Small characters and weapons

LittleFuzzy · Feb 11, 2009

Is it just me, or are small characters, no matter what their stat modifiers, sub-optimal for almost all weapon-using builds? With the rogue as the obvious exception. Is there any non-rogue build where a Small race doesn't have noticeably lower damage, particularly in the heroic tier, before Light Blade Precision?

One of my friends and I were planning on doing some mini-adventures to explore some of the new stuff coming with PHB2 and we had the idea of making an all-Small group, but I'm not seeing a way to make it work with the weapon restrictions on Small size. I'd already tried a halfling Archer and became frustrated after AV further raised the damage disparity between what I could do and what medium races could. Small weapon rangers are in the same boat since they should be able to ignore the offhand restriction but are forced back into it because there's just one bloody melee weapon in the game that isn't either offhand or versatile.

Did WotC truly intend for Small races to be gimp in half the classes, regardless of their stats? WHY? What game purpose does it serve?

Don Incognito · Feb 11, 2009

small characters are optimal if you're going to multi-class to rogue, as they'll probably be using light blades anyway (sans rapier).

as far as i can tell, small races have racials that more than make up for their deficiencies.

frankthedm · Feb 11, 2009

LittleFuzzy said:
Did WotC truly intend for Small races to be gimp in half the classes, regardless of their stats? WHY? What game purpose does it serve?

It helps the game keep some of its credulity, which to some people is needed for the game to be playable. Small creatures swing smaller weapons.

corncob · Feb 12, 2009

frankthedm said:
It helps the game keep some of its credulity, which to some people is needed for the game to be playable. Small creatures swing smaller weapons.

Is this the same credulity that doesn't bat an eye when six-foot-tall humanoids go toe-to-toe with creature that could destroy them through sheer mass alone, yet has a conniption every time a halfling picks up a greatsword?

Because I think it is.

ForbidenMaster · Feb 12, 2009

corncob said:
Is this the same credulity that doesn't bat an eye when six-foot-tall humanoids go toe-to-toe with creature that could destroy them through sheer mass alone, yet has a conniption every time a halfling picks up a greatsword?

Because I think it is.

If they could, they would, but they cant, so I dont get your example.

yesnomu · Feb 12, 2009

...At least Scimitar Dance ought to be useful for them?

Yeah, it kinda sucks to be a halfling weapon-user. Gnomes are going to get it worse, it looks like, without even a physical stat boost. It might help versimilitude, but that's about it.

At least the AV has some good versatile military weapons, so most small weapon-users will only be a point of average damage behind per weapon die.

LittleFuzzy · Feb 12, 2009

yesnomu said:
...At least Scimitar Dance ought to be useful for them?

Yeah, it kinda sucks to be a halfling weapon-user. Gnomes are going to get it worse, it looks like, without even a physical stat boost. It might help versimilitude, but that's about it.

At least the AV has some good versatile military weapons, so most small weapon-users will only be a point of average damage behind per weapon die.

One point of average damage and, often, a point or two of AC and maybe Reflex, for not having a shield.

yesnomu · Feb 12, 2009

LittleFuzzy said:
One point of average damage and, often, a point or two of AC and maybe Reflex, for not having a shield.

Well, for halflings at least, Second Chance and Lost in the Crowd help to make up for that.

Aran Thule · Feb 12, 2009

Even if small races are missing out on a bit of damage they make up for it with utility in my opinion.

I am playing a two weapon halfling ranger(sneak of shadows) and yes it is a shame that he is limited to a short bow, but melee wise it isnt much of a handicap.
I still have the option of using two scimitars and getting scimitar dance at paragon level or using a light weapon when needed to get sneak damage.
While adventuring there have been multiple times when his size have worked to his advantage, be it using an object for full cover which medium sized creatures cannot do or the many things you can do roleplaying being half the size of the rest of the party.
Also i think it is a lot easier this way then with previous editions where weapons did different damage depending on what size they were.

When push comes to shove i guess that if you are not happy with how it works then dont play one. From my point of view i think WotC have done a good job in making an interesting and balanced race.

Smeelbo · Feb 12, 2009

Our group's halfing rogue dresses as a human orphan child, we refer to him as "The Lad," as in, "Let's send the Lad down there first, and see what happens."

I understand that for most martial builds, small characters are sub-par. Oh well. If 4E game play can't stand a little sub-optimality in the name of roleplaying, then it's not a very good RPG.

Smeelbo

Small characters and weapons

LittleFuzzy

First Post

Don Incognito

First Post

frankthedm

First Post

corncob

First Post

ForbidenMaster

Explorer

yesnomu

First Post

LittleFuzzy

First Post

yesnomu

First Post

Aran Thule

First Post

Smeelbo

First Post

Similar Threads