can be made each round.

As it stands, you can get a guarenteed xd4 damage because there is no reflex save for the initial attack, but I want to make sure.

Without reading the exact text to be sure, what you've posted so far does seem to indicate that there is an initial blast with a xd4 no save, followed by a possible save in rounds 2 and 3.

Edit: "I compared it to cone of cold and it seems slightly more powerful."

Cone of cold is widely regarded as relatively underpowered in the damage dealling area for it's spell level. At least amongst people I know who debate spell levels.

Shin Okada · Nov 28, 2005

Ayrk said:
I compared it to cone of cold and it seems slightly more powerful.

The save text saying "Reflex negates and Reflex half; see text" is where all the problems lie, because the text only talks about saving to negate the round 2 and 3 damage and then if that fails a save for half damage can be made each round.

Actually, the text says those saves are for "for half damage" and it says, "if an affected creature succeeds on its second reflex save, it takes no acid damage in the third round". So,

1: It is obvious that there is an "first" save in the initial round.
2: No word "negates" are used for describing the saves on 2nd and 3rd round. Those saves are described "for half damage". So "reflex negates" should be refer to the 1st save.

Ayrk · Nov 28, 2005

Here is the bulk of the text for the spell:

Vitriolic Sphere
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]
Level: 5
Components: V,S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Ten foot radius burst
Target: burst area
Duration: Instantaneous (see text)
Saving Throw: Reflex negates and reflex half (see text)
Spell Resistance: No
Conjures a sizzling emerald sphere that drenches all within the area with a
potent acid. Affected creatures take 1d4 damage per caster level (maximum of
15d4) and must succeed in a Reflex save or take damage in successive 2
rounds. (6d4 damage of damage in second round and 3d4 damage in the third round).
Both rounds of continuing damage are subject to Reflex saves for half.

Vitriolic Sphere (Complete Arcane) Question

Ayrk

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Shin Okada

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Infiniti2000

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Shin Okada

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Infiniti2000

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Shin Okada

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Ayrk

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ARandomGod

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Shin Okada

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Ayrk

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