Can novels make or break a setting for you?

BadMojo · Feb 26, 2007

Teflon Billy said:
It, unfortuntely, doesn't much affect the reality of the situation...that RPG fiction isn't generally very good (either empirically or anecdotally).

Is most fantasy/sci fi, in general, considered good? Can most fiction even be considered good? I've had the misfortunte to read quite a bit of bad fiction in my 32 (mostly lucid) years. It wasn't limited to one specific genre.

Personally, I find a lot of the early Realms fiction to be really awful writing. I didn't care for the early Dragonlance books. I do think there are some really good writers popping who have been popping up in the Eberron and Forgotten Realms lines lately (I don't read Dragonlance, so I'm not familiar with those authors).

Some of the writers have had success with other fantasy works that weren't shared world. Does the switch to the "dark side" completely destroy their writing ability? From what I've heard, Wizards actually has a fairly light editorial hand with their fiction.

For what it's worth, Paul Crilley, IMO, is another great author whose first book for Wizards is hitting shelves in a few months. Based on his short story in the Eberron anthology, "Tales of the Last War", it looks like it's going to be a good one.

Teflon Billy · Feb 26, 2007

BadMojo said:
Is most fantasy/sci fi, in general, considered good? Can most fiction even be considered good? I've had the misfortunte to read quite a bit of bad fiction in my 32 (mostly lucid) years. It wasn't limited to one specific genre.

True enough. I mean of course there is bad fiction out there that isn't RPG based. It just seems that you have a much higher percentage of bad stuff if you go for the novels pubished for RPG marketing purposes than if you just went with average Fantasy Novels.

I don't pretend to undersand why, but it has been my (extensive) experience, and I've found that not only is my experience not unique, I am in the vast majority of those expressing an opinion.

Personally, I find a lot of the early Realms fiction to be really awful writing. I didn't care for the early Dragonlance books.

Agreed.

I do think there are some really good writers popping who have been popping up in the Eberron and Forgotten Realms lines lately (I don't read Dragonlance, so I'm not familiar with those authors).

I haven't really been reading any RPG fiction of late (you know how it is: 401 times bitten, 400 and twice shy

) bu I have no problem imagining that Keith Baker could produce a good piece of fiction.

Some of the writers have had success with other fantasy works that weren't shared world. Does the switch to the "dark side" completely destroy their writing ability? From what I've heard, Wizards actually has a fairly light editorial hand with their fiction.

I don't recall enough exmples to either agree with you nor consider it more than an "exception that proves the rule".

For what it's worth, Paul Crilley, IMO, is another great author whose first book for Wizards is hitting shelves in a few months. Based on his short story in the Eberron anthology, "Tales of the Last War", it looks like it's going to be a good one.

Enjoy!

Honestly, I'm not trying to deride anyone's enjoyment of an author's work here (lord knows my taste in movies is considered--at best--questionabl by most folks I know) but the original poster asked a question, I answered it and am elaborating on the theme.

So yeah, if you like Drizz't, go nuts...there are a ton of books out there for you

PaulKemp · Feb 26, 2007

Teflon Billy said:
I think the last one I read all the way through was a re-reading of Lone Wolf, by Nigel Findlay.

About a year ago I grabbed a Gord the Rogue at a used book store book for a bus trip and liked it quite a bit.

I got a collection of Warhammer Fantasy short stories called "Ignorant Armies" that I thought was pretty good as well.

The rest, pretty much awful from top-to-bottom.

The first and worst few I read were those Crystal Shard/ Streams of Silver things starring the Heroes of the Forgotten Realms: Bruenor, Wulfgar, Drizzt...that bunch.

Awful.

Equally awful were the Dark Sun novels (which wouldn't have had to be very good to get me to like them, but couldn't even pull off "marginal"))

The FR novels where that hot girl with the magic tattoo and her extra-dimesional lizardman Paladin bodyguard didn't get finished.

Neither did the ones where Clerical magic went away.

I figure my life will be short enough without wasting time on stuff that is still bad after a few chapters.

RPG novels fall into that category a vast majority of the time.

TeflonBilly,

All of the titles you mentioned are fifteen year old books. Were you to look (or ask around) you might find some books to your liking these days.

In any event, imagine this: a reader picks up Feist's Mithgar work and Brooks' Shanarra work (I'm picking these two because I think they share some similarities in style, tone, and subject matter) and likes neither. On the basis of that, our reader concludes that all fantasy fiction is rubbish.

The problem with that conclusion (at least I think it's a problem) is that our reader has now missed out on R. Scott Bakker, Scott Lynch, Elizabeth Bear, and a host of others whose spec fic is as different from Feist and Brooks as night is from day.

Similarly, there is no reason to group shared world/tie-in fiction together in a mass and conclude, based on a bad experience with a group of books fifteen years ago, that all such books are "bad." They aren't. Authors differ tremendously in terms of style, tone, talent, etc.

I suppose my position is this: I don't mind (much) when a reader criticizes my work. But I'd like the criticism to be based on my work in particular, not on the fact that it belongs to a category generally.

Paul

Teflon Billy · Feb 26, 2007

PaulKemp said:
I suppose my position is this: I don't mind (much) when a reader criticizes my work. But I'd like the criticism to be based on my work in particular, not on the fact that it belongs to a category generally.

Paul

Fair enough....tell me the title you are most proud of (that's in paperback) and I'll go grab it today.

Know though that commentary will follow in about a week

PaulKemp · Feb 26, 2007

Teflon Billy said:
Fair enough....tell me the title you are most proud of (that's in paperback) and I'll go grab it today.

Know though that commentary will follow in about a week

I would welcome the comments.

I think my best book is my most recent, Shadowbred. It builds off of events from a previous trilogy, but I think (based on what I've heard from other readers who came to this novel without having read the previous trilogy) that it stands alone fairly well. There will be a few references to events from the previous trilogy, but I'll hope things are clear from the context.

EDIT: Here is a the product listing of Shadowbred. It has a link on the page to the pdf of the opening chapter (note: not "excerpt one" which is from later in the book and is very short; but the pdf below that). Before you spend any coin, have a read and see if it's to your taste. I know it's only a chapter, but it will give you a feel for my style.

Voadam · Feb 26, 2007

I started a thread to share what RPG fiction you found enjoyable reading and would recommend to others looking for good stuff in the genre. favorites

kenobi65 · Feb 26, 2007

I voted "no".

While there have been times when I've picked up novels solely because they were connected to a game or setting I was interested in at the time, I don't think that the existence (or lack thereof) of the novels had any impact on my interest in the setting itself.

As a result, I've read some really wretched fiction. (Some that come to mind at the moment were the first few Magic: the Gathering novels, and the TORG novels. Lawdy, they were bad.)

I've read some fairly-enjoyable RPG fiction, as well (I do like Bob Salvatore's FR stuff, though I haven't read all of it). But, I have to say, I've read a lot of fantasy and sci-fi in my life, and if I look at the stuff that was really awful, most of it was either RPG fiction, or movie-inspired fiction (e.g., certain Trek or SW novels).

Teflon Billy · Feb 27, 2007

PaulKemp said:
I would welcome the comments.

I think my best book is my most recent, Shadowbred.

OK, I am back from the used book store and amongst the 300 or so D&D novels they had, there were only two by you (which is probably a good sign

), neither of them was Shadowbred...so I grabbed Twilight Falling.

I hope it's something you like.

RangerWickett · Feb 27, 2007

I think having one fantasy series, and a brief one at that, can help a setting. It can establish the tone, and make the place come alive.

But this business of dozens of books? Not my cup of tea, sadly.

PaulKemp · Feb 27, 2007

Teflon Billy said:
OK, I am back from the used book store and amongst the 300 or so D&D novels they had, there were only two by you (which is probably a good sign), neither of them was Shadowbred...so I grabbed Twilight Falling.

I hope it's something you like.

It is. Twilight Falling is book one of the Erevis Cale Trilogy (that is the Trilogy that precedes the next series that begins with Shadowbred) and I think it is a good representation of my writing. And, on the plus side, if you like it there are two more novels already released that follow on its heels.

Paul

EDIT: FYI: Two books featuring Cale (the protagonist) preceded TF, but those past events are referenced in context and should give you no difficulties.