Tome of Battle - Book of 9 Swords

Fenes

First Post
We're about to add Bo9S to our regular (if house rule-heavy) D&D 3.X campaign. The characters (level 16) will be converted, so can be rebuild from the ground up. Since all PCs are basically melee classes (Barbarian 13/rogue 3, Fighter/weaponmaster, Fighter/Blade Dancer/Cleric1), I don't expect any balance issues between melee and magic. Therea renot many "christmas tree" magic items, no stat booster or save booster, not many magical armor, but every character has a powerful magical weapon.

We're pretty flexible with the rules and stats, and players can make retroactive changes to their characters as desired (swapping levels, feats, etc.) during the campaign (which has been running since years, we don't level up much if at all anymore, maybe once every one or two year).

So, I was curious about your experiences with Bo9S. How's running combat, and what would one have to watch out for, both as player and as DM? Broken Combos, and such, as well as balancing the different classes of the book.
 

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Nifft

Penguin Herder
The main broken thing in ToB:Bo9S is White Raven Tactics. Amend it to a single move or attack rather than an additional full-round action, and make it only apply to one ally (not yourself).

Otherwise, things are mostly fine. There are a few aberrantly high DCs, and some Charge maneuvers which could technically be abused, but nothing else is easily game-breaking.

Cheers, -- N
 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
The vast majority of the book is pretty straightforward to DM. Like Nifft said, White Raven Tactics needs to be more like snake's swiftness than 3.0 haste.

I'd also recommend that you don't allow the combination of touch melee attacks with strikes. Wraithstrike, heartseeking amulet, and deep impact are way too brutal when combined with things like Diamond Nightmare Blade. Just don't go there...
-blarg
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
blargney the second said:
I'd also recommend that you don't allow the combination of touch melee attacks with strikes. Wraithstrike, heartseeking amulet, and deep impact are way too brutal when combined with things like Diamond Nightmare Blade. Just don't go there...
I concur with this. The majority of those aren't necessarily problems with the ToB stuff, but rather the combination of the ToB assumptions with the assumptions of those other abilities.

(Though I wouldn't allow wraithstrike at all, I do allow Deep Impact, and I do prohibit the combination.)

Cheers, -- N
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
Nifft said:
The main broken thing in ToB:Bo9S is White Raven Tactics. Amend it to a single move or attack rather than an additional full-round action, and make it only apply to one ally (not yourself).

This would make it far too weak, wouldn't it? If it granted the attack/move on the initiator's turn, right away, sure. But as written, it's their whole turn, and then they have to wait a full round before they can act again. I'd say only allow it to affect any one person once any given combat. And yeah, no self-use.
 
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Nifft

Penguin Herder
StreamOfTheSky said:
This would make it far too weak, wouldn't it? If it granted the attack/move on the initiator's turn, right waway, sure. But as written, it's their whole turn, and then they have to wait a full round before they can act again. I'd say only allow it to affect any one person once any given combat. And yeah, no self-use.
Right, the revised version shouldn't change anyone's Initiative. It should just grant an immediate single attack or move.

Cheers, -- N
 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son
Nifft said:
I concur with this. The majority of those aren't necessarily problems with the ToB stuff, but rather the combination of the ToB assumptions with the assumptions of those other abilities.

(Though I wouldn't allow wraithstrike at all, I do allow Deep Impact, and I do prohibit the combination.)
That sums it up nicely. For the same reasons, Emerald Razor is completely fine - it doesn't combine into Devastator.
 

Bad Paper

First Post
I use a box of obsolete business cards and write each maneuver on the back. Having physical cards to keep track of maneuvers makes everything much much much easier. (And having them be of uniform size helps in random draws of crusaders' maneuvers) Furthermore, I make index-card "tents" for stances, and prop the active stance in front of me. It's two-sided, see, so everyone can tell what the active stance is.

Combat: One thing that threatens to become a problem is keeping track of swift/immediate actions, since using an immediate now can prohibit changing a stance later. I haven't run into that, but I can see it becoming a problem with an entire table of martial adepts. [I am the only one, as PC or DM, that uses Bo9S so far. It means my players hate martial adepts, and always kill them first.]

Also, as a DM, running a crusader NPC ("here, pick three cards, again") can be a pain in the ass.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
Also: Watch out for divine surge. The normal and greater version compare strangely. My player saw that and went "WTF?" and self-nerfed it from +8d8 to +4d8 - after some play, we saw that +5d8 or +6d8 would probably be fine as well (mind you, that's on 7th level). It was still useful and good.

Cheers, LT.
 


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