Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

Looking pretty good! I agree with considering Two Weapon Fighting for a feat and Craft (origami) for a skill --- both seem like must-haves.

I guess we're ready for the origami ability. The original is

Ito Chomei is known as the Paper Warrior, because he can fold and animate origami weapons. He can fold two per round (four using his special martial arts maneuver speed) and can even do so while being attacked. These devices each possess AC 8 and 15 hit points, and suffer double damage from fire. He has 14 pieces of paper. Once an item is folded, his breath enlarges it to double size. The items he can fold are:

Shield Beetle: Absorbs all damage from a single blow. Excess damage is lost.

Bee Warrior: Acts as a second level bushi, but does 1d6 points of damage.

Vipers: These have MV 6”; #AT 1; THAC0 18; Dmg 1 + poison; poison damage 2-8, save negates.

Pinwheel: Razor-sharp blades slash at legs as it rolls along the floor (#AT 1; THAC0 15; Dmg 2-5).

Leaping Locusts: Distract one foe a round, treat as a protection from good (-2 to PCs attacks, +2 to shukenja saves).

Octopus: Attacks one character within 10’. If a save vs. spells is made, the victim takes 1-4 points of damage and the octopus is destroyed. If failed, the victim takes 2-8 the first round and 3-12 in all later rounds.

An effective way to stage this is to have the origami devices coming in from different directions at different heights to create maximum PC confusion.

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(We're also going to have to get to his martial arts abilities.) First thing: he's limited by the amount of paper he has, which is 14 pieces in this encounter. I'd be in favor of randomizing that to 4d6 or so. And he's limited to 2 or 4/round. Any other daily limits? Finally, in general terms, I like the idea of using the Craft (origami) checks, but these basic forms seem pretty set, and it seems less important to give him the ability to create arbitrary forms since he's a monster (the DM can always work out additional ones in advance if desired). But what about using a check to make the origami critters tougher in some way?

freyar said:

Looking pretty good! I agree with considering Two Weapon Fighting for a feat and Craft (origami) for a skill --- both seem like must-haves.

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I'll pencil those into the Paper Warrior Working Draft.

freyar said:

(We're also going to have to get to his martial arts abilities.) First thing: he's limited by the amount of paper he has, which is 14 pieces in this encounter. I'd be in favor of randomizing that to 4d6 or so. And he's limited to 2 or 4/round. Any other daily limits? Finally, in general terms, I like the idea of using the Craft (origami) checks, but these basic forms seem pretty set, and it seems less important to give him the ability to create arbitrary forms since he's a monster (the DM can always work out additional ones in advance if desired). But what about using a check to make the origami critters tougher in some way?

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I'm reluctant to have a random daily limit of 4d6 since there's such a difference in effectiveness between 4 origami creations and 24. How about we have a daily limit based on Hit Dice - 6 plus HD would produce a usage limit equal to the original's "14 pieces". We could have it possess a random number of pieces of paper, but I'd set the minimum number to be equal to the Paper Warrior's daily usage limit. Maybe 2d4+12 pieces?

As for the Craft (origami) check that'd be fine if the Paper Warrior's skill is high enough to always hit the minimum DC.

Oh, and what sort of action is involved? The original says it can fold two pieces of paper per round (or four with speed). The Speed martial manoeuvre is equivalent to haste 1/day for up to 5 rounds, after which the martial artist must rest for 1d3 rounds. Since the Paper Warrior's undead it ought to be immune to exhaustion, so does that mean it does not need to rest after using speed?

That suggests it can fold two origamis as a full round action, or four when hasted.

So can it make a normal full attack and fold two origamis when hasted?

Is it able to fold a single origami as a swift or move action, allowing it to attack or cast a spell at the same time?

I would say it does not need to rest after using speed because it isn't alive. Also, I would think folding an origami would be a move equivalent action. However, it has to have a free hand to fold an origami so that might limit what it does when attacking as it has Two Weapon Fighting.

One other thing: you note it as casting like a cleric rather than casting like a shugenja. See OA pages 24-27. Just want to see it as close to the original as possible.

Debby said:

I would say it does not need to rest after using speed because it isn't alive.

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Yes, I'd rather it not have to rest after using its speed ability too.

Debby said:

Also, I would think folding an origami would be a move equivalent action.

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I was thinking of one of the following:

#1: The Paper Warrior can fold a single origami as a move-equivalent action, so it can fold an origami and make a standard action in the same round. It can use that standard action to fold a second origami in the same round if it wanted to.

#2: The Paper Warrior can fold a single origami as a swift action or two origamis as a move-equivalent action. That way it can full-attack and fold a single origami in the same round.

However, the original wording is vague enough the following might have been intended:

#3: The Paper Warrior can fold two origamis as a standard action.

Debby said:

However, it has to have a free hand to fold an origami so that might limit what it does when attacking as it has Two Weapon Fighting.

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Not necessarily. There's no mention of it using its hands, so maybe the pieces of paper magically fold themselves like in kubo and the two strings?

Debby said:

One other thing: you note it as casting like a cleric rather than casting like a shugenja. See OA pages 24-27. Just want to see it as close to the original as possible.

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Unfortunately the 3E Oriental Adventure has no Open Game Content so using that source's version of the Shugenja would be naughty of us. The Shukenja is a cleric variant so it's safest if we use the SRD Cleric for the spell-casting. Especially as the only Shukenja-only spells the Paper Warrior has in OA2 that doesn't have a decent match in the SRD - snake summons - isn't in the 3E Oriental Adventures.

Besides, the original 1E shukenja is a bit different from the 3E one. The 3E version picks an element to have affinity with and the 1E only gets that ability through spell selection, which the Paper Warrior didn't do - indeed, it doesn't have any elemental spells at all.

The 1E Shukenja does has some abilities the 3E version lacks:

1. Purification rituals to remove curses and ward off evil influences (gives +1 on to hit rolls and saving throws against evil spirits).
2. Meditation (each hour equals 2 hours of sleep, oblivious to hunger, thirst, heat & cold, no surprise or initiative penalties).
3. Ki ability to boost a saving throw by +3 (as many times/day as their level).

I'm thinking we can (and probably should) give the Paper Warrior abilities based on the 1E shukenja's ki strike, and maybe a "contamination" effect that enhances curses and drives away good influences. We might be better off using a SLA or feat for the latter, though.

The Meditation ability doesn't seem worth bothering with since the Paper Warrior's a sleepless undead.

I think we should stick to cleric casting, and we can add a couple of shukenja special abilities.

Back to the origami, I think I like Cleon's option 2, but then I don't think it works with haste the way we want. Of course, speed doesn't have to work like haste.

freyar said:

I think we should stick to cleric casting, and we can add a couple of shukenja special abilities.

Back to the origami, I think I like Cleon's option 2, but then I don't think it works with haste the way we want. Of course, speed doesn't have to work like haste.

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Yes, I'm thinking whatever option we end up going for we'll have to bend the haste rules to account for the double speed origami folding.

Let's just deal with the effects of the origami and then adjust speed as necessary.

So, are we agreed to 1 origami as a swift action or 2 as a move-equivalent action?

freyar said:

Let's just deal with the effects of the origami and then adjust speed as necessary.

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I suppose we could base Speed on the Choker's quickness ability rather than the haste spell, thus granting an extra action rather than an extra attack.

Quickness (Su): Although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round.

The AD&D haste spell doubles number of attacks and movement speed but specifically does NOT increase the speed of spellcasting. The 2E version also mentions it improves initiative by 2.

Note that it doesn't provide any bonuses to attack rolls, AC or saves like the 3E version of Speed. Do we want the Paper Warrior to gain those advantages when using its Speed?

Perhaps "It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round it uses speed. It can not cast spells with these extra actions, but can only perform extraordinary or supernatural actions with them."

freyar said:

So, are we agreed to 1 origami as a swift action or 2 as a move-equivalent action?

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Hmm… that means it can fold 5 origamis without speeding by spending its standard action and swift action on paper-folding.

It'll presumably be able to fold even more when using Speed.

I guess it depends how close we want it to the original.

Since this is a "solo monster" it'll need to be able to easily generate origamis for defense and offense, so I guess we want the Paper Warrior's to paper-fold fast enough for there to be a good chance of it burning through all 14 of its sheets before being felled by the PCs.

Overall I think I'm OK with option #2.

Wow, it's been a busy couple of weeks at work!

Anyway, I have some vague memory of a FAQ that says you can replace a standard action with a move but not a non-move move-equivalent action. All move-equivalent lets you do is not burn your standard action. But I'm not sure where I remember that from. I don't see it in the SRD.

But anyway, I still like 1/swift or 2/move with the choker version of speed, though perhaps there are limits on how often he can use speed. If he does nothing else, that's 7 origami in a round --- ought to be fun!

Shall we work out the abilities of each origami type? I guess the shield beetle would be the easiest, and I even have an idea that there might be a spell or wondrous item somewhere that acts similarly. But I'd basically have it remain in the Paper Warrior's space; when the next targeted attack would otherwise hit the Paper Warrior, it hits the shield beetle instead. Damage beyond the beetle's hp still affects the Warrior, but each beetle can only be used once. Can there be more than one shield beetle active at a time?

freyar said:

Wow, it's been a busy couple of weeks at work!

Anyway, I have some vague memory of a FAQ that says you can replace a standard action with a move but not a non-move move-equivalent action. All move-equivalent lets you do is not burn your standard action. But I'm not sure where I remember that from. I don't see it in the SRD.

But anyway, I still like 1/swift or 2/move with the choker version of speed, though perhaps there are limits on how often he can use speed. If he does nothing else, that's 7 origami in a round --- ought to be fun!

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One question is, do we want the ability to allow the Paper Warrior to cast two standard-action spells per round? The Choker's speed ability would let it do so.

Maybe we should have something along the lines of "this gives the paper warrior all the benefits of the haste spell. In addition, if the paper warrior folds Origami while speeded it produces twice as many origami creations as it would normally."

freyar said:

Shall we work out the abilities of each origami type? I guess the shield beetle would be the easiest, and I even have an idea that there might be a spell or wondrous item somewhere that acts similarly. But I'd basically have it remain in the Paper Warrior's space; when the next targeted attack would otherwise hit the Paper Warrior, it hits the shield beetle instead. Damage beyond the beetle's hp still affects the Warrior, but each beetle can only be used once. Can there be more than one shield beetle active at a time?

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There's nothing in the original text to indicate that it can't have multiple shield beetles running simultaneously.

I was assuming the beetle would have to put itself on the line-of-effect between an attacker and the target to interpose and block the attack.

I'm not sure it could even be in the same square as the Paper Warrior without impeding it - most of these creations are Medium sized, so it would apply the "squeezing two creatures into one square" penalties if that was how it worked.

'Course, maybe it's an exception where it's just "floating around" the Paper Warrior like a dancing shield would. Indeed, it's pretty similar to a dancing shield.

That said, I like the idea of the Paper Warrior being able to assign a beetle to shield another object or creature.