Am I reading this wrong or did the FAQ get it wrong?

wildstarsreach · Dec 29, 2006

I'm playing a duskblade and came across Extra spell in the complete arcane. It looks like you could get an extra spell not in your list. How ever the FAQ on page 18 says no to a warmage wanting a spell out of his list.

The text seem fairly contradictory to this ruling. Here it is.

Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one level lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Thus, a 4th level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire. For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra spell is generally used to learn specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

The question is since the warmage, duskblade, sorcerer are spontaneous casters, does this mean that they only get spells within lists that they have access to and that wizards could take class specific spells that they wouldn't normally get?

SteelDraco · Dec 29, 2006

The unspoken part of the feat is that you can't add a spell from outside your class's spell list. That's what the FAQ addresses, and that's why a Duskblade, Warmage, and Dread Necromancer can't do anything with it. They already know all the spells on their class spell list, and so taking this feat isn't going to do them any good.

Would it be unbalancing to ignore that restriction? Probably not - feats are precious, and there aren't a whole lot of spells that would be deeply unbalancing if gained in this manner. I could see a warmage who's learned the Cure Light Wounds spell, for example, since fighting is what he does - it makes sense for someone in those conditions to learn about healing.

The bit about wizards, IMO, refers to learning a spell that you can't find a copy of to put into your spellbooks. Why you'd do that, rather than waiting until you level and putting it into your spellbook then, I'm not sure.

Andre · Dec 29, 2006

wildstarsreach said:
I'm playing a duskblade and came across Extra spell in the complete arcane. It looks like you could get an extra spell not in your list. How ever the FAQ on page 18 says no to a warmage wanting a spell out of his list.

The text seem fairly contradictory to this ruling. Here it is.

Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one level lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Thus, a 4th level sorcerer (maximum spell level 2nd) gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire. For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra spell is generally used to learn specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

The question is since the warmage, duskblade, sorcerer are spontaneous casters, does this mean that they only get spells within lists that they have access to and that wizards could take class specific spells that they wouldn't normally get?

There is another thread on this, but to repeat my response there:

The FAQ does not contradict the feat description, it clarifies it. The feat doesn't say explicitly that it can be used to select a non-class spell. It simply doesn't explicitly say you can't. But if you interpret a feat to allow anything it doesn't specifically disallow, you end up with truly absurd situations.

AuraSeer · Dec 29, 2006

You're reading it wrong. The feat grants an extra spell known, from your class list. It does not add spells to your class list.

Say a sorcerer reaches 6th level and has two 2nd-level spells: web and blur. He can take Extra Spell to learn an additional 2nd-level spell, but that must be taken from the Sor/Wiz list. He can pick up rope trick or acid arrow or any other 2nd-level sorcerer spell, but he cannot gain cure moderate wounds because it's not on his list.

Warmages are different. They can already cast every spell on their class list. They do not have a limited number of "spells known," so the Extra Spell feat does not help them at all.

delericho · Dec 29, 2006

SteelDraco said:
The unspoken part of the feat is that you can't add a spell from outside your class's spell list. That's what the FAQ addresses, and that's why a Duskblade, Warmage, and Dread Necromancer can't do anything with it. They already know all the spells on their class spell list, and so taking this feat isn't going to do them any good.

That is my interpretation also.

Would it be unbalancing to ignore that restriction? Probably not - feats are precious, and there aren't a whole lot of spells that would be deeply unbalancing if gained in this manner. I could see a warmage who's learned the Cure Light Wounds spell, for example, since fighting is what he does - it makes sense for someone in those conditions to learn about healing.

This is probably reasonable, too. However, it would be important to note that if the spell exists on the class spell list and also some other list at a different level (such as Dominate Person being Bard 4 but Sorcerer/Wizard 5), the level assigned in the 'native' list would have to take precedence.

Also, the DM would need to keep an eye on this to eliminate abuses, but that's a given anyway.

GeorgeFields · Dec 29, 2006

SteelDraco said:
The bit about wizards, IMO, refers to learning a spell that you can't find a copy of to put into your spellbooks. Why you'd do that, rather than waiting until you level and putting it into your spellbook then, I'm not sure.

And taking the feat means you just gained a level anyway. IMO, pointless for wizards.

el-remmen · Dec 29, 2006

/mod Moving to rules. ..

Vyvyan Basterd · Dec 29, 2006

GeoFFields said:
And taking the feat means you just gained a level anyway. IMO, pointless for wizards.

Not if there are three spells that the player considers to be critical to the party's survival right at that point when the resources aren't immediately available to learn more than the two spells he gets for levelling. I agree this would only be in extreme circumstances and the feat is really meant for Sorcs.

FoxWander · Dec 29, 2006

My interpretation of this case is that the FAQ is wrong. The bit about the extra spell being limited to your class spell list is wholly made up by the FAQ. Nothing in the text of the feat, in any way, implies that the extra spell is limited in this way. In fact, it implies just the opposite by mentioning what a wizard might use the feat for.

For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra spell is generally used to learn specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research

Since, by the RAW, at level-up a wizard can add ANY spell, of his highest spell level or lower, from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to his spell book, the ONLY spells a wizard "lacks access to" would be spells NOT on the sorc/wiz spell list. This implies that Extra Spell is NOT limited to spells from your class spell list.

Note that I say 'by the RAW', because specific campaigns might limit the sorc/wiz spells the wizard can freely add to his spell book at level-up and thus the FAQ interpretation of the feat would make it useful for gaining whatever spell those wizards might be barred from automatically learning. But this would be a campaign specific thing and thus an individual DM ruling (just as spell research would be), not the RAW which is the assumed state for published feats and such.

wildstarsreach · Dec 29, 2006

FoxWander said:
My interpretation of this case is that the FAQ is wrong. The bit about the extra spell being limited to your class spell list is wholly made up by the FAQ. Nothing in the text of the feat, in any way, implies that the extra spell is limited in this way. In fact, it implies just the opposite by mentioning what a wizard might use the feat for.
Since, by the RAW, at level-up a wizard can add ANY spell, of his highest spell level or lower, from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to his spell book, the ONLY spells a wizard "lacks access to" would be spells NOT on the sorc/wiz spell list. This implies that Extra Spell is NOT limited to spells from your class spell list.

Note that I say 'by the RAW', because specific campaigns might limit the sorc/wiz spells the wizard can freely add to his spell book at level-up and thus the FAQ interpretation of the feat would make it useful for gaining whatever spell those wizards might be barred from automatically learning. But this would be a campaign specific thing and thus an individual DM ruling (just as spell research would be), not the RAW which is the assumed state for published feats and such.

I'm in agreement since this uses much closer to the specific wording. A implies B, B implies C, A therefore C. It follows logic of what they write.

I wish that when they write feats, they would would be more specific and put what they intend to restrict.

Am I reading this wrong or did the FAQ get it wrong?

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